67% yes

[thepoors]

Well, the trip down the gutter for Canadian aviation continues...

[Bede]

Well, the trip down the gutter for Canadian aviation continues...

Maybe respect the will of 2/3 of your colleagues.

Congrats to the AC pilots.

[khedrei]

I think the respect comment is in order but why would you congratulate that?? I'm sure everyone knows its likely the votes that brought it over 50% were fear votes.

There is nothing worth congratulating here.

[thepoors]

Well, the trip down the gutter for Canadian aviation continues...

Maybe respect the will of 2/3 of your colleagues.

Congrats to the AC pilots.

I think you mean 2/3rds of AC pilots don't care that the bottom 3rd are treading the poverty line...so much for unity. Don't start with me Bede. Your shilling is exhausting and you don't even work at AC.

[bcflyer]

I think the respect comment is in order but why would you congratulate that?? I'm sure everyone knows its likely the votes that brought it over 50% were fear votes.

There is nothing worth congratulating here.

Exactly. Nobody in the Canadian aviation industry should be celebrating. (Except those in management of course.) AC pilots sold out the rest of the country again.

[Aerkavo]

I think you mean 2/3rds of AC pilots don't care that the bottom 3rd are treading the poverty line...so much for unity.

About half of the YES voters I spoke with stated they were nervous (fearful) of facing an arbitrator. Whether that fear was justified we'll never know.
None said they didn't care about the junior members.

[rudder]

Well, the trip down the gutter for Canadian aviation continues...

In any normal course bargaining round, that ratification result would be considered a fail.

A fail by the negotiators and a fail by the leadership. Imagine leaving 33% of your membership behind? That is not just some typical 10% unsatisfiable segment of the group.

But in the alternate universe known as AC, it will be whitewashed and dismissed as ‘just some disgruntled milleniels’.

The corp’s winning streak continues. I wish the ACA leadership luck ever resurrecting the coalition that existed just prior to the AIP.

“We’ll get them next time!” Yeah. Sure.

[cdnavater]

I wrote this in another thread about this topic, I also voted on a between 65-70 pass in the survey. Yay me!

cdnavater wrote;
You are making some assumptions based on your situation, many, many pilots will be off flat pay if this passes. How many are going in to their fifth year, huge bump that year, on average from year 4 to 5 is a 50/hr increase. The no votes will mainly come from the pilots hired in the last two years, how many are they? Certainly not a majority, so the likelihood of this passing is in the neighborhood of 60%, it’s targeted as most contracts are, they give just enough to pass by a slim margin, any more than that is considered a fail by management!

Thepoor, you need to re-evaluate what the demographics are, 2/3 voted yes, meaning of the pilots hired in the last few years who no doubt suffered through flat pay, many of them voted yes!
It’s done now and all you can do is move forward, quit your whining and get on with life, let’s see who will put their money where their mouth is and quit!

[Bede]

I think you mean 2/3rds of AC pilots don't care that the bottom 3rd are treading the poverty line...so much for unity.

BS. You dont know what poverty is.

Don't start with me Bede. Your shilling is exhausting and you don't even work at AC.

Shilling for who? Our union?

[thepoors]

I think the respect comment is in order but why would you congratulate that?? I'm sure everyone knows its likely the votes that brought it over 50% were fear votes.

There is nothing worth congratulating here.

Exactly. Nobody in the Canadian aviation industry should be celebrating. (Except those in management of course.) AC pilots sold out the rest of the country again.

Can't wait to hear about the massive bonus Mikey will be getting after this landslide victory for AC management.

[Ash Ketchum]

what an embarrassment, time to polish up the resume and get out of this mess.

[thepoors]

Don't start with me Bede. Your shilling is exhausting and you don't even work at AC.

Shilling for who? Our union?

The union who lied for over a year and sold out it's membership for these meager "gains?" And then fear mongered about arbitration to persuade a yes vote? Yeah, that one.

[DanWEC]

There were plenty of higher time pilots at other airlines waiting for this result before deciding to either go to AC or head overseas.

Well, now you're going to see a chunk of guys going across the pond now.

[Aerkavo]

what an embarrassment, time to polish up the resume and get out of this mess.

A request for you. Keep in touch with your course mates from your new-hire class. Then, compare your situation in 5 years to see if you made the right choice. I'm curious how it works out for you - keep us informed.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Air Canada was my one hope that things can be better in this country. The low (starting pay) and (high) cost of living in YYZ, YVR, YUL just makes this unbearable.

Q: How will someone like me with a mortgage and a family be able to make this work? When is the reward no longer worth the effort? At what point does one say "The work/life balance" is not adequate for somone in my possition? How do I raise a family in the GTA? When will this "short term pain for long term gain" end?

A: It doesn't matter. There are plenty of young pilots that don't have those problems. There are plenty of them that live with mom and dad in YYZ and AC will NEVER be short on pilots. Like my dad put it "You missed the train, my son... Now you have to walk"

They (AC) knew that... and played their cards right.

I for one am at a loss of words...

[mijbil]

What is the cost right now (approximately) to get civil training at say a flight college like Seneca up to a CPL standard? What would the road to a major airline such as AC look like afterwards? Direct to AC or a regional such as Jazz and build PIC time on the side or 'work your way up" the older way and then to AC or similar?

Can an individual with the debt load for training (guessing at $130-150K) afford to live in YYZ or YVR or YUL on what has just been voted on and which has now set the bar at a certain level for all other operators?

Asking for those to whom I may or may not recommend this as an occupation.

[JustaCanadian]

Didn't 600 junior pilots get years of service? I would think that is meaningful and not something an arbitrator would really consider in a contract.

Anyways there is such thing as just a Canadian pilot. It's not that you are a pilot, it is in fact that you are Canadian. Canadians are different. Canadians love socialism, they love taxes. If we paid 10 percent more carbon tax we could have prevented hurricane Milton right?

The trend we are on has nothing to do with being pilots and everything to do with our country as a whole and our government. I'm sorry to say but Canadians have little interest in being more like America. Or they want to cherry pick the good things but ignore the bad. It's a package deal you get here.

Think of Jordan Petersons take on the several reasons women may be paid less in the workplace. The generalizations, such as being less competitive, more compassionate etc.

Canadains are more like women, Americans are more like Men when it comes to our political landscape. If you want to be paid like an American, take the package as whole and embrace what it means to be American.

[Bede]

The union who lied for over a year and sold out it's membership for these meager "gains?" And then fear mongered about arbitration to persuade a yes vote? Yeah, that one.

I make no apologies for supporting our union. My union speaks for me. They speak for me when I agree with them, and they speak for me when I don't. Welcome to trade unionism.

41% is not a meagre gain.

[bcflyer]

There were plenty of higher time pilots at other airlines waiting for this result before deciding to either go to AC or head overseas.

Well, now you're going to see a chunk of guys going across the pond now.

Sadly AC doesn’t care. They are happy to lower their hiring minimums to support the statement that they don’t have a pilot supply problem. The pressure on the training department to ensure a safe airline will only continue to go up.

[ads-b]

People are inherently selfish. This contract catered to 67% of the pilot group. People didn’t vote yes because they were afraid. They voted yes because it best suited them.

Happens all the time.

[bcflyer]

The union who lied for over a year and sold out it's membership for these meager "gains?" And then fear mongered about arbitration to persuade a yes vote? Yeah, that one.

I make no apologies for supporting our union. My union speaks for me. They speak for me when I agree with them, and they speak for me when I don't. Welcome to trade unionism.

41% is not a meagre gain.

The fact that a gain that large only results in being only 8% higher than the low cost carrier shows how far behind we were. Add in the give aways and it’s not nearly the flex you think it is.

[bcflyer]

People are inherently selfish. This contract catered to 67% of the pilot group. People didn’t vote yes because they were afraid. They voted yes because it best suited them.

Happens all the time.

Apparently you weren’t paying attention. The threats of “what if” swayed the vote of a large group of pilots. It was clearly a fear vote.
Don’t worry. We’ll get em next time.

[TCAS II]

Hope there are lessons learnt and won’t be repeated next time. Should be able to vote without any fear or threat from the government. Fair bargaining only happens when the government doesn’t make threats of back to work legislation and takes sides.

Labour negotiations need to change so that votes are based on merits of the TA only without fear.

1/3 pilots feel they are worth more. Much to fix next time.

[Mr.Worldwide]

42% over 4 years is a record deal. Just because it doesn't solve junior pay 100% to your satisfaction doesn't change the fact that this is an industry leading contract. Enjoy your 30% instant pay raise, your retro pay, and be ready to answer more surveys and picket again in 2.5 years. Rinse and repeat - welcome to ALPA.

[Aerkavo]

The threats of “what if” swayed the vote of a large group of pilots. It was clearly a fear vote.

Exactly. Many people were afraid and not for no good reason based on history.