It is imminent.......be ready.

[rookiepilot]

Every CA will vote for this while claiming here they won’t.

Fearless prediction.

Eat your own young.

[Airbusses]

Every CA will vote for this while claiming here they won’t.

Fearless prediction.

Eat your own young.

Sure they will. Glad you have the inside scoop!

[daedalusx]

[braaap Braap]

The competition has attempted to pay more and staff up prior to this, thinking we would cause an earthquake when the contract came out. Now they wont have to care anymore because AC didn't raise the bar. No improvements across the industry for anyone else since AC set the gold standard. There will be no major shift of seats in Canada. No panic to pay up for experience. Same crap.

This was the chance we needed. WestJet failed, Air Canada bombed. Everyone loses. But hey, I'm happy for the boomers-life has never been fair to them eh

I don't know the left seat rates and an extra 30k to live in Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver will certainly keep people crawling over broken glass to "fly the flag".

[khedrei]

21k.

57k to 78k

[‘Bob’]

Every CA will vote for this while claiming here they won’t.

Fearless prediction.

Eat your own young.

Sure they will. Glad you have the inside scoop!

Numbers don’t lie. How do you think every other crappy CA passed?

Just like how nobody likes Nickelback or Taylor Swift but their sales say otherwise.

[truedude]

Every CA will vote for this while claiming here they won’t.

Fearless prediction.

Eat your own young.

Sure they will. Glad you have the inside scoop!

Numbers don’t lie. How do you think every other crappy CA passed?

Just like how nobody likes Nickelback or Taylor Swift but their sales say otherwise.

The genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back. It will pass, but narrowly. And it will be studied in business schools for decades to come as a near perfect contract negotiation.... from management.

Heard a rumor that management side of the table was at Arizona's last night in good spirits... Maybe that's just a rumor, but I doubt anyone from the union was feeling very celebrative last night.

In the end, the MEC members that voted to send this to the pilots (I understand there were six) squandered a once in a generation opertunity, and should feel nothing but shame for the rest of their careers; they sold out not only their own pilots, but all Canadian pilots. When it was time to stare into the abyss, the abyss stared back... Time for 5200 other pilots to do the same, what truths will you discover about yourself when you cast your vote?

[Ash Ketchum]

I don't see this passing. Too many flat pay pilots who should all be voting no.

[cdnavater]

I don't see this passing. Too many flat pay pilots who should all be voting no.

You are making some assumptions based on your situation, many, many pilots will be off flat pay if this passes. How many are going in to their fifth year, huge bump that year, on average from year 4 to 5 is a 50/hr increase. The no votes will mainly come from the pilots hired in the last two years, how many are they? Certainly not a majority, so the likelihood of this passing is in the neighborhood of 60%, it’s targeted as most contracts are, they give just enough to pass by a slim margin, any more than that is considered a fail by management!
So, Ash, if this passes, are you quitting?

[Ash Ketchum]

I don't see this passing. Too many flat pay pilots who should all be voting no.

You are making some assumptions based on your situation, many, many pilots will be off flat pay if this passes. How many are going in to their fifth year, huge bump that year, on average from year 4 to 5 is a 50/hr increase. The no votes will mainly come from the pilots hired in the last two years, how many are they? Certainly not a majority, so the likelihood of this passing is in the neighborhood of 60%, it’s targeted as most contracts are, they give just enough to pass by a slim margin, any more than that is considered a fail by management!
So, Ash, if this passes, are you quitting?

I am not quitting immediately but will likely be gone within the next year if my plan works out.

[cdnavater]

I don't see this passing. Too many flat pay pilots who should all be voting no.

You are making some assumptions based on your situation, many, many pilots will be off flat pay if this passes. How many are going in to their fifth year, huge bump that year, on average from year 4 to 5 is a 50/hr increase. The no votes will mainly come from the pilots hired in the last two years, how many are they? Certainly not a majority, so the likelihood of this passing is in the neighborhood of 60%, it’s targeted as most contracts are, they give just enough to pass by a slim margin, any more than that is considered a fail by management!
So, Ash, if this passes, are you quitting?

I am not quitting immediately but will likely be gone within the next year if my plan works out.

I wish you the best, I hope in your next career move you can eventually end up making 450k nearing the end.
Many AC pilots will make over 300k for many years before they can make widebody Captain.
I honestly thought year 1 would be 100k minimum and am a little surprised but at the end of the day, there is only three years until next round of negotiations, it would be a difficult decision to quit and give up the future earnings unless it’s to go fly for a U.S major.
Good luck to you

[Ash Ketchum]

You are making some assumptions based on your situation, many, many pilots will be off flat pay if this passes. How many are going in to their fifth year, huge bump that year, on average from year 4 to 5 is a 50/hr increase. The no votes will mainly come from the pilots hired in the last two years, how many are they? Certainly not a majority, so the likelihood of this passing is in the neighborhood of 60%, it’s targeted as most contracts are, they give just enough to pass by a slim margin, any more than that is considered a fail by management!
So, Ash, if this passes, are you quitting?

I am not quitting immediately but will likely be gone within the next year if my plan works out.

I wish you the best, I hope in your next career move you can eventually end up making 450k nearing the end.
Many AC pilots will make over 300k for many years before they can make widebody Captain.
I honestly thought year 1 would be 100k minimum and am a little surprised but at the end of the day, there is only three years until next round of negotiations, it would be a difficult decision to quit and give up the future earnings unless it’s to go fly for a U.S major.
Good luck to you

The US is my plan. If I succeed I will help others at Canadian airlines come over. It's not just the lower pay in Canada but also higher cost of living and taxes - hard to get ahead for young people in this country.

[RippleRock]

.

[RippleRock]

Sure they will. Glad you have the inside scoop!

Numbers don’t lie. How do you think every other crappy CA passed?

Just like how nobody likes Nickelback or Taylor Swift but their sales say otherwise.

The genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back. It will pass, but narrowly. And it will be studied in business schools for decades to come as a near perfect contract negotiation.... from management.

Heard a rumor that management side of the table was at Arizona's last night in good spirits... Maybe that's just a rumor, but I doubt anyone from the union was feeling very celebrative last night.

In the end, the MEC members that voted to send this to the pilots (I understand there were six) squandered a once in a generation opertunity, and should feel nothing but shame for the rest of their careers; they sold out not only their own pilots, but all Canadian pilots. When it was time to stare into the abyss, the abyss stared back... Time for 5200 other pilots to do the same, what truths will you discover about yourself when you cast your vote?

So this is new.

Apparently the Liberal Labour Minister was in the negotiating room with both the Company and our MEC. He apparently threatened forced arbitration if they didn't come to a deal before midnight. If we had refused, and walked out of the room, our old agreement (10 year deal) would have been used as a template for Arbitration, all the gains we has negotiated over the last year would have been cast aside.

Now.....if we vote NO, the current TA will be our template moving forward, not our 10 year deal. We have NOTHING TO LOSE voting no, only stuff to gain. The Media will be all over us for saying no, but they need to understand that this deal is "nowhere near" our American counterparts. Nowhere near.

Our MEC was torn under threat, but they did NOT unanimously support this TA, only enough to send it out for a vote to avoid arbitration. They have been ominously silent since. This alone speaks volumes.

Make your choice. Christmas would be an ideal time to ramp up pressure for another strike.

I am happy to wait for the "retro cheque" to get some serious QOL improvements and the Junior wages up. Let's see how many pilots agree.

[truedude]

Numbers don’t lie. How do you think every other crappy CA passed?

Just like how nobody likes Nickelback or Taylor Swift but their sales say otherwise.

The genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back. It will pass, but narrowly. And it will be studied in business schools for decades to come as a near perfect contract negotiation.... from management.

Heard a rumor that management side of the table was at Arizona's last night in good spirits... Maybe that's just a rumor, but I doubt anyone from the union was feeling very celebrative last night.

In the end, the MEC members that voted to send this to the pilots (I understand there were six) squandered a once in a generation opertunity, and should feel nothing but shame for the rest of their careers; they sold out not only their own pilots, but all Canadian pilots. When it was time to stare into the abyss, the abyss stared back... Time for 5200 other pilots to do the same, what truths will you discover about yourself when you cast your vote?

So this is new.

Apparently the Liberal Labour Minister was in the negotiating room with both the Company and our MEC. He apparently threatened forced arbitration if they didn't come to a deal before midnight. If we had refused, and walked out of the room, our old agreement (10 year deal) would have been used as a template for Arbitration, all the gains we has negotiated over the last year would have been cast aside.

Now.....if we vote NO, the current TA will be our template moving forward, not our 10 year deal. We have NOTHING TO LOSE voting no, only stuff to gain. The Media will be all over us for saying no, but the need to understand that this deal is "nowhere near" our American counterparts. Nowhere near.

Make your choice. Christmas would be an ideal time to ramp up pressure for another strike.

I am happy to wait for the "retro cheque". Let's see how many pilots agree.

He would have had to use section 107 again. No guarantee the CIRB would have rubber stamped it. And nearly a 100% chance the courts would overturn it, putting everyone right back at a strike position. And if he did this, then ALPA makes it public knowledge, as it directly contradicts what he has been saying since.

[RippleRock]

The genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back. It will pass, but narrowly. And it will be studied in business schools for decades to come as a near perfect contract negotiation.... from management.

Heard a rumor that management side of the table was at Arizona's last night in good spirits... Maybe that's just a rumor, but I doubt anyone from the union was feeling very celebrative last night.

In the end, the MEC members that voted to send this to the pilots (I understand there were six) squandered a once in a generation opertunity, and should feel nothing but shame for the rest of their careers; they sold out not only their own pilots, but all Canadian pilots. When it was time to stare into the abyss, the abyss stared back... Time for 5200 other pilots to do the same, what truths will you discover about yourself when you cast your vote?

So this is new.

Apparently the Liberal Labour Minister was in the negotiating room with both the Company and our MEC. He apparently threatened forced arbitration if they didn't come to a deal before midnight. If we had refused, and walked out of the room, our old agreement (10 year deal) would have been used as a template for Arbitration, all the gains we has negotiated over the last year would have been cast aside.

Now.....if we vote NO, the current TA will be our template moving forward, not our 10 year deal. We have NOTHING TO LOSE voting no, only stuff to gain. The Media will be all over us for saying no, but the need to understand that this deal is "nowhere near" our American counterparts. Nowhere near.

Make your choice. Christmas would be an ideal time to ramp up pressure for another strike.

I am happy to wait for the "retro cheque". Let's see how many pilots agree.

He would have had to use section 107 again. No guarantee the CIRB would have rubber stamped it. And nearly a 100% chance the courts would overturn it, putting everyone right back at a strike position. And if he did this, then ALPA makes it public knowledge, as it directly contradicts what he has been saying since.

The Liberal government works in mysterious ways. Take a listen to Justin video about "not interfering"......."unless" we can't come to a negotiated settlement. He was 100% ready to interfere, and sent his Minister in to do just that. He should NOT have been in the room.

[digits_]

Numbers don’t lie. How do you think every other crappy CA passed?

Just like how nobody likes Nickelback or Taylor Swift but their sales say otherwise.

The genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back. It will pass, but narrowly. And it will be studied in business schools for decades to come as a near perfect contract negotiation.... from management.

Heard a rumor that management side of the table was at Arizona's last night in good spirits... Maybe that's just a rumor, but I doubt anyone from the union was feeling very celebrative last night.

In the end, the MEC members that voted to send this to the pilots (I understand there were six) squandered a once in a generation opertunity, and should feel nothing but shame for the rest of their careers; they sold out not only their own pilots, but all Canadian pilots. When it was time to stare into the abyss, the abyss stared back... Time for 5200 other pilots to do the same, what truths will you discover about yourself when you cast your vote?

So this is new.

Apparently the Liberal Labour Minister was in the negotiating room with both the Company and our MEC. He apparently threatened forced arbitration if they didn't come to a deal before midnight. If we had refused, and walked out of the room, our old agreement (10 year deal) would have been used as a template for Arbitration, all the gains we has negotiated over the last year would have been cast aside.

Now.....if we vote NO, the current TA will be our template moving forward, not our 10 year deal. We have NOTHING TO LOSE voting no, only stuff to gain. The Media will be all over us for saying no, but the need to understand that this deal is "nowhere near" our American counterparts. Nowhere near.

Make your choice. Christmas would be an ideal time to ramp up pressure for another strike.

I am happy to wait for the "retro cheque". Let's see how many pilots agree.

Even then, would the company have objected to give FOs a bigger raise if the captains got a bit less? Or give them all the same absolute number extra instead of basing it on percentages? I'd say that's completely on ALPA.

[rookiepilot]

Numbers don’t lie. How do you think every other crappy CA passed?

Just like how nobody likes Nickelback or Taylor Swift but their sales say otherwise.

The genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back. It will pass, but narrowly. And it will be studied in business schools for decades to come as a near perfect contract negotiation.... from management.

Heard a rumor that management side of the table was at Arizona's last night in good spirits... Maybe that's just a rumor, but I doubt anyone from the union was feeling very celebrative last night.

In the end, the MEC members that voted to send this to the pilots (I understand there were six) squandered a once in a generation opertunity, and should feel nothing but shame for the rest of their careers; they sold out not only their own pilots, but all Canadian pilots. When it was time to stare into the abyss, the abyss stared back... Time for 5200 other pilots to do the same, what truths will you discover about yourself when you cast your vote?

So this is new.

Apparently the Liberal Labour Minister was in the negotiating room with both the Company and our MEC. He apparently threatened forced arbitration if they didn't come to a deal before midnight. If we had refused, and walked out of the room, our old agreement (10 year deal) would have been used as a template for Arbitration, all the gains we has negotiated over the last year would have been cast aside.

Now.....if we vote NO, the current TA will be our template moving forward, not our 10 year deal. We have NOTHING TO LOSE voting no, only stuff to gain. The Media will be all over us for saying no, but the need to understand that this deal is "nowhere near" our American counterparts. Nowhere near.

Make your choice. Christmas would be an ideal time to ramp up pressure for another strike.

I am happy to wait for the "retro cheque". Let's see how many pilots agree.

What a surprise. But they are on your side, LOL

[Ash Ketchum]

We should have went on strike anyways regardless of what they ordered, like others said they would need CIRB approval to force us back to work which may not have happened. I feel like we lost our ability to strike now and even with a no vote on the TA we will likely go into binding arbitration with minimal gains to be expected. Still a no vote for me regardless.

[Canadaflyer46]

IMG_4282.jpeg (144 KiB) Viewed 1559 times

Haha. They created a side-by-side with Delta rates in different currencies and said they’re only 6% behind. The MEC literally don’t understand how exchange rates work, or they’re trying to pull the wool over your eyes for their shitty TA. What an embarrassing spreadsheet to create to attempt to polish a turd.

[phenix]

“Dollar for dollar”, but not the same dollar haha.
It’s too bad they didn’t put the AC salaries in Mexican pesos, that would have been a real World Class Contract

[rudder]

Numbers don’t lie. How do you think every other crappy CA passed?

Just like how nobody likes Nickelback or Taylor Swift but their sales say otherwise.

The genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back. It will pass, but narrowly. And it will be studied in business schools for decades to come as a near perfect contract negotiation.... from management.

Heard a rumor that management side of the table was at Arizona's last night in good spirits... Maybe that's just a rumor, but I doubt anyone from the union was feeling very celebrative last night.

In the end, the MEC members that voted to send this to the pilots (I understand there were six) squandered a once in a generation opertunity, and should feel nothing but shame for the rest of their careers; they sold out not only their own pilots, but all Canadian pilots. When it was time to stare into the abyss, the abyss stared back... Time for 5200 other pilots to do the same, what truths will you discover about yourself when you cast your vote?

So this is new.

Apparently the Liberal Labour Minister was in the negotiating room with both the Company and our MEC. He apparently threatened forced arbitration if they didn't come to a deal before midnight. If we had refused, and walked out of the room, our old agreement (10 year deal) would have been used as a template for Arbitration, all the gains we has negotiated over the last year would have been cast aside.

Now.....if we vote NO, the current TA will be our template moving forward, not our 10 year deal. We have NOTHING TO LOSE voting no, only stuff to gain. The Media will be all over us for saying no, but they need to understand that this deal is "nowhere near" our American counterparts. Nowhere near.

Our MEC was torn under threat, but they did NOT unanimously support this TA, only enough to send it out for a vote to avoid arbitration. They have been ominously silent since. This alone speaks volumes.

Make your choice. Christmas would be an ideal time to ramp up pressure for another strike.

I am happy to wait for the "retro cheque" to get some serious QOL improvements and the Junior wages up. Let's see how many pilots agree.

Almost a repeat of 2010 for Jazz and 2012 for ACPA, courtesy of the then Conservatives.

Times change. Politicians don’t. They will do what is politically expedient, not morally, ethically, or (perhaps) legally right.

[rudder]

We should have went on strike anyways regardless of what they ordered, like others said they would need CIRB approval to force us back to work which may not have happened. I feel like we lost our ability to strike now and even with a no vote on the TA we will likely go into binding arbitration with minimal gains to be expected. Still a no vote for me regardless.

Game Theory - take the worst possible outcome out of play.

Mission accomplished.

Now the pilots need to do their part in the upcoming ratification vote.

[truedude]

IMG_4282.jpeg

Haha. They created a side-by-side with Delta rates in different currencies and said they’re only 6% behind. The MEC literally don’t understand how exchange rates work, or they’re trying to pull the wool over your eyes for their shitty TA. What an embarrassing spreadsheet to create to attempt to polish a turd.

Maybe it is meant to piss you off.... and vote accordingly.

[rudder]

IMG_4282.jpeg

Haha. They created a side-by-side with Delta rates in different currencies and said they’re only 6% behind. The MEC literally don’t understand how exchange rates work, or they’re trying to pull the wool over your eyes for their shitty TA. What an embarrassing spreadsheet to create to attempt to polish a turd.

Maybe it is meant to piss you off.... and vote accordingly.

Considering the number of 777’s at AC vs NB, one could say the charts should have the desired effect.

I won’t even start with the FO comparison which even Helen Keller would recognize to be an absurd result.