Strike vote

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cdnavater
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Re: Strike vote

Post by cdnavater »

Dry Guy wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:04 pm It'd be nice to hear from ALPA about what our plan is if we are in the exact same situation the railworkers are in. Before I go stand on the sidewalk holding a sign like goofy when we are going to arbitration anyway.
I honestly don’t think interference will happen with AC, they can justify their actions with both Rail shutdown simultaneously, the ramifications are extreme and wide ranging. Trucking is not a viable option to keeps things going with the volume that rail moves, there’s already a shortage of trucking capacity, however rail should be deemed essential if they are going to treat them as essential, I believe that puts more weight for arbitration.
Hopefully they can get a hearing sooner than later or even better a vote of non confidence, I think that would render government dissolved with no ability to pass legislation or really do anything!
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Dry Guy
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Dry Guy »

cdnavater wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:31 pm
I honestly don’t think interference will happen with AC, they can justify their actions with both Rail shutdown simultaneously, the ramifications are extreme and wide ranging. Trucking is not a viable option to keeps things going with the volume that rail moves, there’s already a shortage of trucking capacity, however rail should be deemed essential if they are going to treat them as essential, I believe that puts more weight for arbitration.
Hopefully they can get a hearing sooner than later or even better a vote of non confidence, I think that would render government dissolved with no ability to pass legislation or really do anything!
They even interfered with with the AMEs at a budget airline! Or they tried to until Seamus screwed up and forgot to tell CIRB to stop their strike too. They fired him for that one. This Labour Minister isn't making the same mistake.

I'm hoping really ALPA tells us to strike no matter what the Minister directs CIRB to do.
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altiplano
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Re: Strike vote

Post by altiplano »

BTD wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:11 pm
Dry Guy wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:04 pm It'd be nice to hear from ALPA about what our plan is if we are in the exact same situation the railworkers are in. Before I go stand on the sidewalk holding a sign like goofy when we are going to arbitration anyway.
With respect.

Get out there. It sucks… good. Don’t let a little crosswind blow us off course.

I have more or less 1 day off in the latter 3rd of the month. The 27th. I’ll be there. The rail situation makes me want to go more.

Toughen up everyone. We knew it was going to suck.
100%

This is the most critical picket of them all at the most critical time of all.

Unless you are away flying, unless your mother is on her death bed, you need to be there. There is no excuse to not be at this one. Traffic, commute, got back late night before, just got back on a red eye, going flying later that day, sick, hungover, dog died, new hire, retiring next month, checker, NRFO, instructor, low level pilot manager, off on gdip, whatever... this is where it counts. If you have a heart beat and are capable of standing up, you need to stand up and be there.

What happens over the next 21 days determines what happens after September 17. This month ahead will determine our lifestyle and earnings for the rest of our careers and have major implications for the next generation of Canadian pilots. We must not whiff on our chance here. It takes every one of us to carry this over the finish line.

Now is the time. It's all on the line.
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Dry Guy
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Dry Guy »

I'd love to be on the picket line of a union that states they won't kneel. The Teacher's union didn't kneel.

I don't like feeling like a sucker. Going to mediation instead of striking in the summer months made me feel like a sucker. Picketing for a union that isn't going to stand up to unlawful directives will make me feel like a sucker. So ALPA, are you going to stand up?
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altiplano
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Re: Strike vote

Post by altiplano »

Are you going to stand up?

Because right now it sounds like you aren't.

You are ALPA. Nobody else can stand up for you, be there and stand up for yourself.

If Charlene shows up with only the 40 or 50 die hards that go to every LCC meeting what message does that send? What kind of support is that?

But when half the base shows up at each event...
1300+ in YYZ
600+ in YVR
550+ in YUL
err... 25 in YWG

When 2500+ ACA pilots show up on Tuesday that's powerful, that's leverage that says we're not fucking around anymore and we're behind our ALPA leadership.

That's what it takes to stand up against the company, and against a Labour Minister. Be a part of it, help your own cause. If you aren't there you are a sucker.
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Last edited by altiplano on Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Strike vote

Post by rookiepilot »

Dry Guy wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:41 pm I'd love to be on the picket line of a union that states they won't kneel. The Teacher's union didn't kneel.

I don't like feeling like a sucker. Going to mediation instead of striking in the summer months made me feel like a sucker. Picketing for a union that isn't going to stand up to unlawful directives will make me feel like a sucker. So ALPA, are you going to stand up?
Lets get real now. So much of the tough talk against public sector workers at negotiation time is for public consumption. For show. They know where their bread is buttered. Its vote buying. Nothing more or less.

The important things going on you will not see. They will all lie to you. And to me.

I’d bet the teachers were told, wink wink nudge nudge, don’t settle for anything. We the government got your back.

Private sector workers? Take a look at how they treated the truckers who dared stand up. Frozen bank accounts. But they vote differently— hello!

Lets hope that doesn’t happen again to private sector workers. I wouldn’t bet on it though.

Singh couldn’t care less about you guys. You’re a fool to believe otherwise. You’ll have to fight for it. Could get nasty.

Wake up and smell the lemonade.

They, the government hate your guts — all private sector workers. They think you are trailer trash. THEY think they are so much better. Wake up naive children.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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BTD
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Re: Strike vote

Post by BTD »

Better to do the right thing and look like a sucker, then do nothing and actually be one.

Are we fair weather players or do we step up when things swerve a little. Stepping up only when you know the outcome shows no courage.

I hope it is a down pour with 30 kt winds on the 27th, because f*** it, that’s why. And I hope you will be there too.
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IMG_0156.jpeg (808.16 KiB) Viewed 3665 times
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cdnavater
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Re: Strike vote

Post by cdnavater »

altiplano wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:11 pm Are you going to stand up?

Because right now it sounds like you aren't.

You are ALPA. Nobody else can stand up for you, be there and stand up for yourself.

If Charlene shows up with only the 40 or 50 die hards that go to every LCC meeting what message does that send? What kind of support is that?

But when half the base shows up at each event...
1300+ in YYZ
600+ in YVR
550+ in YUL
err... 25 in YWG

When 2500+ ACA pilots show up on Tuesday that's powerful, that's leverage that says we're not fucking around anymore and we're behind our ALPA leadership.

That's what it takes to stand up against the company, and against a Labour Minister. Be a part of it, help your own cause. If you aren't there you are a sucker.
As a Jazz pilot, I support you and will be at one of the events this Tuesday! I will wear the special pin they are distributing for us to wear!
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Fanblade
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Fanblade »

BTD wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:12 pm Better to do the right thing and look like a sucker, then do nothing and actually be one.

Are we fair weather players or do we step up when things swerve a little. Stepping up only when you know the outcome shows no courage.

I hope it is a down pour with 30 kt winds on the 27th, because f*** it, that’s why. And I hope you will be there too.

IMG_0156.jpeg
I grinned from ear to ear when I read your post.
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Dry Guy
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Dry Guy »

altiplano wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:11 pm Are you going to stand up?
Of course I am.
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Dash.Trash
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Dash.Trash »

cdnavater wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:31 pm
Dry Guy wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:04 pm It'd be nice to hear from ALPA about what our plan is if we are in the exact same situation the railworkers are in. Before I go stand on the sidewalk holding a sign like goofy when we are going to arbitration anyway.
I honestly don’t think interference will happen with AC, they can justify their actions with both Rail shutdown simultaneously, the ramifications are extreme and wide ranging. Trucking is not a viable option to keeps things going with the volume that rail moves, there’s already a shortage of trucking capacity, however rail should be deemed essential if they are going to treat them as essential, I believe that puts more weight for arbitration.
Hopefully they can get a hearing sooner than later or even better a vote of non confidence, I think that would render government dissolved with no ability to pass legislation or really do anything!
I would not be so quick to hope for a non-confidence vote. The right to strike is essentially suspended when there is no government as there is nobody to send the strike notice to.

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Dash.Trash
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Dash.Trash »

Dry Guy wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:41 pm I'd love to be on the picket line of a union that states they won't kneel. The Teacher's union didn't kneel.

I don't like feeling like a sucker. Going to mediation instead of striking in the summer months made me feel like a sucker. Picketing for a union that isn't going to stand up to unlawful directives will make me feel like a sucker. So ALPA, are you going to stand up?
You are unlikely to receive instructions to directly disobey government orders. Doing so would likely result in jail time for union officials and heavy fines that could bankrupt even ALPA.

With that being said, if something similar were to happen to the AC Pilots, it would likely be a very stressful time for each and every pilot and they would be responsible under the CARs for assessing their fitness to safely fly.
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Me262
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Me262 »

Dash.Trash wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:55 pm
Dry Guy wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:41 pm I'd love to be on the picket line of a union that states they won't kneel. The Teacher's union didn't kneel.

I don't like feeling like a sucker. Going to mediation instead of striking in the summer months made me feel like a sucker. Picketing for a union that isn't going to stand up to unlawful directives will make me feel like a sucker. So ALPA, are you going to stand up?
You are unlikely to receive instructions to directly disobey government orders. Doing so would likely result in jail time for union officials and heavy fines that could bankrupt even ALPA.

With that being said, if something similar were to happen to the AC Pilots, it would likely be a very stressful time for each and every pilot and they would be responsible under the CARs for assessing their fitness to safely fly.
It was done before, this summer

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded

As pilots, calling in sick and "unfit to fly" is a real asset that cannot be disputed. A powerfull tool to send the message if the state illegally forces binding arbitration
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Strike vote

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

Me262 wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:44 pm
Dash.Trash wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:55 pm
Dry Guy wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:41 pm I'd love to be on the picket line of a union that states they won't kneel. The Teacher's union didn't kneel.

I don't like feeling like a sucker. Going to mediation instead of striking in the summer months made me feel like a sucker. Picketing for a union that isn't going to stand up to unlawful directives will make me feel like a sucker. So ALPA, are you going to stand up?
You are unlikely to receive instructions to directly disobey government orders. Doing so would likely result in jail time for union officials and heavy fines that could bankrupt even ALPA.

With that being said, if something similar were to happen to the AC Pilots, it would likely be a very stressful time for each and every pilot and they would be responsible under the CARs for assessing their fitness to safely fly.
It was done before, this summer

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded

As pilots, calling in sick and "unfit to fly" is a real asset that cannot be disputed. A powerfull tool to send the message if the state illegally forces binding arbitration
If the union asks or organizes everyone to call in sick on a specific day, that would be considered illegal job action. Now…. If you personally decide you don’t feel great today and it just happens to line up with everyone else not feeling great today, That’s a different story. However, this type of job action is dangerous.
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Aerkavo
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Aerkavo »

CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:49 am

If the union asks or organizes everyone to call in sick on a specific day, that would be considered illegal job action. Now…. If you personally decide you don’t feel great today and it just happens to line up with everyone else not feeling great today, That’s a different story. However, this type of job action is dangerous.
No, you're not going to fool them this way.

Any "bookoff" type event that falls outside the statistical norm will be deemed illegal job action. Yes, I know each pilot must self-assess their fitness and on an individual basis that's defensible but in the context of contract negotiations and suddenly a large percentage of pilots are all suddenly "not fit". Well, the CIRB would call it what it is - illegal. I mean "illegal" according to the stacked deck that our country's labour laws are.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Strike vote

Post by goingnowherefast »

That would be a fun report to submit to management

"The company's disrespect towards me and my coworkers caused a level of stress where I am no longer be fit for duty. I am remaining compliant with CAR 602.02"
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Re: Strike vote

Post by RoAF-Mig21 »

Me262 wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:44 pm
It was done before, this summer

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded

As pilots, calling in sick and "unfit to fly" is a real asset that cannot be disputed. A powerfull tool to send the message if the state illegally forces binding arbitration
That took a lot of balls from TAROM pilots, where the airline has a "corrupt communist style" of handling its workforce. They're pretty small (just over 20 planes) and everyone knows each other. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision, but amazing things happen when people unite.

Remember 1989? I do! I remember that time (Dec 1989) like it was yesterday and Romanians had a lot more to lose than a job, when they stood up for what they believed in. Maybe not the same thing as fighting for a good contract, but in a way it is. It's fighting for a better life for you and your families. The point, again, is about unity, not matter the cause.

I, tomorrow, will drive 3 hrs just to be with my AC colleagues in YYZ.
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Re: Strike vote

Post by cjp »

goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:10 am That would be a fun report to submit to management

"The company's disrespect towards me and my coworkers caused a level of stress where I am no longer be fit for duty. I am remaining compliant with CAR 602.02"
Image
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Re: Strike vote

Post by TCAS II »

Dash.Trash wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:55 pm
Dry Guy wrote: Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:41 pm I'd love to be on the picket line of a union that states they won't kneel. The Teacher's union didn't kneel.

I don't like feeling like a sucker. Going to mediation instead of striking in the summer months made me feel like a sucker. Picketing for a union that isn't going to stand up to unlawful directives will make me feel like a sucker. So ALPA, are you going to stand up?
You are unlikely to receive instructions to directly disobey government orders. Doing so would likely result in jail time for union officials and heavy fines that could bankrupt even ALPA.

With that being said, if something similar were to happen to the AC Pilots, it would likely be a very stressful time for each and every pilot and they would be responsible under the CARs for assessing their fitness to safely fly.

When the union has followed each step towards a legal strike action, it follows the law. What the government has done in removing the a constitutional right to strike, against the Supreme Court of Canada’s ruling, these orders are the illegal ones. Hold the line.
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Monkey_in_a_suit »

Does anyone know from a legal perspective why the rail workers haven't filed for an emergency injunction yet? Seems pretty slam dunk that the Ministers orders were illegal and violated the charter of Rights. Further the CIRB didn't really make a ruling other than to say that a court needed to decided rather than them.
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altiplano
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Re: Strike vote

Post by altiplano »

cjp wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 10:17 am
goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:10 am That would be a fun report to submit to management

"The company's disrespect towards me and my coworkers caused a level of stress where I am no longer be fit for duty. I am remaining compliant with CAR 602.02"
Image
That's it.

5400 individuals need to make the safest call.
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Re: Strike vote

Post by Bede »

Monkey_in_a_suit wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:39 pm Does anyone know from a legal perspective why the rail workers haven't filed for an emergency injunction yet? Seems pretty slam dunk that the Ministers orders were illegal and violated the charter of Rights. Further the CIRB didn't really make a ruling other than to say that a court needed to decided rather than them.
They have to file an Application in the Federal Court of Appeal first. (I think this case can skip the FC.) According to people I speak with regularly (labour lawyers), the Minister's order clearly is unconstitutional. However, there is no real emergency the requires an injunction before the case is heard on it's merits.
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digits_
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Re: Strike vote

Post by digits_ »

Bede wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:16 am
Monkey_in_a_suit wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:39 pm Does anyone know from a legal perspective why the rail workers haven't filed for an emergency injunction yet? Seems pretty slam dunk that the Ministers orders were illegal and violated the charter of Rights. Further the CIRB didn't really make a ruling other than to say that a court needed to decided rather than them.
They have to file an Application in the Federal Court of Appeal first. (I think this case can skip the FC.) According to people I speak with regularly (labour lawyers), the Minister's order clearly is unconstitutional. However, there is no real emergency the requires an injunction before the case is heard on it's merits.
Does that imply that the minister is counting on forced arbitration to reach a contract, before this makes it into a court? And if it does make it into court, would a judge there have the power to squash an arbitrated contract and restart the negotiationg/strike cycle?
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Re: Strike vote

Post by newlygrounded »

Bede wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:16 am
Monkey_in_a_suit wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:39 pm Does anyone know from a legal perspective why the rail workers haven't filed for an emergency injunction yet? Seems pretty slam dunk that the Ministers orders were illegal and violated the charter of Rights. Further the CIRB didn't really make a ruling other than to say that a court needed to decided rather than them.
They have to file an Application in the Federal Court of Appeal first. (I think this case can skip the FC.) According to people I speak with regularly (labour lawyers), the Minister's order clearly is unconstitutional. However, there is no real emergency the requires an injunction before the case is heard on it's merits.
Thank you for the inside scoop!
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CeeBee
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Re: Strike vote

Post by CeeBee »

I'm a regular passenger and I'll be flying air Canada soon, before the strike date. I do not represent any unions or any employee or any company, just a regular person. If I were to bring a bunch of print outs to distribute to other passengers to show my support for the pilots union and flight attendants, is that somehow against any rules? What if I settle for wearing a shirt that says "I support pilots" would I be at risk of being thrown out by the company? Are there any union or official ways for the public to show support? Like, a partiikind of ribbon or colour?

I wish more people knew that AC is basically stealing labour if crew aren't even paid until the planes are off the ground. Even if this is industry standard it's just dumb: folks are asking you guys for water and basically you're told you're representing the company and nobody knows you're not being paid because it doesn't make a lick of sense.

And I wish people knew how little y'all are paid. I might get stranded at my destination since my return date is after sept 18. But I fully support a strike. I'll find a way home fine.
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