It is imminent.......be ready.

[rookiepilot]

This isn’t gonna make it easy.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/AC.TO/

[khedrei]

Isn't the DB pension a total lie as well? Don't only the senior guys have that. I thought it was removed for new hires a LONG time ago....

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I think the MEC should start publicly posting salary data for flat pay pilots and showcase that alot of us work second jobs. A lot of my non-aviation friends think we are crazy for turning down a 30% raise based on the $350K salary data that AC is pumping out in recent news. When I tell people I made $65K last year from full time flying they don't believe me.

There should be press releases from ALPA showing our real salaries before the company has time to control the narrative. People only remember the first headline they read not the followup correction from media that just publish whatever without fact checking.

[altiplano]

Isn't the DB pension a total lie as well? Don't only the senior guys have that. I thought it was removed for new hires a LONG time ago....

About 35% of remaining pilots are on the DB. Everyone now joins on TBP. Depending on how you progress through your career TBP could do better or worse than DB.

ie. The more money you make throughout your career, the better you pension on TBP and without a cap. Whereas with the DB it is based on the average of your final 5 years. If you max out the final 5 you get max pension, but it is capped by negotiated MPUs in the contract which haven't gone up for 2 years.

Unless you want to stay RP or senior NB FO for most of your career, if you progress normally and upgrade in the first 10 years on property, it is likely that a pilot will do better on TBP. Especially when we bring in these big FN raises.

[Canadaflyer46]

I think the MEC should start publicly posting salary data for flat pay pilots and showcase that alot of us work second jobs. A lot of my non-aviation friends think we are crazy for turning down a 30% raise based on the $350K salary data that AC is pumping out in recent news. When I tell people I made $65K last year from full time flying they don't believe me.

There should be press releases from ALPA showing our real salaries before the company has time to control the narrative. People only remember the first headline they read not the followup correction from media that just publish whatever without fact checking.

I always wish for the same when I read the bullshit the airline execs are pumping out to the media. Then I remember that the narrative doesn’t matter. Who cares what the public think, sympathy or not it doesn’t change the course. The public isn’t gonna be out there picketing with you, and they’ll all be mad when their flight is canceled regardless.
At WJ our AMEs walked out on a Friday evening and shut the whole thing down. Barely any media releases from AMFA. End result will be the same, the execs will open up the chequebook when they’ve puffed their chest enough and realize the government isn’t stepping in to save them.

[flying4dollars]

The average narrow body aircraft pilot works 13.31 days per month

Now that’s funny

Probably factors in book offs Cuz you need to do that to work a manageable monthly sched

[daedalusx]

The average narrow body aircraft pilot works 13.31 days per month

Now that’s funny

Probably factors in book offs Cuz you need to do that to work a manageable monthly sched

The only way these numbers make sense is if they add up all the crews on leave/disability. I don't recall ever meeting anyone at AC working 13 days or less on NB regardless of their seniority. I'm sure there's a few out there but to claim that the average is 13.3 is absolutely hilarious.

[BTD]

Isn't the DB pension a total lie as well? Don't only the senior guys have that. I thought it was removed for new hires a LONG time ago....

About 35% of remaining pilots are on the DB. Everyone now joins on TBP. Depending on how you progress through your career TBP could do better or worse than DB.

ie. The more money you make throughout your career, the better you pension on TBP and without a cap. Whereas with the DB it is based on the average of your final 5 years. If you max out the final 5 you get max pension, but it is capped by negotiated MPUs in the contract which haven't gone up for 2 years.

Unless you want to stay RP or senior NB FO for most of your career, if you progress normally and upgrade in the first 10 years on property, it is likely that a pilot will do better on TBP. Especially when we bring in these big FN raises.

Slight correction. The DB is based off your best 5 years, not necessarily the final 5. However, in practice that is how it usually works out.

[lownslow]

I don't recall ever meeting anyone at AC working 13 days or less on NB regardless of their seniority.

I have 14 days vacation this month and my block still shows 12 days of flying.

[daedalusx]

I don't recall ever meeting anyone at AC working 13 days or less on NB regardless of their seniority.

I have 14 days vacation this month and my block still shows 12 days of flying.

Jesus Christ dude, I have 9 days VAC and only working 3

[Daniel Cooper]

Is it legal for the company to leak the 30% offer to the media? Everyone I met today told me how the strike has been averted. That was news to me!

[flying4dollars]

Is it legal for the company to leak the 30% offer to the media? Everyone I met today told me how the strike has been averted. That was news to me!

The union could have an argument for them bargaining in bad faith but this would simply delay the negotiations process even longer. If we just maintain the current course and commit to a work stoppage on September 18th, we keep the pressure on them. It will also look bad on AC's part if an arbitrator gets involved. So it's probably more favorable for us to just keep trucking on and doing everything right and by the book. This is just my guess.

[bcflyer]

Personally I think ALPA should hold off with their strike notice. AC is planning to start cancelling flights in advance of any strike notification. Let them cancel and don’t issue a strike notice. Hard to say the union is hurting business when you do it to yourself.

[Canadaflyer46]

My guess is they’ll issue a lockout notice right away on the 15th. They won’t let ALPA wield their sword of power. Works better to have cancelations right away and not closer to Thanksgiving.

[bcflyer]

My guess is they’ll issue a lockout notice right away on the 15th. They won’t let ALPA wield their sword of power. Works better to have cancelations right away and not closer to Thanksgiving.

Unless ALPA gives a strike notice, locking the pilots out does nothing to help the situation. In fact any goodwill the company may have with the public would be lost as passengers realize it was the company who cancelled their flights and not the pilots.

[Aerkavo]

Unless ALPA gives a strike notice, locking the pilots out does nothing to help the situation. In fact any goodwill the company may have with the public would be lost as passengers realize it was the company who cancelled their flights and not the pilots.

You give too much credit to the media and the public. They can't tell the difference, don't care and it won't be told to them in a way they understand. The headlines and reporting will be; "the pilots are/were in a legal strike position and the flights are all cancelled" therefore - it's the pilot's fault.

Same as the rail situation. Both companies locked out but only one was issued strike notice - all the reporting focused on showing striking workers carrying signs and talked about "getting the workers back on the job" as if it was the workers that were responsible.

[RoAF-Mig21]

... You give too much credit to the media and the public. They can't tell the difference, don't care and it won't be told to them in a way they understand...

I ran into my next door neighbour yesterday, while at the grocery store. We talk all the time and often have beers on the front lawns of our houses, chatting. I told him many times I fly for Jazz and not Air Canada.

Yesterday he asked me: "So when are you guys going on strike?"

I explained to him (again) that we're a "contractor" and that I will not be going on strike. You're right. The public doesn't know and doesn't care. We're all Air Canada as far as 95% of the public is concerned. You have the frequent travelers and the av-geeks that know the difference. The rest don't care.

I often ask my friends and family "Who you' flyin' with?". Most have no clue what airline they bought their tickets with. On that note, I wonder how the flying public will see us (Jazz pilots) working while AC pilots are striking. After all, we have the same uniform (minus the logo/wings). It's something I'm very uncomfortable with to be honest. The optics of it bothers me, so much so that I had a hard time falling asleep last night.

[SPR]

There is a major difference between a strike and a lockout, which is the effect on passenger compensation. In the event of a strike, the carrier is not on the hook to compensate for disruptions, as it's considered beyond their control in the same way as a weather event. However, a lockout is very clearly within the company's control, so if they do that they'll have to pay out millions under the APPR. I don't think management will take on that responsibility.

[digits_]

There is a major difference between a strike and a lockout, which is the effect on passenger compensation. In the event of a strike, the carrier is not on the hook to compensate for disruptions, as it's considered beyond their control in the same way as a weather event. However, a lockout is very clearly within the company's control, so if they do that they'll have to pay out millions under the APPR. I don't think management will take on that responsibility.

Not necessarily. The EU still demands that passengers on flights to/from EU compensate their passengers in case of a strike: https://www.airhelp.ca/strike/

[Fanblade]

There is a major difference between a strike and a lockout, which is the effect on passenger compensation. In the event of a strike, the carrier is not on the hook to compensate for disruptions, as it's considered beyond their control in the same way as a weather event. However, a lockout is very clearly within the company's control, so if they do that they'll have to pay out millions under the APPR. I don't think management will take on that responsibility.

The rules for passenger compensation are all country contingent. As posted above AC will be responsible for compensation even if the pilots strike in some countries.

In Canada however Strike/Lockout is considered the same thing. They are both a labor disruption that won’t trigger passenger compensation. It may not make a lot of sense but it is what it is.

However all cancelled flights will trigger the right to a refund as a result of the changes made after the Covid fiasco.

[Dry Guy]

https://theijf.org/lululemon-tfw-deal

What is going on? The government is bending over backwards to help corporations screw Canadian workers.

[sullecpt]

https://theijf.org/lululemon-tfw-deal

What is going on? The government is bending over backwards to help corporations screw Canadian workers.

Our government doesn't mess around.

[daedalusx]

https://theijf.org/lululemon-tfw-deal

What is going on? The government is bending over backwards to help corporations screw Canadian workers.

We need slave labour otherwise our business model will fail.

[rookiepilot]

https://theijf.org/lululemon-tfw-deal

What is going on? The government is bending over backwards to help corporations screw Canadian workers.

And the light bulb goes on ………

[CanadianPilotQc]

are you guys naive enough to not think the feds will force the union and AC into binding arbitration? especially with how air canada is reacting in the media?

they don't care cause they know!