Should I go to Jazz?

[CaptDukeNukem]

I have a hard time trusting Jazz MEC to fix this…

- When there was complaining about Union members on release taking OT they removed the coworker schedule look up function
- No vote on the Sky DOH merger
- That deal included a one time payment for anyone with 12(?) YOS, when asked in the QandA why not everyone? they said the juniors got money with sky deal but that was a fraction in comparison and we were on subsidies not working
- They never explained why they waited 8 months to file the complaint with CIRB

I’m not mad at jazz management I know they probably had bupkis to do with this. I just regret going there and hope everyone avoids it. The coworkers I had at jazz were great, the planes were well maintained but that’s it. The schedule was terrible, pay was crap, and the agreement with AC broken.

The numbers speak for themselves ~1600 pilots in 2019 how many now? And now fleet reductions? No new airplanes on order….

There are logical reasons for most of the issues you raised.
I mentioned it recently to another pilot about a rep who was doing OT on days that were blocked on their schedule as ALPA days, he said he doesn’t care about that because those days are just place holders for the amount of expected time they will put in based on the roster they represent. If not, how could we expect them to pick up the phone or respond to an email unless it was on one of those days. I know, everytime I contact my rep, he gets back to me pretty quick, he doesn’t wait for the days blocked on his schedule, so I’m ok with it, as long as they are putting in the time and not sloughing off, then nothing to complain about really.
The SR integration, first of all, it was the right thing to do, we were taking over their operation and the federal labour law about the right to follow the work would have applied to this situation.
Our MEC has always been pro DOH for integration and it would have been hypocritical to do anything other than that and believe me when I tell you that I struggled with this particular situation.
The SR and GGN pilots were all complicit in the degradation of our wages and working conditions, so yes, I likely would have voted with my desire to punish them had it come to that, probably good they didn’t allow that.
As for the 12+ YOS payment, in addition to what may have been said during the Q&A, the senior pilots in that category were most affected by the years of suppression due to the above mentioned competition. The agreement that was coming out with this one time payment had the biggest raises going to the bottom of the roster, again. Even our last meaningful negotiation in 2010 the senior pilots were held at 2%. 2% per year since 2010 is the only raises senior pilots have experienced in every contract since, so the one time payment really was only a drop in the bucket of how far behind we’ve fallen to inflation.
They waited 8 months due to the on going bargaining, I’m sure they were hoping to settle things without involving the CIRB, when Air Canada rejected our negotiated new agreement and replaced it with what “they were willing to pay”, that is what forced their hand. I can’t imagine the negotiations would’ve continued had the MEC filed a complaint in the middle of them. I would like to know what it was before Air Canada rejected it, I was told by a very good source it was 40% to the top and closer to 60% at the bottom. Maybe someday we will actually find out, for now it’s working its way through the process.
Yes, the numbers do speak for themselves and further proves the new wages didn’t go far enough because we are still only able to attract low time pilots, the odd 1500 hour pilot coming through but no DEC ready pilots that I've encountered. The fleet reduction is absolutely related to the fact AC doesn’t want to pay what is required to attract pilots to Jazz, I’m sure they’ve run the numbers and figure we can operate a fleet of 80 with our current staffing mix of senior pilots and high turnover at the bottom.
FYI, Jazz in some form has been around longer than AC itself, the situation were are in is because AC bought all of the regional airlines and merged them into one, then sold them on the stock market to boost their position. We are all just pawns, try to remember that when you wish ill will on your fellow pilots.
The last point I’ll make again, if you don’t blame Jazz management and your co-workers were great, why would you wish Jazz be shuddered and the company who created the situation we are in to take over all of the flying.

There should always be accountability for those in power and removing the lookup function hinders this. Power corrupts

The details of the SR merger are irrelevant (it was a bullshit deal for juniors though, you GC didn’t lose anything) we didn’t get to vote.

That payment was to have a chance at getting that MOA passed. You guys are retiring and don’t care what follows behind. Jazz MEC loved to preach unity but the seniority list is probably the most divided in Canada. The whole middle part of the list is gone. The old crew and new hires.

Although minor it was great DH’ing with GC guys, I got to wave to you in J while I crawled into the back. You forgot that part.

I would never wish ill on a co-worker but every place I’ve worked has had great co-workers and well maintained aircraft. The entity that is jazz needs to die. It needs to give the planes to AC and let them be run with AC pilots on AC routes. AC can’t staff another 80 planes so the pilots would factor in.

Why won’t younger pilot go into union roles? Nobody stays…. there are much better flying jobs out there

This was my favorite part too when I was at jazz, while the GC smiled and simply shrugged at you as you walked past the curtain.

Good news. Travelled today, got upgraded. Obviously not on jazz or AC.

[Upgradeable]

[cdnavater]

I have a hard time trusting Jazz MEC to fix this…

- When there was complaining about Union members on release taking OT they removed the coworker schedule look up function
- No vote on the Sky DOH merger
- That deal included a one time payment for anyone with 12(?) YOS, when asked in the QandA why not everyone? they said the juniors got money with sky deal but that was a fraction in comparison and we were on subsidies not working
- They never explained why they waited 8 months to file the complaint with CIRB

I’m not mad at jazz management I know they probably had bupkis to do with this. I just regret going there and hope everyone avoids it. The coworkers I had at jazz were great, the planes were well maintained but that’s it. The schedule was terrible, pay was crap, and the agreement with AC broken.

The numbers speak for themselves ~1600 pilots in 2019 how many now? And now fleet reductions? No new airplanes on order….

There are logical reasons for most of the issues you raised.
I mentioned it recently to another pilot about a rep who was doing OT on days that were blocked on their schedule as ALPA days, he said he doesn’t care about that because those days are just place holders for the amount of expected time they will put in based on the roster they represent. If not, how could we expect them to pick up the phone or respond to an email unless it was on one of those days. I know, everytime I contact my rep, he gets back to me pretty quick, he doesn’t wait for the days blocked on his schedule, so I’m ok with it, as long as they are putting in the time and not sloughing off, then nothing to complain about really.
The SR integration, first of all, it was the right thing to do, we were taking over their operation and the federal labour law about the right to follow the work would have applied to this situation.
Our MEC has always been pro DOH for integration and it would have been hypocritical to do anything other than that and believe me when I tell you that I struggled with this particular situation.
The SR and GGN pilots were all complicit in the degradation of our wages and working conditions, so yes, I likely would have voted with my desire to punish them had it come to that, probably good they didn’t allow that.
As for the 12+ YOS payment, in addition to what may have been said during the Q&A, the senior pilots in that category were most affected by the years of suppression due to the above mentioned competition. The agreement that was coming out with this one time payment had the biggest raises going to the bottom of the roster, again. Even our last meaningful negotiation in 2010 the senior pilots were held at 2%. 2% per year since 2010 is the only raises senior pilots have experienced in every contract since, so the one time payment really was only a drop in the bucket of how far behind we’ve fallen to inflation.
They waited 8 months due to the on going bargaining, I’m sure they were hoping to settle things without involving the CIRB, when Air Canada rejected our negotiated new agreement and replaced it with what “they were willing to pay”, that is what forced their hand. I can’t imagine the negotiations would’ve continued had the MEC filed a complaint in the middle of them. I would like to know what it was before Air Canada rejected it, I was told by a very good source it was 40% to the top and closer to 60% at the bottom. Maybe someday we will actually find out, for now it’s working its way through the process.
Yes, the numbers do speak for themselves and further proves the new wages didn’t go far enough because we are still only able to attract low time pilots, the odd 1500 hour pilot coming through but no DEC ready pilots that I've encountered. The fleet reduction is absolutely related to the fact AC doesn’t want to pay what is required to attract pilots to Jazz, I’m sure they’ve run the numbers and figure we can operate a fleet of 80 with our current staffing mix of senior pilots and high turnover at the bottom.
FYI, Jazz in some form has been around longer than AC itself, the situation were are in is because AC bought all of the regional airlines and merged them into one, then sold them on the stock market to boost their position. We are all just pawns, try to remember that when you wish ill will on your fellow pilots.
The last point I’ll make again, if you don’t blame Jazz management and your co-workers were great, why would you wish Jazz be shuddered and the company who created the situation we are in to take over all of the flying.

There should always be accountability for those in power and removing the lookup function hinders this. Power corrupts

The details of the SR merger are irrelevant (it was a bullshit deal for juniors though, you GC didn’t lose anything) we didn’t get to vote.

That payment was to have a chance at getting that MOA passed. You guys are retiring and don’t care what follows behind. Jazz MEC loved to preach unity but the seniority list is probably the most divided in Canada. The whole middle part of the list is gone. The old crew and new hires.

Although minor it was great DH’ing with GC guys, I got to wave to you in J while I crawled into the back. You forgot that part.

I would never wish ill on a co-worker but every place I’ve worked has had great co-workers and well maintained aircraft. The entity that is jazz needs to die. It needs to give the planes to AC and let them be run with AC pilots on AC routes. AC can’t staff another 80 planes so the pilots would factor in.

Why won’t younger pilot go into union roles? Nobody stays…. there are much better flying jobs out there

I’m going to go a different route than the past, I’m just going to let it go. Take care man and enjoy your new gig, good luck.

[pk95]

Apply to WJ and AC, not Jazz
If you get WJ, go there then apply for AC.
If you get neither, I would wait and upgrade to go straight to AC.
AC is even hiring Wasaya FOs so I would stick it out to either WJ or AC.
Pick up OT and get hours fast, you already have a 705 type rating that AC is looking for.

[Me262]

Apply to WJ and AC, not Jazz
If you get WJ, go there then apply for AC.
If you get neither, I would wait and upgrade to go straight to AC.
AC is even hiring Wasaya FOs so I would stick it out to either WJ or AC.
Pick up OT and get hours fast, you already have a 705 type rating that AC is looking for.

A bit late to the party. Guy went Jazz already.

If you don't have the hours to go WJ/AC, Jazz/Encore is a solid option if you are tired of the bush/have your PIC hrs.

[Outlaw58]

Apply to WJ and AC, not Jazz
If you get WJ, go there then apply for AC.
If you get neither, I would wait and upgrade to go straight to AC.
AC is even hiring Wasaya FOs so I would stick it out to either WJ or AC.
Pick up OT and get hours fast, you already have a 705 type rating that AC is looking for.

A bit late to the party. Guy went Jazz already.

If you don't have the hours to go WJ/AC, Jazz/Encore is a solid option if you are tired of the bush/have your PIC hrs.

Also, don't make decisions solely on what you read on AvCanada.

The vast majority of responses you will get are emotional and heavily biased and only very few posters have accurate information and even then, especially when it comes to hiring patterns, it is based on a past experience that do not reflect the actual or future hiring situation which is very likely to be radically different. If there is one thing we know for certain in aviation, it is that it is cyclical.

Check the temperature here sure... but when it comes to career decisions, if you make them based on comments from folks with forum handles instead of company titles, expect that the quality of your career will mirror that of the advice you sought.

58

PS: I would also validate the above advice. After all, you read it on AvCanada...

[KN84]

Apply to WJ and AC, not Jazz
If you get WJ, go there then apply for AC.
If you get neither, I would wait and upgrade to go straight to AC.
AC is even hiring Wasaya FOs so I would stick it out to either WJ or AC.
Pick up OT and get hours fast, you already have a 705 type rating that AC is looking for.

A bit late to the party. Guy went Jazz already.

If you don't have the hours to go WJ/AC, Jazz/Encore is a solid option if you are tired of the bush/have your PIC hrs.

Also, don't make decisions solely on what you read on AvCanada.

The vast majority of responses you will get are emotional and heavily biased and only very few posters have accurate information and even then, especially when it comes to hiring patterns, it is based on a past experience that do not reflect the actual or future hiring situation which is very likely to be radically different. If there is one thing we know for certain in aviation, it is that it is cyclical.

Check the temperature here sure... but when it comes to career decisions, if you make them based on comments from folks with forum handles instead of company titles, expect that the quality of your career will mirror that of the advice you sought.

58

PS: I would also validate the above advice. After all, you read it on AvCanada...

I would agree with your words. I reached out looking for some advice on the qualifications to move from 703 ops to 705 ops. I’ve been blasted with rudeness for the most part.