Jazz merging with Air Canada?

[Splash]

always welcome to join BOTL !!

Nothing is happening until at least January as the first order of business is to sell the regional leasing division, after that it would actually make sense for Air Canada to buy Jazz and it also makes sense for them to merge in in the main operation this time around.
With the demand for qualified Captains increasing and the supply decreasing, the cost will go up, obviously the CPA model no longer makes sense but they are stuck with it unless they buy it.
All I want for Christmas this year is this, my 20 year seniority bumping man in the sky of his high horse!

Would AC want to have Jazz complete the downsizing of the CPA to 80 aircraft in 2025 first before considering a hypothetical acquisition?

[truedude]

always welcome to join BOTL !!

Nothing is happening until at least January as the first order of business is to sell the regional leasing division, after that it would actually make sense for Air Canada to buy Jazz and it also makes sense for them to merge in in the main operation this time around.
With the demand for qualified Captains increasing and the supply decreasing, the cost will go up, obviously the CPA model no longer makes sense but they are stuck with it unless they buy it.
All I want for Christmas this year is this, my 20 year seniority bumping man in the sky of his high horse!

Would AC want to have Jazz complete the downsizing of the CPA to 80 aircraft in 2025 first before considering a hypothetical acquisition?

You are asking a hypothetical about a very hypothetical.... might as well ask if they will go ahead with said merger if teleportation were invented tomorrow?!

[DanWEC]

Wasn't this thread just started as a joke, or no?

[rudder]

Wasn't this thread just started as a joke, or no?

Hopefully yes - it was a joke.

Secondly, after the mainline pilots get their post-strike CBA - top scale Jazz CA pay will equal around a year 3 NB FO.

Apples to apples.

[cdnavater]

Started as a joke, probably but reality is Jazz doesn’t make Chorus money on the CPA, with a fleet of 80 aircraft I can’t see that revenue sustaining Chorus going forward.
The stock is back to where it was before speculation and the recent announcement, haven’t looked at Voyageur financials but I can’t imagine there is a ton of profit there either.
So, the question, selling the only asset worth anything to then be able to capitalize on growth possibilities when the asset they are selling was the only thing growing, what is the plan going forward? What growth opportunities are there for this operation?
As an investor, this feels like a wind down and the stock will only go down from here, unless miraculously they find a growth opportunity.
So a sale of Jazz and all the aircraft, that AC is pouring millions into this summer kind of makes sense. Sell Voyageur to EIC, I’m sure they’d be interested, leaves a new flight school to sell, I’m sure someone would be interested and all the shareholders rejoice as they get their share of the proceeds.
Question, how many pilots currently at AC? 5500?
How many did they say they wanted to have? 6500?
5500 + 1000(Jazz)=6500 coincidence?

[cdnavater]

In the absence of true argument, mock his nametag

I get it.

So, is there a difference from calling someone a clown and someone else mocking a name tag, curious where to draw a line.
Also, what argument, you welcomed us to the BOTL and I pointed out you’re delusional, nothing to argue about

[Inverted2]

Most of the OG “Dash 8 skippers” have retired once their aircraft were retired anyway. To think someone would barge in and demand DOH to be a 777 Captain is just foolish jibber jabber. One of the nicest guys I knew flew the Dash for many years and I asked him why he didn’t bid any of the east or west coast pairings and he said “xxxxx, I don’t fly west of Sault Ste Marie or east of Ottawa”. Plus none of this will happen anyway. You guys need to get out more and enjoy the summer.

[Core]

Lol even a joke thread brings out the stereotypical AC pilots. I dunno what's in the water over there but you don't see this from any other company. Reading avcanada for years and its always the same from you guys. Hilarious.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Started as a joke, probably but reality is Jazz doesn’t make Chorus money on the CPA, with a fleet of 80 aircraft I can’t see that revenue sustaining Chorus going forward.
The stock is back to where it was before speculation and the recent announcement, haven’t looked at Voyageur financials but I can’t imagine there is a ton of profit there either.
So, the question, selling the only asset worth anything to then be able to capitalize on growth possibilities when the asset they are selling was the only thing growing, what is the plan going forward? What growth opportunities are there for this operation?
As an investor, this feels like a wind down and the stock will only go down from here, unless miraculously they find a growth opportunity.
So a sale of Jazz and all the aircraft, that AC is pouring millions into this summer kind of makes sense. Sell Voyageur to EIC, I’m sure they’d be interested, leaves a new flight school to sell, I’m sure someone would be interested and all the shareholders rejoice as they get their share of the proceeds.
Question, how many pilots currently at AC? 5500?
How many did they say they wanted to have? 6500?
5500 + 1000(Jazz)=6500 coincidence?

Also coincide with the 25 fins AC is getting on paper before the end of 2025, and anticipation on QOL improvement in the new contract!

( and yes, nothing personal toward you, only facts)

[PittBoss]

Wasn't this thread just started as a joke, or no?

[Bede]

I think you guys need to do some reading on how seniority lists are merged.

I think Westjet pilots need to do some reading, because it sounds like you guys are about to get schooled... DOH with Sunwing is not what is going to happen.

Where did I say WJ was merging DOH? How do you know what is going to happen?

[truedude]

I think you guys need to do some reading on how seniority lists are merged.

I think Westjet pilots need to do some reading, because it sounds like you guys are about to get schooled... DOH with Sunwing is not what is going to happen.

Where did I say WJ was merging DOH? How do you know what is going to happen?

Don't know what will happen. But hasn't been going well for Westjet so far.

[Bede]

I think Westjet pilots need to do some reading, because it sounds like you guys are about to get schooled... DOH with Sunwing is not what is going to happen.

Where did I say WJ was merging DOH? How do you know what is going to happen?

Don't know what will happen. But hasn't been going well for Westjet so far.

Sorry, please substantiate.

[truedude]

Where did I say WJ was merging DOH? How do you know what is going to happen?

Don't know what will happen. But hasn't been going well for Westjet so far.

Sorry, please substantiate.

We will chat when the list is published. But I really hope you are taking the advice of your legal counsel not acting in unilateral way that isn't supported by law or precedent.

[JBI]

Don't know what will happen. But hasn't been going well for Westjet so far.

Sorry, please substantiate.

We will chat when the list is published. But I really hope you are taking the advice of your legal counsel not acting in unilateral way that isn't supported by law or precedent.

Bede hates lawyers. He never talks to them.

[rudder]

Sorry, please substantiate.

We will chat when the list is published. But I really hope you are taking the advice of your legal counsel not acting in unilateral way that isn't supported by law or precedent.

Bede hates lawyers. He never talks to them.

This really needs to be moved to the WJ/SWG section.

One discussion is about a merger that is happening. The other is about one that is not.

[truedude]

We will chat when the list is published. But I really hope you are taking the advice of your legal counsel not acting in unilateral way that isn't supported by law or precedent.

Bede hates lawyers. He never talks to them.

This really needs to be moved to the WJ/SWG section.

One discussion is about a merger that is happening. The other is about one that is not.

That you know of

[Oxi]

AC is looking to bring CMA into the mix like they did PAL

[GodlvlPilot]

AC is looking to bring CMA into the mix like they did PAL

Ac would bring your momma in too if they could.

Just cause cma has one Q400 means nothing until it happens like pal. Look up the q400 they have you'd realize it's being utlisided by talton nations up out of dease lake...

You could be right but no point in fear mongering the rumor mill.

[cdnavater]

AC is looking to bring CMA into the mix like they did PAL

They can, I believe the exclusivity that was violated with PAL expires Jan 1, so I would not at all be surprised to see a deal with CMA, that’s what AC does.
It’s business 101, they are negotiating with Jazz past 2025 of which we are only guaranteed 80 fins, of course Jazz wants more than that to spread out some costs and AC wants it as cheap as possible, so another operation with a deal adds to the pressure.
Jazz will be smaller very soon and they will have 15 extra Q400s available for lease, I’m sure that will be divided by PAL and CMA when the dust settles, 10 to CMA and another 5 to PAL is my guess.

[rudder]

AC is looking to bring CMA into the mix like they did PAL

They can, I believe the exclusivity that was violated with PAL expires Jan 1, so I would not at all be surprised to see a deal with CMA, that’s what AC does.
It’s business 101, they are negotiating with Jazz past 2025 of which we are only guaranteed 80 fins, of course Jazz wants more than that to spread out some costs and AC wants it as cheap as possible, so another operation with a deal adds to the pressure.
Jazz will be smaller very soon and they will have 15 extra Q400s available for lease, I’m sure that will be divided by PAL and CMA when the dust settles, 10 to CMA and another 5 to PAL is my guess.

Jazz has averaged 930-990 line pilots available since the post-COVID exodus. @12 pilots per fin, that staffs 80 fully utilized aircraft.

I don’t think there is a plan or the ability for Jazz to staff more than 80 fully utilized fins. Dec 31 2025 just came 2 years early, hence PAL and now perhaps CMA. AC appears to be revering to the ‘portfolio’ strategy for Express (again).

[CaptDukeNukem]

I thought you guys negotiated "exclusive" AC express. First PAL, now maybe CMA? wow.

[cdnavater]

I thought you guys negotiated "exclusive" AC express. First PAL, now maybe CMA? wow.

Read what I wrote!
The exclusive Express ends at the end of this year, PAL is being grieved, to what end who knows but as long as CMA is not operational before DEC 31, no violation.
We did it to rid ourselves of the scourge that was dragging us down, Sky Regional and GGN, as a result our wages went up, so I’d say it was a general success.
I’m not surprised that AC is going back to their usual methods, we still have a no strike clause until the end of our CBA, so the only purpose this serves is negotiating against Jazz for the renewal of the CPA.
As rudder said, we can only reliably staff 80 aircraft anyway but I fail to see how these other companies can staff a meaningful operation cheaper and still provide a reliable service.
However, this adds fuel to the rumour fire, if AC we’re to buy Jazz and merge it in, they would likely outsource the Q400 operations, Jazz has status pay but obviously that would disappear and they could staff the Qs much cheaper if they were off the OC and on another.
January is going to be interesting to see what happens

[hithere]

The exclusivity clause that Jazz had with AC on CPA operations ends on Dec 31 2025, not Dec of 2024. So if AC started up CMA on Jan 1st 2024 that would also be a violation of the Jazz/AC exclusivity agreement. I’m not saying it won’t happen, just stating facts

[cdnavater]

The exclusivity clause that Jazz had with AC on CPA operations ends on Dec 31 2025, not Dec of 2024. So if AC started up CMA on Jan 1st 2024 that would also be a violation of the Jazz/AC exclusivity agreement. I’m not saying it won’t happen, just stating facts

Edited,
That is correct, the exclusivity doesn’t end until Dec 31, 2025, I had incorrectly thought it was tied to the CPA renewal, so that begs the question, what the hell man!
So, of course this is rumour about CMA right now but I’ve learned over the years, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
If in fact they are negotiating an agreement to operate Qs in violation of this exclusive agreement that they have already violated with PAL and is being grieved, I can’t imagine this would go over well with an arbitrator.
More fuel to the Jazz integration at AC discussion, if AC owns Jazz they can right size the fleet so to speak but it would not negate the exclusivity agreement without integration. Integration is the only scenario that would negate the reason for having exclusivity, interesting times!