TA

[TheStig]

I'm going to wade into the swamp. I can't believe how quickly everyone has gotten the pitch forks and torches out, every pilot is 100% entitled to their vote; but the amount of slander, speculation and misinformation that's been spread in 12 hours is a disservice to yourself. History may not repeat itself but it rhymes and I feel like anyone that was here for the 2011 TA has seen this all before. There isn't nearly enough information available in a 9 page brief to have any idea what is contained in this TA, attend a roadshow, make an informed decision.

[rudder]

It’s so curious that airlines is the only place in the world where unions increase wage disparity rather than compressing it like in almost every other industry.

Interesting idea. At the railway, everyone makes the same for the service they provide in their position. Engineers who drive make more than conductors who are working the ground who make more thane brakeman who have a bit less responsibility but do similar work. The difference seniority brings is schedule, types of runs, vacation, overtime availability, etc which often did make a difference in pay. But job for job, hour for hour, everyone made the same.

It isn’t ‘the airline industry’.

It is just the airline industry ‘in Canada’. Totally self-inflicted.

[khedrei]

True.

[Flight94]

Zero surprises here.

This will pass. For every vocal senior captain on here sticking to principle.. there’s ten more who only care about money.

Just like the US gerontocracy.. senior captains will vote for their big raises to cash out for their last few years because they “deserve it” and leave the problems of low pay to someone else.

I agree. Unfortunate, because I fly for an ALPA 705 and this contract would influence ours which is coming up.

You guys that fly with senior captains and think they are on your side, you know they are already spending that 425/hr on their 2nd retirement home in the carribean. If you're one of the genuine ones, then good for you.

Greed always wins.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Zero surprises here.

This will pass. For every vocal senior captain on here sticking to principle.. there’s ten more who only care about money.

Just like the US gerontocracy.. senior captains will vote for their big raises to cash out for their last few years because they “deserve it” and leave the problems of low pay to someone else.

I agree. Unfortunate, because I fly for an ALPA 705 and this contract would influence ours which is coming up.

You guys that fly with senior captains and think they are on your side, you know they are already spending that 425/hr on their 2nd retirement home in the carribean. If you're one of the genuine ones, then good for you.

Greed always wins.

Or paying off the ex wives

[daedalusx]

[newlygrounded]

It’s so curious that airlines is the only place in the world where unions increase wage disparity rather than compressing it like in almost every other industry.

TBH find me a single union in Canada doing a good job for their *average* workers? Though I think they're 100% necessary in any sort of safety field. (power, trains, planes, etc)

The public sector unions didn't get to keep WFH, grocery store unions don't do ANYTHING for their members, cupe screaming about a war and muting members who want to focus or their own bargaining issues.

They seem to exist only to protect the worst members

[daedalusx]

It’s so curious that airlines is the only place in the world where unions increase wage disparity rather than compressing it like in almost every other industry.

TBH find me a single union in Canada doing a good job for their *average* workers? Though I think they're 100% necessary in any sort of safety field. (power, trains, planes, etc)

The public sector unions didn't get to keep WFH, grocery store unions don't do ANYTHING for their members, cupe screaming about a war and muting members who want to focus or their own bargaining issues.

They seem to exist only to protect the worst members

IUEC Elevator Union
120K a year + bennies + pension.

[newlygrounded]

It’s so curious that airlines is the only place in the world where unions increase wage disparity rather than compressing it like in almost every other industry.

TBH find me a single union in Canada doing a good job for their *average* workers? Though I think they're 100% necessary in any sort of safety field. (power, trains, planes, etc)

The public sector unions didn't get to keep WFH, grocery store unions don't do ANYTHING for their members, cupe screaming about a war and muting members who want to focus or their own bargaining issues.

They seem to exist only to protect the worst members

IUEC Elevator Union
120K a year + bennies + pension.

fair though they're so "good" it's the point of extortionate with how long it takes to repair elevators in Canada now

[LongHaul89]

I'm going to wade into the swamp. I can't believe how quickly everyone has gotten the pitch forks and torches out, every pilot is 100% entitled to their vote; but the amount of slander, speculation and misinformation that's been spread in 12 hours is a disservice to yourself. History may not repeat itself but it rhymes and I feel like anyone that was here for the 2011 TA has seen this all before. There isn't nearly enough information available in a 9 page brief to have any idea what is contained in this TA, attend a roadshow, make an informed decision.

So you think ALPA decided to hide all the good stuff in a 9 page brief and just share the lame excuse for a TA

[khedrei]

TBH find me a single union in Canada doing a good job for their *average* workers? Though I think they're 100% necessary in any sort of safety field. (power, trains, planes, etc)

The public sector unions didn't get to keep WFH, grocery store unions don't do ANYTHING for their members, cupe screaming about a war and muting members who want to focus or their own bargaining issues.

They seem to exist only to protect the worst members

IUEC Elevator Union
120K a year + bennies + pension.

fair though they're so "good" it's the point of extortionate with how long it takes to repair elevators in Canada now

I know when I got stuck it took like 45 minutes. I didn't find that to be too bad.

[khedrei]

I'm going to wade into the swamp. I can't believe how quickly everyone has gotten the pitch forks and torches out, every pilot is 100% entitled to their vote; but the amount of slander, speculation and misinformation that's been spread in 12 hours is a disservice to yourself. History may not repeat itself but it rhymes and I feel like anyone that was here for the 2011 TA has seen this all before. There isn't nearly enough information available in a 9 page brief to have any idea what is contained in this TA, attend a roadshow, make an informed decision.

So you think ALPA decided to hide all the good stuff in a 9 page brief and just share the lame excuse for a TA

Not only that, but the wages are enough to vote no. Captains getting a raise worth 1.3 times the FOs entire new salary. It's sick.

[Launchpad1]

This will pass. For every vocal senior captain on here sticking to principle.. there’s ten more who only care about money.

Ah but every vote is equal and probably 50% of the AC workforce was hired in the last 3 years.

[rudder]

This will pass. For every vocal senior captain on here sticking to principle.. there’s ten more who only care about money.

Ah but every vote is equal and probably 50% of the AC workforce was hired in the last 3 years.

If this POS passes at 50%+1 (which is typically the company objective as it represents the lowest value TA) then you will have the most divided pilot group in the history of ALPA.

Good luck finding a year 1-4 FO/RP that will go for a beer with you. Better take a screen shot of your ‘no’ vote.

Perhaps there is more than meets the eye going on here, but on its face this is a train wreck.

Doing something good for the industry also means doing something good for your workmates. This is not good for a huge segment of the AC pilot workforce. It looks like a collection of all of the mistakes from the past.

The company has made it clear how it values the current year 1-4 pilots at AC, and all of the new hires to come under this TA. How do YOU value them?

[khedrei]

This will pass. For every vocal senior captain on here sticking to principle.. there’s ten more who only care about money.

Ah but every vote is equal and probably 50% of the AC workforce was hired in the last 3 years.

If this POS passes at 50%+1 (which is typically the company objective as it represents the lowest value TA) then you will have the most divided pilot group in the history of ALPA.

Good luck finding a year 1-4 FO/RP that will go for a beer with you. Better take a screen shot of your ‘no’ vote.

Perhaps there is more than meets the eye going on here, but on its face this is a train wreck.

Doing something good for the industry also means doing something good for your workmates. This is not good for a huge segment of the AC pilot workforce. It looks like a collection of all of the mistakes from the past.

The company has made it clear how it values the current year 1-4 pilots at AC, and all of the new hires to come under this TA. How do YOU value them?

Well said! I'd very much enjoy seeing new hire classes dry up to nothing. Enough that the classrooms start growing mold.

[‘Bob’]

Other than WB CA (including 767F), where are the ‘yes’ votes going to come from?

Due to threats of frozen bank accounts and being trampled by horses?

Good thing it’s not tear gas and rubber bullets.

[onspeed]

For those qualified its time to look at the US via the EB-2 Visa.

For some reason we can't seem to get it done in this country, yesterday they were saying how far apart they were, without evening issuing 72 hr notice for a strike you get this. There is a massive divergence between what you were being sold on and what you ended up getting offered. If you value yourself as a professional pilot working for Canada's top airline, i'm not sure how you swallow this.

[CaptDukeNukem]

IUEC Elevator Union
120K a year + bennies + pension.

fair though they're so "good" it's the point of extortionate with how long it takes to repair elevators in Canada now

I know when I got stuck it took like 45 minutes. I didn't find that to be too bad.

Can they fix the ones at Pearson?

[Pilotguy007]

WoldAss contract. Enjoy sim outta block and no commuter policy. What a flop. Only good thing is money for the top end. Good job ALPA. Pilots now it's your job to turn this down. You deserve better.

[digits_]

Note that you don't have to pay union dues, there's usually an option to pay a charity instead. Perhaps that's something ALPA would be sensitive to?

Then again 1 WB captain salary pays the same dues as 4 FOs on flat pay now?

[rookiepilot]

Other than WB CA (including 767F), where are the ‘yes’ votes going to come from?

Due to threats of frozen bank accounts and being trampled by horses?

Good thing it’s not tear gas and rubber bullets.

That was awesome.

Didn’t afterwards have the riots Vancouver had. Now need to bring kettling and tear gas onto university campuses….

[apetogetherstrong]

Looking forward to the YES vote Shills gonna shill.

[truedude]

Looking forward to the YES vote Shills gonna shill.

55% yes is my guess. I hope I'm wrong.... But what a way to waste a once in a generation opertunity. A united pilot group. Record profits. And a goverment in complete disarray.

The pay table should be the same as Delta but in Canadian dollars. That alone still gives AC a massive leg up. And then better commuting rules, hotels, bidding, training paid for and in the window... the list goes on.

I guess you can take AC out of ACPA, but you can't get the ACPA mentality out of AC MEC.

[cjp]

For those qualified its time to look at the US via the EB-2 Visa.

For some reason we can't seem to get it done in this country, yesterday they were saying how far apart they were, without evening issuing 72 hr notice for a strike you get this. There is a massive divergence between what you were being sold on and what you ended up getting offered. If you value yourself as a professional pilot working for Canada's top airline, i'm not sure how you swallow this.

Missed the demand and opportunity window - companies have halted hiring or are laying off, they are about 8 months behind Canada with recession. Rates still through the roof and fear has taken hold, despite travel being strong.

Likely will be voting in a President who is not immigrant or Canada friendly.

EB-2 is not a solution, just Harvey law groups wet dream.

[onspeed]

The EB-2 takes time if your qualified, 2 yrs plus to go through all the hoops. We'll see the number pick up over the next year as more and more who got the Visa get green cards.