When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

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When will ALPA agree to a TA?

Prior to Strike Notice Being Issued
22
31%
Day 1 of Strike Notice
4
6%
Day 2 of Strike Notice
0
No votes
Day 3 of Strike Notice
23
32%
Day 1 of Strike
1
1%
Day 2 of Strike
3
4%
Day 3 of Strike
7
10%
By end of Week 1 of Strike
7
10%
Week 2 of Strike
2
3%
Greater than 2 Weeks of Strike
2
3%
 
Total votes: 71

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rookiepilot
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by rookiepilot »

‘Bob’ wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 10:23 am
cdnavater wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 10:28 am
dontcallmeshirley wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 10:14 am Feeling the room. I personally think that the ACAMEC will accept a TA prior to a strike occuring, but after the strike notice is filed.
That’s a question with no possible answer, it will depend on many variables, most Importantly what AC offers and how long they wait.
Right now it appears they are hitching their hopes to a failing Liberal government!
What do the Liberals have to do with any of this?

Remember when the Conservatives wouldnt let you strike?
Keep your Harper, Mulroney and other ancient past, irrelevant conservative hating nonsense political views off this thread.

The only one to be held to account here is the government of the last 9 years, something a lot of people seem to be need to reminded of.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by Daniel Cooper »

dontcallmeshirley wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:39 am Here's an idea for you: accept that some people have differing opinions and try to understand their experiences that lead them to those conclusions. I might be wrong, but there is a non-zero chance that I am correct to any degree.
I think the question is why you would go on a forum for Air Canada pilots and express these opinions.
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Bede
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by Bede »

Daniel Cooper wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:54 am
dontcallmeshirley wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:39 am Here's an idea for you: accept that some people have differing opinions and try to understand their experiences that lead them to those conclusions. I might be wrong, but there is a non-zero chance that I am correct to any degree.
I think the question is why you would go on a forum for Air Canada pilots and express these opinions.
Maybe because this is an Air Canada forum and a diversity of opinions is good? Personally, I think the AC pilots will do very well provided the government keeps their hands out of it, but if someone thinks they won't, whatever.
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altiplano
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by altiplano »

The next move is going to be masterful. Company will be boxed into a corner on their response.

Game. Set...
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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

Bede wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 12:08 pm
Daniel Cooper wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:54 am
dontcallmeshirley wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:39 am Here's an idea for you: accept that some people have differing opinions and try to understand their experiences that lead them to those conclusions. I might be wrong, but there is a non-zero chance that I am correct to any degree.
I think the question is why you would go on a forum for Air Canada pilots and express these opinions.
Maybe because this is an Air Canada forum and a diversity of opinions is good? Personally, I think the AC pilots will do very well provided the government keeps their hands out of it, but if someone thinks they won't, whatever.
It seems that there are some people here who don't like opinions that differ from their own. I appreciate that you are not one of those people.
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itsgrosswhatinet
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by itsgrosswhatinet »

Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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rudder
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by rudder »

Bede wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 10:59 am
‘Bob’ wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 10:23 am What do the Liberals have to do with any of this?

Remember when the Conservatives wouldnt let you strike?
Important difference is that in 2013, AC was on the verge of CCAA 2.0 and the union negotiated a TA. In this case, Air Canada is swimming in $2B in profits. Also, the SCC hadn't yet clarified a Charter right to strike yet.
Just for historical clarity…. AC was in fact on the verge of filing again for CCAA in 2008/2009. That was the timeframe when Monte Brewer was replaced by CR and he was able to pull a rabbit out of the hat and avoid the filing (major issues at the time were the terms of the cc processing agreement and OSFI over pension finding obligations).

I believe the CBA in 2012 was resolved by the legislated FOS, and then 2015 produced the now infamous “10 year deal” which was ratified by the AC pilots.

Regardless, AC brags now about ‘cash on hand’. CCAA isn’t even remotely a concern, with or without a pilot strike.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by ysogk1 »

khedrei wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 11:39 am
joefo wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 11:08 am
dontcallmeshirley wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 10:27 am

Nervous, no. I stand by my earlier statement of my expectation that the ACAMEC will get a starting salary of 75-85 per year. I also believe that they will not actually strike and will call off a strike notice by 10:30PM on the eve of the strike.
And what is it that makes you think ACAMEC will get a starting salary below Porter, WJ and Flair? That’s just delusional
80k would put them below flair only. WJ and porter start lower than 80k.
And even Morningstar pilots starts above 92k on day1...
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loose
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by loose »

ysogk1 wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 7:10 pm
khedrei wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 11:39 am
joefo wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 11:08 am

And what is it that makes you think ACAMEC will get a starting salary below Porter, WJ and Flair? That’s just delusional
80k would put them below flair only. WJ and porter start lower than 80k.
And even Morningstar pilots starts above 92k on day1...
85-86k I believe, 120k by yr 4-5. They got a good carrot on display there so long an fo stays 2-4 yrs they make their money, don’t seem too desperate for left seaters. 145k yr 1 skipper, no seniority credits, u literally start yr 1 even after 100 yrs on property. Not exactly a comparison for ac situation.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

loose wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 7:31 pm
ysogk1 wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 7:10 pm
khedrei wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 11:39 am

80k would put them below flair only. WJ and porter start lower than 80k.
And even Morningstar pilots starts above 92k on day1...
85-86k I believe, 120k by yr 4-5. They got a good carrot on display there so long an fo stays 2-4 yrs they make their money, don’t seem too desperate for left seaters. 145k yr 1 skipper, no seniority credits, u literally start yr 1 even after 100 yrs on property. Not exactly a comparison for ac situation.
Ya. And enjoy the commute. Zero travel perks, other than on own aircraft.

It’s super quiet on com 1 at 3 am.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by Gonzodriver »

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dontcallmeshirley
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

Typical ALPA. They took a deal well before the company felt any heat.

I truly hope that you all got what you want.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by daedalusx »

Zero chance that this is a world standard contract.


CUCKED
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Hangry
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by Hangry »

So pathetic. Complete embarrassment. Totally disgusting. Sulk away like you should. Anyone need a dumb lanyard for kindling?

What a let down. I'm embarrassed I expected more.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by sullecpt »

WestJet 2.0

I never want to hear " World class contract" again in my life.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by 2112 »

Well that's disappointing, you had all the leverage. I hope this gets a 98% no vote. This is your only shot and it's slipping away.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

I feel like ALPA pilots did all this on 121.5.
Where no one is actively listening. We’re there but low volume. Enjoy the flat pay
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by dontcallmeshirley »

sullecpt wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 2:34 am WestJet 2.0

I never want to hear " World class contract" again in my life.
Happened with WestJet. Happened with Encore. Happened with Air Canada.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by daedalusx »

dontcallmeshirley wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 6:54 am
sullecpt wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 2:34 am WestJet 2.0

I never want to hear " World class contract" again in my life.
Happened with WestJet. Happened with Encore. Happened with Air Canada.
Happened with Jazz
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by Stratopaused »

Where are all the guys who were insulting WestJet and Encore pilots for not striking? Where is everyone who was adamant that all Canadian pilots should be applying at AC because flat pay was going away and wages were doubling? Can we get a compilation of all those hot takes?
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by khedrei »

If they had any decency they would apologize and admit AC is no different.

Maybe they are waiting for it to get voted in and then they will apologize? I mean, FO making 57k in YYZ gets a raise to 78k meanwhile a captain making 250k gets a raise to 350k...

Think about that. The captain is getting a RAISE worth 1.3 times the FOs entire new salary.

Anyone who votes yes to this deserves to rot for their greed.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by thepoors »

Stratopaused wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:21 pm Where are all the guys who were insulting WestJet and Encore pilots for not striking? Where is everyone who was adamant that all Canadian pilots should be applying at AC because flat pay was going away and wages were doubling? Can we get a compilation of all those hot takes?
I'll own it. I was one of the guys calling out WJ.

Well, turns out we're the biggest cucks of all. Made to look like complete fools by this MEC. One of the biggest sell jobs/bait and switch/slap in the face/whatever you want to call it, I've ever seen. All the talk, all the hype it was nothing but lies and bullshit. We wore the lanyards, went to the picket, gave them a 98% strike mandate. They returned this steaming pile of a TA without even giving strike notice. Tossed away every bit of leverage we had, for what exactly? So the rich guys can get richer and FOs at this company can continue to visit the food bank. Zero QOL improvements, if not some steps backward in that regard.

Absolutely disgusting. Heads should roll at ALPA for this, but of course they won't. I'll stop here before I say anything unsavoury about our esteemed MEC chair and negotiating committee. :roll: The TA speaks for itself and the company is, without a doubt, laughing at us.
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Last edited by thepoors on Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by stall »

Stratopaused wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:21 pm Where are all the guys who were insulting WestJet and Encore pilots for not striking? Where is everyone who was adamant that all Canadian pilots should be applying at AC because flat pay was going away and wages were doubling? Can we get a compilation of all those hot takes?
What is common here...4 letters...ALPA

Whoever from ALPA is advising the pilot groups...needs to be canned

What a crock
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by Ash Ketchum »

thepoors wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 7:46 pm
Stratopaused wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:21 pm Where are all the guys who were insulting WestJet and Encore pilots for not striking? Where is everyone who was adamant that all Canadian pilots should be applying at AC because flat pay was going away and wages were doubling? Can we get a compilation of all those hot takes?
I'll own it. I was one of the guys calling out WJ.

Well, turns out we're the biggest cucks of all. Made to look like complete fools by this MEC. One of the biggest sell jobs/bait and switch/slap in the face/whatever you want to call it, I've ever seen. All the talk, all the hype it was nothing but lies and bullshit. We wore the lanyards, went to the picket, gave them a 98% strike mandate. They returned this steaming pile of a TA without even giving strike notice. Tossed away every bit of leverage we had, for what exactly? So the rich guys can get richer and FOs at this company can continue to visit the food bank. Zero QOL improvements, if not some steps backward in that regard.

Absolutely disgusting. Heads should roll at ALPA for this, but of course they won't. I'll stop here before I say anything unsavoury about our esteemed MEC chair and negotiating committee. The TA speaks for itself and the company is, without a doubt, laughing at us.
Completely agree. It was great to see unity however I feel the pilot group was blindly trusting the MEC without seeing any results. When the time came they choked and didn't deliver. What an embarrassment. Those who need it most (flat pay FOs) go thrown under the bus and won't be able to pay their mortgages and feed their kids.
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Re: When Will ALPA Accept a Deal?

Post by khedrei »

Don't worry, your captain got a raise worth a lot more than you're entire new salary and he was already making 400% more than you anyway. AC can't say the didn't offer the money. It was the Union who helped decide who it went to. Too many 4 bars in the room on the union side.
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