It is imminent.......be ready.

[truedude]

are you guys naive enough to not think the feds will force the union and AC into binding arbitration? especially with how air canada is reacting in the media?

they don't care cause they know!

And the pilots may still walk and deal with the fallout later in court. Any back to work orders would be a clear violation of chartered protected rights. There will be no back to work order. And the pilots won't go back short of a motion passing in the house.

[goingnowherefast]

are you guys naive enough to not think the feds will force the union and AC into binding arbitration? especially with how air canada is reacting in the media?

they don't care cause they know!

The handling of the WJ mechanics and the rail workers cost the Liberals their deal with the NDP. I don't think they're dumb enough to try the same stunt with AC pilots. It would force an election.

NDP are pro labour. Conservatives will do anything to force an election. Minority liberals are on their own with waning public support. If they want to stay in power, they'll stay out of the AC pilot negotiations.

[rookiepilot]

are you guys naive enough to not think the feds will force the union and AC into binding arbitration? especially with how air canada is reacting in the media?

they don't care cause they know!

The handling of the WJ mechanics and the rail workers cost the Liberals their deal with the NDP. I don't think they're dumb enough to try the same stunt with AC pilots. It would force an election.

NDP are pro labour. Conservatives will do anything to force an election. Minority liberals are on their own with waning public support. If they want to stay in power, they'll stay out of the AC pilot negotiations.

Jagmeet Singh is pro Jagmeet Singh. And nothing more.

What part of that isn’t obvious?

[khedrei]

The government intervened in the WJ mechanics strike and the rail workers strike but somehow AC pilots are special?? They know not to intervene here?! Can you hear yourselves?

The NDP tore up the agreement only in principle. It's just a show tactic by Singh. He wouldn't even answer the direct question posed a dozen times " do you have confidence in this government?"

The liberals have gotten away with murder for 9 years. Ilegal use of emergency powers, SNC lavalin, blackface PM, giving CERB pay to full time CRA workers, the arrive scam app, just to name a few. Getting the minister of labour to force back striking pilots will be the final nail...

Yeah that's it....

[truedude]

The government intervened in the WJ mechanics strike and the rail workers strike but somehow AC pilots are special?? They know not to intervene here?! Can you hear yourselves?

The NDP tore up the agreement only in principle. It's just a show tactic by Singh. He wouldn't even answer the direct question posed a dozen times " do you have confidence in this government?"

The liberals have gotten away with murder for 9 years. Ilegal use of emergency powers, SNC lavalin, blackface PM, giving CERB pay to full time CRA workers, the arrive scam app, just to name a few. Getting the minister of labour to force back striking pilots will be the final nail...

Yeah that's it....

They tried to intervene with the WJ mechanics, but that backfired. They interfered with the railworkers, but the courts will very likely rule it was a violation of their rights and they will be back in a strike position before they ever have 1 day of arbitration. And AC pilots with deep ALPA pilots might just ignore a back to work orders that violates supreme court affirmed constitutional rights.

[hithere]

The Bloc Quebecois is now talking about doing a similar deal with the Liberals that the NDP had and the Bloc actually has more seats/votes than the NDP had. AC has a long history in Quebec so its possible any back to work legislation(if it comes to that) would pass

[out_there]

I’ve been a wide body FO at AC for a number of years, so I get pretty good exposure to the mindsets of both very very senior Captains and very very junior RP’s. I can say without a doubt that with very little exception our pilots from top to bottom are prepared to stand our ground and defy an illegal back to work order.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I’ve been a wide body FO at AC for a number of years, so I get pretty good exposure to the mindsets of both very very senior Captains and very very junior RP’s. I can say without a doubt that with very little exception our pilots from top to bottom are prepared to stand our ground and defy an illegal back to work order.

Just let them talk. While we walk.

[Stu Pidasso]

I hope it doesn't come to "Back to Work Legislation," but if it does there is no way ALPA (USA) will defy it. The threats of massive fines to the Union and possibly the membership, will put an end to it.

It all sounds good to say we'll stay out but it will never happen, ALPA (USA) isn't going to risk that financial exposure.

[goingnowherefast]

It will be interesting to see what happens with the rail contracts. If their forced back to work is deemed illegal, does that invalidate any contract that gets forced on them?

We're discussing a different avenue (back to work legislation) that might happen here. If that's decided to be illegal, does that invalidate any forced contract?

Sure the Bloc is in Quebec, but aren't they pretty pro-labour as well? I'm sure this will be discussed if the Liberals and Bloc are setting up a deal

[kiaszceski]

So no more "World Class Contract"?

[truedude]

It will be interesting to see what happens with the rail contracts. If their forced back to work is deemed illegal, does that invalidate any contract that gets forced on them?

We're discussing a different avenue (back to work legislation) that might happen here. If that's decided to be illegal, does that invalidate any forced contract?

Sure the Bloc is in Quebec, but aren't they pretty pro-labour as well? I'm sure this will be discussed if the Liberals and Bloc are setting up a deal

It will find it's way into court well before any binding arbitration is finished.

[Bede]

There wont be a strike. There wont be back to work legislation. There will be a TA. See latest memo and read between the lines.

[digits_]

There wont be a strike. There wont be back to work legislation. There will be a TA. See latest memo and read between the lines.

[thepoors]

There wont be a strike. There wont be back to work legislation. There will be a TA. See latest memo and read between the lines.

I don't disagree...and this line especially was very concerning: "While several key economic and strategic items remain open, both sides are working towards achieving solutions that will place Air Canada pilots at the pinnacle of the piloting profession in Canada and close the gap with our US counterparts"

This is very disappointing to hear from ALPA and a complete 180 from World Class Contract. We're back to the old rhetoric of "top paid in Canada" i.e. best of the worst.

I hope I'm wrong but this has me thinking we are headed towards a crap WestJet-like deal to avoid a strike. After all the rah-rah at the picket, is this really what we're being reduced to once again??

[goingnowherefast]

Contact your ALPA reps. Tell them they have your support all the way. World class contract.

[Canadaflyer46]

There wont be a strike. There wont be back to work legislation. There will be a TA. See latest memo and read between the lines.

I don't disagree...and this line especially was very concerning: "While several key economic and strategic items remain open, both sides are working towards achieving solutions that will place Air Canada pilots at the pinnacle of the piloting profession in Canada and close the gap with our US counterparts"

This is very disappointing to hear from ALPA and a complete 180 from World Class Contract. We're back to the old rhetoric of "top paid in Canada" i.e. best of the worst.

I hope I'm wrong but this has me thinking we are headed towards a crap WestJet-like deal to avoid a strike. After all the rah-rah at the picket, is this really what we're being reduced to once again??

I fear you're right. This is exactly the way ALPA played it at WJ. Had us chanting "North American standard contract" and "we will make them" on the picket lines, and then U-turned at the last minute for a 15% raise. I truly hope they don't cave like we did.

[Hudson]

First of all, have some faith.
Second of all, the pilot group has to agree. And we're not voting yes to garbage!

[thepoors]

First of all, have some faith.
Second of all, the pilot group has to agree. And we're not voting yes to garbage!

I don't think you understand how these things go. Once it's up for a vote, it will get voted in. It's as good as a done deal.

When people see the improvements (which I don't doubt there are many) they will be inclined to say "good enough" and let's be done with dragging out negotiations. When there's something on the table, people will find a way to justify it and settle.

Remember also, it's easy as a capt who's already comfortable making $200k+ to see some QOL improvements and be happy. While the poor bastards on $58k flat pay continue to get shafted.

No pilot working at AC should be making less than $100k and struggling to pay their bills. For me, any contract that continues that trend is worthless.

[daedalusx]

The cucking has started

[daedalusx]

There wont be a strike. There wont be back to work legislation. There will be a TA. See latest memo and read between the lines.

I don't disagree...and this line especially was very concerning: "While several key economic and strategic items remain open, both sides are working towards achieving solutions that will place Air Canada pilots at the pinnacle of the piloting profession in Canada and close the gap with our US counterparts"

This is very disappointing to hear from ALPA and a complete 180 from World Class Contract. We're back to the old rhetoric of "top paid in Canada" i.e. best of the worst.

I hope I'm wrong but this has me thinking we are headed towards a crap WestJet-like deal to avoid a strike. After all the rah-rah at the picket, is this really what we're being reduced to once again??

I fear you're right. This is exactly the way ALPA played it at WJ. Had us chanting "North American standard contract" and "we will make them" on the picket lines, and then U-turned at the last minute for a 15% raise. I truly hope they don't cave like we did.

And then a year later the WJ MEC still tout this POS as the "best contract in Canada"
Best rates ? Sure at the moment, but the rest of it is dogshit, no offense

[teej96]

There wont be a strike. There wont be back to work legislation. There will be a TA. See latest memo and read between the lines.

I don't disagree...and this line especially was very concerning: "While several key economic and strategic items remain open, both sides are working towards achieving solutions that will place Air Canada pilots at the pinnacle of the piloting profession in Canada and close the gap with our US counterparts"

This is very disappointing to hear from ALPA and a complete 180 from World Class Contract. We're back to the old rhetoric of "top paid in Canada" i.e. best of the worst.

I hope I'm wrong but this has me thinking we are headed towards a crap WestJet-like deal to avoid a strike. After all the rah-rah at the picket, is this really what we're being reduced to once again??

Hello! So I've been lurking here since early August. I have flights that are very close to this strike date. Obviously, I'm in full support of the pilots and hope you guys get the deal you want. I've already booked refundables (may my wallet rest in peace), but was just curious - is this recent rhetoric by ALPA an internal union memo, or is it from public news anywhere?

[rudder]

First of all, have some faith.
Second of all, the pilot group has to agree. And we're not voting yes to garbage!

I don't think you understand how these things go. Once it's up for a vote, it will get voted in. It's as good as a done deal.

When people see the improvements (which I don't doubt there are many) they will be inclined to say "good enough" and let's be done with dragging out negotiations. When there's something on the table, people will find a way to justify it and settle.

Remember also, it's easy as a capt who's already comfortable making $200k+ to see some QOL improvements and be happy. While the poor bastards on $58k flat pay continue to get shafted.

No pilot working at AC should be making less than $100k and struggling to pay their bills. For me, any contract that continues that trend is worthless.

Hopefully the result (strike or no strike) will be 70-35% raises. 70% for new-hires with 35% (or more if achievable) for other pilots on formula pay. No freighter pay scales. No Rouge pay scales.

AC already owes the AC pilots a 12 month retroactive increase. Nobody will accept a 4 year wait to get to industry standard. Any deal will have to be front loaded if the final rates are less than what is desired.

[RippleRock]

The rhetoric is getting thick, just like I warned of in the very first post on this thread.

IGNORE IT.

Keep your head on the job on the Flightdeck. Professionalism.

There will be a lot more between now and when a World Class Contract is tabled. A lot worse. This is war.

DON'T let Charlene down. She's putting her neck on the line for YOU. There is nothing that could ever repay her for her sacrifice to this profession. She is taking heavy shrapnel from all sides right now.

Support her with everything you have!!!


HOLD THE LINE

[Bede]

And then a year later the WJ MEC still tout this POS as the "best contract in Canada"
Best rates ? Sure at the moment, but the rest of it is dogshit, no offense

Have you read it? What parts don't you like?