SHOW UNITY. VOTE NO!

[Apestogetherstrong]

Tim Perry confirmed that in the event of a NO vote. The worst case scenario is arbitration. The arbitrator will make this TA the base line (confirmed by ALPA Presidente)

Dont leave any man behind. Show unity. Show respect for juniors. VOTE NO!

Charlene I have a message for you. Show true leadership by not abandoning ship before the battle begins. Your troops are counting on you. In the In the even of a No vote, we wont surrender. Thats the true ALPA warrior spirit

[BrassCraft]

Ditto!

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I will be voting no. Go back and try again. If that's too scary for this MEC please resign.

[loose]

What’s the worst that could happen if you disobey government orders to not strike? I only ask because I hear all this talk and fear about oh, government will do this & that, so what if you choose to walk out.

[freighter27]

It will be a very lonely walk, and pilots will look like a bunch of whiny cry babies, poor things with their guaranteed pay progression, and 40% raises

[Apestogetherstrong]

It will be a very lonely walk, and pilots will look like a bunch of whiny cry babies, poor things with their guaranteed pay progression, and 40% raises

Learn from Boeing

[freighter27]

Yes, Boeing, are they operating under Canadian labour laws? Do they have a government that is almost guaranteed to step in and force arbitration? Do they work in a country where the thought of anyone getting ahead is a immediate cause for jealousy?

The Liberal government would probably get a boost from taking on the 10-day-a-month, 400K salary, 12 yr pilots when they demand more and walk off the job. Trudeau and his minions have next to nothing to lose and a lot to gain by showing a bit of spine to that bunch of "elites".

[Humble]

Tim Perry confirmed that in the event of a NO vote. The worst case scenario is arbitration. The arbitrator will make this TA the base line (confirmed by ALPA Presidente)

Dont leave any man behind. Show unity. Show respect for juniors. VOTE NO!

Charlene I have a message for you. Show true leadership by not abandoning ship before the battle begins. Your troops are counting on you. In the In the even of a No vote, we wont surrender. Thats the true ALPA warrior spirit

We have to stop spreading rumors especially on public forums. Tim Perry did not say this and is actually upset this rumor is spreading. I would take a hard look at who provided this and take the emotion out of this hate speech.

Charlene is a strong leader and she did everything she could for us. We aren’t at war. She simply stated that she will step down because she does not represent the pilot group if it’s voted down. I get it and it makes sense. I hope that you volunteer for our next negotiations. I hope the treatment towards Charlene is reciprocated when you put in 15 months of your life negotiating with a company that doesn’t want to give anything. I challenge you to beat the 42% in 2027 and all the other WCC things you want.

No we did not get a “WCC” but for those of us that had realistic expectations this contract is more than what we expected. It’s a childish and immature view that we were going to get everything we wanted in negotiations agains AC. It’s a good starting point for the future of ALPA negotiations. A great baseline for you to start from in 2027.

[Dry Guy]

3 posts by this ID.

[sportingrifle]

Apestogetherstrong…..

Your post is a beautiful example of why people should be very skeptical of what they read on the internet. Everything you posted, including an attribution to Tim Perry, is flat out wrong.

Are you even an AC pilot? If you are you certainly were not around in 2012 when we did exactly what you suggest - and got our asses handed to us. For anyone who has had the misfortune to read the original post, here is the analysis from the lawyers sctually involved in this.

“We had a briefing from our external and internal ALPA arbitration lawyers Monday morning. Caley Wray managing partner Denis Ellickson and ALPA Arbitration Counsel Christina Kennedy.

In the event of failed TA, AC very likely to issue 72 hr lockout notice. Company will not come to the table with more money, they have MTC/FA contracts coming and it’ll be seen as rewarding bad behaviour to these groups.

Government intervention will be either interest based or Final Offer Selection arbitration. Both possible.

Absolute best case scenario we get exactly what was offered in the TA, with all articles in jeopardy. The Arbitrator will use replication, but any new language will not be included. It is unheard of for new language or concepts to continue in an arbitrated settlement. This includes TAFB, override, expedited arbitration, netline access, 36 hr deadhead release, ADG, OTS, Freezes, A10 ABD, GDIP, pension, health benefits, etc.

Collective Agreement and all provisions immediately do not apply. Company can change the working conditions as they see fit so long as they’re within Labour Code and CARs. This includes paying us minimum wage for the duration of arbitration proceedings, unless agreed to otherwise in an Arbitration Agreement.”

Their words, not mine.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Who are you quoting? Like what's their name?

[Apestogetherstrong]

Apestogetherstrong…..

Your post is a beautiful example of why people should be very skeptical of what they read on the internet. Everything you posted, including an attribution to Tim Perry, is flat out wrong.

Are you even an AC pilot? If you are you certainly were not around in 2012 when we did exactly what you suggest - and got our asses handed to us. For anyone who has had the misfortune to read the original post, here is the analysis from the lawyers sctually involved in this.

“We had a briefing from our external and internal ALPA arbitration lawyers Monday morning. Caley Wray managing partner Denis Ellickson and ALPA Arbitration Counsel Christina Kennedy.

In the event of failed TA, AC very likely to issue 72 hr lockout notice. Company will not come to the table with more money, they have MTC/FA contracts coming and it’ll be seen as rewarding bad behaviour to these groups.

Government intervention will be either interest based or Final Offer Selection arbitration. Both possible.

Absolute best case scenario we get exactly what was offered in the TA, with all articles in jeopardy. The Arbitrator will use replication, but any new language will not be included. It is unheard of for new language or concepts to continue in an arbitrated settlement. This includes TAFB, override, expedited arbitration, netline access, 36 hr deadhead release, ADG, OTS, Freezes, A10 ABD, GDIP, pension, health benefits, etc.

Collective Agreement and all provisions immediately do not apply. Company can change the working conditions as they see fit so long as they’re within Labour Code and CARs. This includes paying us minimum wage for the duration of arbitration proceedings, unless agreed to otherwise in an Arbitration Agreement.”

Their words, not mine.

Sorry but this is not true. Caley Wray is pretty upset that this is the rumour thats going around. She said this is absolute nonsense and is trying to see who spread this rumour.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Apestogetherstrong…..

Your post is a beautiful example of why people should be very skeptical of what they read on the internet. Everything you posted, including an attribution to Tim Perry, is flat out wrong.

Are you even an AC pilot? If you are you certainly were not around in 2012 when we did exactly what you suggest - and got our asses handed to us. For anyone who has had the misfortune to read the original post, here is the analysis from the lawyers sctually involved in this.

“We had a briefing from our external and internal ALPA arbitration lawyers Monday morning. Caley Wray managing partner Denis Ellickson and ALPA Arbitration Counsel Christina Kennedy.

In the event of failed TA, AC very likely to issue 72 hr lockout notice. Company will not come to the table with more money, they have MTC/FA contracts coming and it’ll be seen as rewarding bad behaviour to these groups.

Government intervention will be either interest based or Final Offer Selection arbitration. Both possible.

Absolute best case scenario we get exactly what was offered in the TA, with all articles in jeopardy. The Arbitrator will use replication, but any new language will not be included. It is unheard of for new language or concepts to continue in an arbitrated settlement. This includes TAFB, override, expedited arbitration, netline access, 36 hr deadhead release, ADG, OTS, Freezes, A10 ABD, GDIP, pension, health benefits, etc.

Collective Agreement and all provisions immediately do not apply. Company can change the working conditions as they see fit so long as they’re within Labour Code and CARs. This includes paying us minimum wage for the duration of arbitration proceedings, unless agreed to otherwise in an Arbitration Agreement.”

Their words, not mine.

Sorry but this is not true. Caley Wray is pretty upset that this is the rumour thats going around. She said this is absolute nonsense and is trying to see who spread this rumour.

[sportingrifle]

What I posted was re-iterated at the roadshow yesterday.
And fyi, Caley Wray is a law firm, not a person..

[co-joe]

What I posted was re-iterated at the roadshow yesterday.
And fyi, Caley Wray is a law firm, not a person..

Ape guy is WS, has at least 2 user names here, and he keeps getting them mixed up and arguing with himself. Pay no attention.

[SportingRifle.]

Just so it is clear...I vote yes to everything including the 10 yrs deal that made Air Canada pilots the laughing stock in the industry

So don't be surprised I'm pushing another yes vote out of fear cause that is just how this rifle roles.

[Blackdog0301]

Just so it is clear...I vote yes to everything including the 10 yrs deal that made Air Canada pilots the laughing stock in the industry

So don't be surprised I'm pushing another yes vote out of fear cause that is just how this rifle roles.

While I don't nessesarily agree with closing your eyes and voting yes just because, I do think that everyone that's voting should make a decision for themselves and not be influenced by other people's opinions. This is YOUR vote to cast, not your peers. Do your research, attend the road shows, ask questions, and weigh the gains and loses. Don't just vote no because the vocal few are voting no. Vote how you believe is appropriate. Because honestly, I believe every vote will count here... It'll be close.

Just my 2 cents.

[sportingrifle]

Sportingrifle is not a real member. It is some newly joined troll trying to make a sarcastic point to me.

The real sportingrifle.

[Ash Ketchum]

I'm voting no because in my opinion the TA is bad - especially for junior members. For me it's simple, I am voting based on the merits of the TA and not out of fear about what may happen if it gets voted down.

[Gregor]

Voting yes to this would make you part of the only individuals of any modern airline TA in North America to sell out your young, much as you have for the last 20 years at AC. It's a very unique title to hold as if you look everywhere else, that mentality has gone by the wayside. It's extinct.

But if we keep that alive in Canada, it's because of you. You'll be the last holdouts in the world of the reviled CARROT that was so entrenched here. Do you want to be that dinosaur?

Vote yes and you're not allowed to be critical of our industry again, and we'll all be destined for an eternity of Canadian aviation wages. Everyone coming up have to endure the same shit that you did, just because you did.

[khedrei]

Voting yes to this would make you part of the only individuals of any modern airline TA in North America to sell out your young, much as you have for the last 20 years at AC. It's a very unique title to hold as if you look everywhere else, that mentality has gone by the wayside. It's extinct.

But if we keep that alive in Canada, it's because of you. You'll be the last holdouts in the world of the reviled CARROT that was so entrenched here. Do you want to be that dinosaur?

Vote yes and you're not allowed to be critical of our industry again, and we'll all be destined for an eternity of Canadian aviation wages. Everyone coming up have to endure the same shit that you did, just because you did.

This is very well said. Most older people I know who had it tough growing up want better for their children than they had. Don't confuse that with "they want their kids to not know the value or be afraid of hard work". But somehow this industry seems ok with screwing the next generation because they got screwed.

Any union rep worth their salt would tell you to vote on the contract based on its merits, not based on what could happen if you don't vote yes. That's almost blackmail. Vote yes or else...

[Apestogetherstrong]

Hold the line!

[SportingRifle.]

Note there is a fake sportingrifle account who trolls here to push votes to sell out junior members. Huge fan of flat pay

[RippleRock]

I hate to flip-flop. I'm voting NO. I was waiting to see what would fall our way this week to sway the vote. Answer. NOT MUCH.

The company left too many "low to no cost items" on the table. Profit share jacked out of reach is just a nasty move akin to stripping us of our B1's. They haven't been returned either.

WE HAVE BEEN DISRESPECTED. I can NOT get that out of my head.


First thing Tuesday morning, I'm casting my F-NO ballot to this substandard AIP "steaming heap". Join me.




FWIW, 40% isn't anywhere near the 58% required to get us back to 2002 wages plus inflation alone. RETURNING TO A FORMER WAGE IS NOT A RAISE. Not even getting close to our "adjusted former wage" is another insult. Remember, this insult is being used as the biggest selling point.

F-the MEC for sending us this sell-out. Under the new terms, they get the biggest pay uplift of all. DO YOUR JOB THEN. Back to the table.

I'm going to feel way better about myself for voting with my "spidy senses" on this one, I bet you will as well.

[thepoors]

I hate to flip-flop. I'm voting NO. I was waiting to see what would fall our way this week to sway the vote. Answer. NOT MUCH.

The company left too many "low to no cost items" on the table. Profit share jacked out of reach is just a nasty move akin to stripping us of our B1's. They haven't been returned either.

WE HAVE BEEN DISRESPECTED. I can NOT get that out of my head.


First thing Tuesday morning, I'm casting my F-NO ballot to this substandard AIP "steaming heap". Join me.




FWIW, 40% isn't anywhere near the 58% required to get us back to 2002 wages plus inflation alone. RETURNING TO A FORMER WAGE IS NOT A RAISE. Not even getting close to our "adjusted former wage" is another insult. Remember, this insult is being used as the biggest selling point.

F-the MEC for sending us this sell-out. Under the new terms, they get the biggest pay uplift of all. DO YOUR JOB THEN. Back to the table.

I'm going to feel way better about myself for voting with my "spidy senses" on this one, I bet you will as well.

It's honestly insane that anyone would be swayed by these crumbs the company is throwing out to us outside of the contract. Anything not in the contract is not real. They can remove those things as easily as they've given them, whenever it suits them (exhibit A: B1 passes).

The fact that ALPA is endorsing these ongoing "negotiations" and selling us this fairy dust is stupidly unprofessional. They can not guarantee or enforce any of these items.

Where we go from here I have no idea. But I agree Ripple, this is just insulting. We are being taken for idiots.