cdnavater wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:29 am
I would a trust that ALPA is watching the seniority of the flowing pilots for correct order
So what exactly is Jazz ALPA gonna do if AC doesn’t take Jazz pilots in the “correct order”?
Please don’t say grievance, how’s that 2022 flow grievance going.
After what’s happened in the last couple years, I wouldn’t put it pass AC to intentionally not take Jazz captains
Chill out man, like I said I’m sure they were watching it and if there was out of seniority movement, we would have heard by now!
Whether or not something could have been done is a different question
Well the order can get messy quickly, someone who applied in 2022 (or before) and should have gone in 2022 could be junior to someone who changed their mind and applied in 2023. Hiring started in the later on 2023.
Minor, but I know many people who got frustrated and flowed when they were originally going to hang their hat at jazz. A drop in the bucket compared to the OTS that went ahead though.
So what exactly is Jazz ALPA gonna do if AC doesn’t take Jazz pilots in the “correct order”?
Please don’t say grievance, how’s that 2022 flow grievance going.
After what’s happened in the last couple years, I wouldn’t put it pass AC to intentionally not take Jazz captains
Chill out man, like I said I’m sure they were watching it and if there was out of seniority movement, we would have heard by now!
Whether or not something could have been done is a different question
Well the order can get messy quickly, someone who applied in 2022 (or before) and should have gone in 2022 could be junior to someone who changed their mind and applied in 2023. Hiring started in the later on 2023.
Minor, but I know many people who got frustrated and flowed when they were originally going to hang their hat at jazz. A drop in the bucket compared to the OTS that went ahead though.
Lol. Hang their hat at jazz.
Used to be a thing…. Only reason you wanna hang your hat there is cuz everyone else PFOd you. Or you flew for air Ontario…..
So what exactly is Jazz ALPA gonna do if AC doesn’t take Jazz pilots in the “correct order”?
Please don’t say grievance, how’s that 2022 flow grievance going.
After what’s happened in the last couple years, I wouldn’t put it pass AC to intentionally not take Jazz captains
Chill out man, like I said I’m sure they were watching it and if there was out of seniority movement, we would have heard by now!
Whether or not something could have been done is a different question
Well the order can get messy quickly, someone who applied in 2022 (or before) and should have gone in 2022 could be junior to someone who changed their mind and applied in 2023. Hiring started in the later on 2023.
Minor, but I know many people who got frustrated and flowed when they were originally going to hang their hat at jazz. A drop in the bucket compared to the OTS that went ahead though.
You’re correct about messy, it was in order of eligible pilots who applied, not sure how it worked if you weren’t eligible or applied later than others who had and were already interviewed, again, I’m sure that was tracked.
swervin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:00 am
Nothing scheduled until November. Apparently it will be a small course. Rumour has it only ATPLs for the next ground schools…
Why would any ATPL holder apply to Jazz when Porter pays double (considering they are at the minimum 1500 and still hold a ATPL)
swervin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:00 am
Nothing scheduled until November. Apparently it will be a small course. Rumour has it only ATPLs for the next ground schools…
60 or so pilots from jazz flowing to AC in the fall? Why arnt they rushing to fill those spots?
swervin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:00 am
Nothing scheduled until November. Apparently it will be a small course. Rumour has it only ATPLs for the next ground schools…
60 or so pilots from jazz flowing to AC in the fall? Why arnt they rushing to fill those spots?
Because Jazz probably has too many FOs that can’t upgrade in the short term. Why have 900 FOs when you only have 600 Captains?
swervin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:00 am
Nothing scheduled until November. Apparently it will be a small course. Rumour has it only ATPLs for the next ground schools…
60 or so pilots from jazz flowing to AC in the fall? Why arnt they rushing to fill those spots?
Because Jazz probably has too many FOs that can’t upgrade in the short term. Why have 900 FOs when you only have 600 Captains?
And no one with an ATPL is going to come anywhere near with the current pay and working conditions. Still amazes me the amount of pain and canceled routes AC is prepared to accept all over their stubbornness to pay pilots. They still seem to be under the belief that this will all resolve itself if they do nothing and wait.
60 or so pilots from jazz flowing to AC in the fall? Why arnt they rushing to fill those spots?
Because Jazz probably has too many FOs that can’t upgrade in the short term. Why have 900 FOs when you only have 600 Captains?
And no one with an ATPL is going to come anywhere near with the current pay and working conditions. Still amazes me the amount of pain and canceled routes AC is prepared to accept all over their stubbornness to pay pilots. They still seem to be under the belief that this will all resolve itself if they do nothing and wait.
Pay is a large part but QOL issues at Jazz are abundant, slowest route to AC must be a factor. I could never work less than 18 days a month. All pairings started and ended with DH to and from yyz.
Because Jazz probably has too many FOs that can’t upgrade in the short term. Why have 900 FOs when you only have 600 Captains?
And no one with an ATPL is going to come anywhere near with the current pay and working conditions. Still amazes me the amount of pain and canceled routes AC is prepared to accept all over their stubbornness to pay pilots. They still seem to be under the belief that this will all resolve itself if they do nothing and wait.
Pay is a large part but QOL issues at Jazz are abundant, slowest route to AC must be a factor. I could never work less than 18 days a month. All pairings started and ended with DH to and from yyz.
How many capt are required to staff 80 tails?
And they absolutely refused to talk about QOL issues last year, because all they can see in their small accountant brains is that any improvements to QOL means they need more pilots. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that those improvements might mean more people want to work at Jazz, and less will leave.
And no one with an ATPL is going to come anywhere near with the current pay and working conditions. Still amazes me the amount of pain and canceled routes AC is prepared to accept all over their stubbornness to pay pilots. They still seem to be under the belief that this will all resolve itself if they do nothing and wait.
Pay is a large part but QOL issues at Jazz are abundant, slowest route to AC must be a factor. I could never work less than 18 days a month. All pairings started and ended with DH to and from yyz.
How many capt are required to staff 80 tails?
And they absolutely refused to talk about QOL issues last year, because all they can see in their small accountant brains is that any improvements to QOL means they need more pilots. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that those improvements might mean more people want to work at Jazz, and less will leave.
Fact is, they had a maximum they were willing to pay that wouldn’t weaken their bargaining position with their pilots
I believe, after September, we will see further improvements, caveat, provided there are no outside forces preventing the need to make improvements. The big Flair question mark, Porter hiring slowing down, AC buying Jazz, economy slowing further could all affect this.
The outcome of the CIRB will have an effect, I believe positively, because at the very least our agreement in principle was more than what we ended up with, the violations and penalties associated could also have a positive effect!
swervin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:00 am
Nothing scheduled until November. Apparently it will be a small course. Rumour has it only ATPLs for the next ground schools…
60 or so pilots from jazz flowing to AC in the fall? Why arnt they rushing to fill those spots?
Because Jazz probably has too many FOs that can’t upgrade in the short term. Why have 900 FOs when you only have 600 Captains?
Pay is a large part but QOL issues at Jazz are abundant, slowest route to AC must be a factor. I could never work less than 18 days a month. All pairings started and ended with DH to and from yyz.
How many capt are required to staff 80 tails?
And they absolutely refused to talk about QOL issues last year, because all they can see in their small accountant brains is that any improvements to QOL means they need more pilots. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that those improvements might mean more people want to work at Jazz, and less will leave.
Fact is, they had a maximum they were willing to pay that wouldn’t weaken their bargaining position with their pilots
I believe, after September, we will see further improvements, caveat, provided there are no outside forces preventing the need to make improvements. The big Flair question mark, Porter hiring slowing down, AC buying Jazz, economy slowing further could all affect this.
The outcome of the CIRB will have an effect, I believe positively, because at the very least our agreement in principle was more than what we ended up with, the violations and penalties associated could also have a positive effect!
What? AC buying jazz? September improvements? Did you guys sign new ammendents or is it wishful thinking? Aren’t you downsizing? Economy grew again, by a small factor…. When is this recession coming? And at the end of all my questions…. When are you grievances with the CIRB gonna ever get settled? And in your “professional” opinion, are they gonna go back and fix every pilots life that was employed at jazz during the time where they got F@cked
And they absolutely refused to talk about QOL issues last year, because all they can see in their small accountant brains is that any improvements to QOL means they need more pilots. They just can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that those improvements might mean more people want to work at Jazz, and less will leave.
Fact is, they had a maximum they were willing to pay that wouldn’t weaken their bargaining position with their pilots
I believe, after September, we will see further improvements, caveat, provided there are no outside forces preventing the need to make improvements. The big Flair question mark, Porter hiring slowing down, AC buying Jazz, economy slowing further could all affect this.
The outcome of the CIRB will have an effect, I believe positively, because at the very least our agreement in principle was more than what we ended up with, the violations and penalties associated could also have a positive effect!
What? AC buying jazz? September improvements? Did you guys sign new ammendents or is it wishful thinking? Aren’t you downsizing? Economy grew again, by a small factor…. When is this recession coming? And at the end of all my questions…. When are you grievances with the CIRB gonna ever get settled? And in your “professional” opinion, are they gonna go back and fix every pilots life that was employed at jazz during the time where they got F@cked
I’d say my professional opinion is far more informed than what you pass off as “knowledge”!
The CIRB has been agreed to be delayed until all parties are not dealing with other pressing matters, in case you weren’t aware AC pilots are about to strike!
You can have your Porter rose glasses on, but it sure is quiet these days, hmm, nothing to see here folks….
Growth, growth growth, forever, as far as the eye can see!
Because Jazz probably has too many FOs that can’t upgrade in the short term. Why have 900 FOs when you only have 600 Captains?
How would the FO’s not be be able to upgrade?
Because, non of them have BE20 or proline 21 experience
Sorry I’m not understanding your reply. Upgrade requirements should be met after a period of time for all FO’s, time on type I assume be the requirement most would only need.
Because, non of them have BE20 or proline 21 experience
Sorry I’m not understanding your reply. Upgrade requirements should be met after a period of time for all FO’s, time on type I assume be the requirement most would only need.
My reply was snarky in nature, you really come across as someone with little to zero industry knowledge, which is why you are being called a troll.
Someone in the industry would clearly know, for the past two or so years our FOs are mostly between 250(college program) and 750tt instructors, combine that with many are sitting on reserve and not flying, so not building time, therefore most do not meet the requirements for upgrade!
cdnavater wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 12:01 pm
Because, non of them have BE20 or proline 21 experience
Sorry I’m not understanding your reply. Upgrade requirements should be met after a period of time for all FO’s, time on type I assume be the requirement most would only need.
My reply was snarky in nature, you really come across as someone with little to zero industry knowledge, which is why you are being called a troll.
Someone in the industry would clearly know, for the past two or so years our FOs are mostly between 250(college program) and 750tt instructors, combine that with many are sitting on reserve and not flying, so not building time, therefore most do not meet the requirements for upgrade!
So aren't 750-900hr pilots eligible to upgrade in the next year/year and a half? They'll be at 1500 so their ATPL will be valid
Sorry I’m not understanding your reply. Upgrade requirements should be met after a period of time for all FO’s, time on type I assume be the requirement most would only need.
My reply was snarky in nature, you really come across as someone with little to zero industry knowledge, which is why you are being called a troll.
Someone in the industry would clearly know, for the past two or so years our FOs are mostly between 250(college program) and 750tt instructors, combine that with many are sitting on reserve and not flying, so not building time, therefore most do not meet the requirements for upgrade!
So aren't 750-900hr pilots eligible to upgrade in the next year/year and a half? They'll be at 1500 so their ATPL will be valid
1500 and ink dry on the ATPL is very low time to be in command of a Q or RJ. I'd imagine very few with this experience, if any, feel they're ready for the upgrade. Let alone be able to make it through the training.
