YUL?

[co-joe]

Depending on seating variant, Qatar 777 hold anywhere from 335 to 412 pax...

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qatar ... mation.php

Flair has 2 departures today, July 1st out of YUL, according to the official YUL airport website

I'll let you do the math, but I think that fantasy kool-aid you're having is quite strong

OK, actually we had 5 departures with 838 passengers outbound (89% load factor), from YUL on July 1. How many did your airline fly?

[Tbayer2021]

Depending on seating variant, Qatar 777 hold anywhere from 335 to 412 pax...

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qatar ... mation.php

Flair has 2 departures today, July 1st out of YUL, according to the official YUL airport website

I'll let you do the math, but I think that fantasy kool-aid you're having is quite strong

OK, actually we had 5 departures with 838 passengers outbound (89% load factor), from YUL on July 1. How many did your airline fly?

Hold on a second. You actually think that 5 departures puts you at number 2? Serious question.

[twa22]

Depending on seating variant, Qatar 777 hold anywhere from 335 to 412 pax...

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qatar ... mation.php

Flair has 2 departures today, July 1st out of YUL, according to the official YUL airport website

I'll let you do the math, but I think that fantasy kool-aid you're having is quite strong

OK, actually we had 5 departures with 838 passengers outbound (89% load factor), from YUL on July 1. How many did your airline fly?

Sure, I won't dispute that, I just go by whatever info is available online

But you just proved your own point like tbayer said, do you REALLY think 5 flights a day puts you at number 2 for pax carried out of YUL... Really? Come on now, you can't be serious

And what relevence does it have on how many pax my airline carried? Do you realize that literally almost every airline out YUL carries more pax then flair, maybe you guys have westjet beat and that's about it, but I'm not going to sift through pax numbers, if you wanna believe you're number 2, I don't even think there's much else to say

[SPR]

By my count, Delta has 15 flights out of YUL today, and on some days they have 12 to LGA alone. American operates 13 out of YUL today. Transat is operating 9, including 7 domestic flights, with larger aircraft than Flair. Sunwing has 10, although none of them are domestic. Even Air Inuit has 8.

In comparison, for today, a regular Wednesday that's not a holiday, Flair has 4.

[Tbayer2021]

By my count, Delta has 15 flights out of YUL today, and on some days they have 12 to LGA alone. American operates 13 out of YUL today. Transat is operating 9, including 7 domestic flights, with larger aircraft than Flair. Sunwing has 10, although none of them are domestic. Even Air Inuit has 8.

In comparison, for today, a regular Wednesday that's not a holiday, Flair has 4.

co-joe has reached a new level a delusion. Clearly he takes everything management tells him at face value and doesn't question anything. To think Flair is the number two operator by flights or any similar metric is just wild. Transat alone has over 20 flights out of YUL today.

[SPR]

Well, I mean, let's be fair. If you only count domestic flights with destinations outside Quebec operated by 737s that departed Monday night between 2358 and 0000, then Flair was actually #1!

[cdnavater]

Flair has a whopping 1 flight out of YUL today, Westjet 20, so unless WJ load factor is 10% still not number anything.
I find it really funny that cojoe has not admitted his statement was completely false and keeps trying to prove the unprovable, it’s not nor has it ever been number 2 out of YUL and unless it’s the only airline at a particular airport, not likely anywhere else either!

[Timetoflyagain]

Well, I mean, let's be fair. If you only count domestic flights with destinations outside Quebec operated by 737s that departed Monday night between 2358 and 0000, then Flair was actually #1!

…you forgot to also say that also had a lime green paint job. Details..details….

[Tbayer2021]

I find it really funny that cojoe has not admitted his statement was completely false and keeps trying to prove the unprovable

That right there sums him up! And he never will. Adjectives such as misleading, deceptive, dishonest and more, come to mind when his name pops up. Him and his buddy, Tbaylx.

[co-joe]

I find it really funny that cojoe has not admitted his statement was completely false and keeps trying to prove the unprovable

That right there sums him up! And he never will. Adjectives such as misleading, deceptive, dishonest and more, come to mind when his name pops up. Him and his buddy, Tbaylx.

You guys are hilarious. Not one of you has done the math to show that your chosen airline has more capacity out of yul but your'e all happy to call out mine and few of you are right in there with the personal insults (classic keyboard warriors). I'm too busy to go down the road on a math project to argue with strangers on a web site that are just going to personally insult me yet not show their work.

I did look at AA who has an impressive 13 yul flights listed for today and although that sounds like a lot of capacity it's almost all small regional jets like the E145, and 175 with the largest narrow body being an A319 with 128 seats. I'll say this, AA has Flair beat today by a 787-9. Basic math; AA's total capacity today out of YUL is 1291 seats with a first quarter load factor that's 1033 seats, Flair's is 756. Clearly today AA is a much larger presence. Is it a seasonal market for them? Time will tell.

Likely I misquoted the stat, what was likely meant in the presentation I saw was that Flair is the second largest Canadian carrier out of YUL by number of passengers flown. The fact that I've got you all so riled up only proves we're on the right track here. As you were...

[DanWEC]

In the face of overwhelming logic you're putting the onus on everyone else to disprove your preposterous statement that Flair isn't, as touted, the #2 airline out of YUL?
Aside from that, I'll give credit for some progress- you admit you "might have" misquoted the stat, and constrained it to the #2 Canadian carrier...

So, with AC being #1 likely, You're sticking to your theory that Flair flies more passengers out of YUL than Porter, Transat, and WestJet? I think the only Canadian carrier with less flights is Lynx, with 2 x 737. You might not even be ahead of First Air or PAL, but it's close.
No personal insults here, and nothing against Flair, but all you have to do is take a quick look at the YUL site and you'll see a massive difference between Flair and all the others. No in-depth analysis required here.

Please don't ask me to provide the numbers for this, it's absurd. I don't have the time nor the inclination to present the obvious. You made the statement, you back it up, or just admit it was a total gaffe and move on.

[dontcallmeshirley]

In the face of overwhelming logic you're putting the onus on everyone else to disprove your preposterous statement that Flair isn't, as touted, the #2 airline out of YUL?
Aside from that, I'll give credit for some progress- you admit you "might have" misquoted the stat, and constrained it to the #2 Canadian carrier...

So, with AC being #1 likely, You're sticking to your theory that Flair flies more passengers out of YUL than Porter, Transat, and WestJet? I think the only Canadian carrier with less flights is Lynx, with 2 x 737. You might not even be ahead of First Air or PAL, but it's close.
No personal insults here, and nothing against Flair, but all you have to do is take a quick look at the YUL site and you'll see a massive difference between Flair and all the others. No in-depth analysis required here.

Please don't ask me to provide the numbers for this, it's absurd. I don't have the time nor the inclination to present the obvious. You made the statement, you back it up, or just admit it was a total gaffe and move on.

WestJet is definitely not number 2 in YUL. It might have been, but since they made the genius move to turn 10+ flights a day to YYZ into 1, they have definitely shrunk on the island.

My bet would be that Transat is the number 2 airline in YUL behind AC.

[DanWEC]

I agree that Transat is likely #2. I don't know where WestJet stands, but tomorrow they have 6 arrivals and Flair has 1. So Flair is even lower than them.
If I were to guess the ranks of only Canadian carriers out of YUL off the top of my head it would be AC, TS, QK, PD, WG, WJ, then it's a distant cohort, in no particular order, of Flair, Lynx, Inuit, PAL, and anyone else I'm forgetting.

[accountant]

Depending on seating variant, Qatar 777 hold anywhere from 335 to 412 pax...

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qatar ... mation.php

Flair has 2 departures today, July 1st out of YUL, according to the official YUL airport website

I'll let you do the math, but I think that fantasy kool-aid you're having is quite strong

OK, actually we had 5 departures with 838 passengers outbound (89% load factor), from YUL on July 1. How many did your airline fly?

How many of those were rebooked from cancelled flights within two weeks earlier?

Flair has a monopoly on ridiculous cancellation and rebooking.

[SPR]

Not one of you has done the math to show that your chosen airline has more capacity out of yul but your'e all happy to call out mine and few of you are right in there with the personal insults (classic keyboard warriors)...Likely I misquoted the stat, what was likely meant in the presentation I saw was that Flair is the second largest Canadian carrier out of YUL by number of passengers flown.

Oh, fascinating! Let's do the math then. From my post on July 5, there were 7 domestic AT flights. I don't know what aircraft they were operating, but the smallest it could have been was A321s, so let's be conservative and say that they were all 321s. Those aircraft are configured with 198 seats, so right away we know that each flight had 9 more seats available than Flair could have offered. 7x198=1386. co-joe cited the number 756 in a rather vague way, either referring to the average number of seats available or the average load factor; if it's the former, then they barely have half of Transat's domestic capacity, let alone international, but if it's the latter then Transat's load factor would have to be under 55% for Flair to have carried more pax. Will you clarify which you meant, co-joe? And if it's the latter, will you provide a source for Transat's LF being so low?

For today, Sunwing is offering two flights, and for tomorrow they're offering four, on the same aircraft with the same configuration as Flair. By comparison, Flair offers two today, and none tomorrow. However, all the Sunwing flights are international, and I assume we're dismissing those as irrelevant in order to focus on the specific stats that support co-joe's claim. Transat has 20 flights today, but only two of them are domestic. Even WestJet has four today and two tomorrow, so let's do the math on that: four is bigger than two, so WestJet has more today, and two is bigger than zero, so I'm pretty sure WestJet will have more tomorrow too...WestJet is operating two MAXes with 174 seats, an -800 with 174 seats, and a -700 with 132 seats for a total of 654; in contrast, Flair has 378 seats available. Now, I'm no mathemologist, but I'm pretty sure 654 is a bigger number than 378. I'm not even going to bother doing the math for tomorrow, because Flair has zero flights.

Shall we go on?

[cdnavater]

Not one of you has done the math to show that your chosen airline has more capacity out of yul but your'e all happy to call out mine and few of you are right in there with the personal insults (classic keyboard warriors)...Likely I misquoted the stat, what was likely meant in the presentation I saw was that Flair is the second largest Canadian carrier out of YUL by number of passengers flown.

Oh, fascinating! Let's do the math then. From my post on July 5, there were 7 domestic AT flights. I don't know what aircraft they were operating, but the smallest it could have been was A321s, so let's be conservative and say that they were all 321s. Those aircraft are configured with 198 seats, so right away we know that each flight had 9 more seats available than Flair could have offered. 7x198=1386. co-joe cited the number 756 in a rather vague way, either referring to the average number of seats available or the average load factor; if it's the former, then they barely have half of Transat's domestic capacity, let alone international, but if it's the latter then Transat's load factor would have to be under 55% for Flair to have carried more pax. Will you clarify which you meant, co-joe? And if it's the latter, will you provide a source for Transat's LF being so low?

For today, Sunwing is offering two flights, and for tomorrow they're offering four, on the same aircraft with the same configuration as Flair. By comparison, Flair offers two today, and none tomorrow. However, all the Sunwing flights are international, and I assume we're dismissing those as irrelevant in order to focus on the specific stats that support co-joe's claim. Transat has 20 flights today, but only two of them are domestic. Even WestJet has four today and two tomorrow, so let's do the math on that: four is bigger than two, so WestJet has more today, and two is bigger than zero, so I'm pretty sure WestJet will have more tomorrow too...WestJet is operating two MAXes with 174 seats, an -800 with 174 seats, and a -700 with 132 seats for a total of 654; in contrast, Flair has 378 seats available. Now, I'm no mathemologist, but I'm pretty sure 654 is a bigger number than 378. I'm not even going to bother doing the math for tomorrow, because Flair has zero flights.

Shall we go on?

He meant over the course of a year, you have to wait and tally up year end to see!

[flyinhigh]

...

For as much as we're told, Montreal is still the next target base. As for market, we are already operating out of there, although I agree very little.
...

Very little? We're the second largest carrier out of YUL by number of passengers flown. Honestly the numbers are really impressive. I would really love to see a YUL base, we have so many amazing people commuting to yyz, and yow and I'm really pulling for them. YHU will happen but spending 200 million on a terminal is not a ULCC move. Porter has the deep pockets to make a bold move like that, and I'm sure it will be a successful venture once complete, but Quebec + construction = cost overruns, and I'd be surprised if they get the doors open for less than half a Billion, once they do, Flair will be a tenant.

Sure about that? Have you not watched what happened at the island? And if it does get opened up, I can guarantee everyone will be going after that cushy monopoly that was struck at Waterloo.

[thenoflyzone]

I'd love to see that happen. The only issue with yhu is the inability to operate transborder /international flights. If that gets figured out, the hell with yul and its management. But we're not there yet..

We'll see later what that becomes.

There is nothing to figure out.

Aeroport de Montreal, in their lease agreement with Transport Canada - that runs until 2072 btw - has exclusivity on all international flights out of the Montreal market.

YHU will be restricted to domestic flights only until then, which is not what Quebecers are after anyway (just look at YUL's weak domestic passenger numbers. YYC moves significantly more domestic passengers), meaning YHU's passenger numbers will always remain small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I'd love to see that happen. The only issue with yhu is the inability to operate transborder /international flights. If that gets figured out, the hell with yul and its management.

..and when the blueprints for the new terminal get drawn…it’s guaranteed that there will be areas easily converted to customs halls and I’d wager..even us preclearance. YUL has a federally provided current monopoly on int’l flights till, I believe, 2025.
Let the games begin…

Nope. I can guarantee the opposite.

Like i said. 2072. The game is a long way from beginning. And when it does, we'll either all be dead, or very very old and in wheelchairs.

Besides, long term, YHU isn't the answer to YUL's problems. It's YMX. Always has been, always will be. And unfortunately, that airport is run by ADM as well. They will keep expanding YUL until every last inch of space is used up, before thinking about building a terminal building at YMX.

Way to double down on the delusional comments, in your world, what? Flair is number two to AC.
It’s probably accurate that YUL is number the two airport in Canada for passenger traffic, but I would put Flair at number 6-8(generous) but you are welcome to show your work!

YVR is busier than YUL, in terms of overall passenger numbers (due to YUL's weak domestic numbers). So YUL is #3.

However, as far as airports of entry go, YUL is second busiest, as it's International passenger numbers are well above YVR's.

[Stratopaused]

We're the second largest carrier out of YUL by number of passengers flown. Honestly the numbers are really impressive. I would really love to see a YUL base, we have so many amazing people commuting to yyz, and yow and I'm really pulling for them. YHU will happen but spending 200 million on a terminal is not a ULCC move. Porter has the deep pockets to make a bold move like that, and I'm sure it will be a successful venture once complete, but Quebec + construction = cost overruns, and I'd be surprised if they get the doors open for less than half a Billion, once they do, Flair will be a tenant.

This bizarre claim has aged like milk. Flair has now completely pulled out of both YUL and YOW, in spite of being "the second largest carrier" and having loads that are "really impressive". How are those bases working out?

[co-joe]

We're the second largest carrier out of YUL by number of passengers flown. Honestly the numbers are really impressive. I would really love to see a YUL base, we have so many amazing people commuting to yyz, and yow and I'm really pulling for them. YHU will happen but spending 200 million on a terminal is not a ULCC move. Porter has the deep pockets to make a bold move like that, and I'm sure it will be a successful venture once complete, but Quebec + construction = cost overruns, and I'd be surprised if they get the doors open for less than half a Billion, once they do, Flair will be a tenant.

This bizarre claim has aged like milk. Flair has now completely pulled out of both YUL and YOW, in spite of being "the second largest carrier" and having loads that are "really impressive". How are those bases working out?

No idea, but rehashing an argument from a year ago with today's numbers as your position is pointless. The previous CEO was really into expanding into YUL, and we were on track to meet my claim, but since then the yul port has shrunk considerably. We go there a couple times a week but I don't typically operate that sector any more so I have no idea what things are like. Personally I think YOW is just too small a market for a 189 seat jet except for seasonal markets, likely the E2 is more well suited and PD will become the big player there to the surprise of no one.

[Stratopaused]

Personally I think YOW is just too small a market for a 189 seat jet except for seasonal markets, likely the E2 is more well suited and PD will become the big player there to the surprise of no one.

Fascinating...

As of 2021, Ottawa had a city population of 1,017,449 and a metropolitan population of 1,488,307, making it the fourth-largest city and fourth-largest metropolitan area in Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa It has essentially the same population as YYC, and is bigger than 16 other Canadian destinations that Flair serves, and you still can't make it work? So if YOW is too small of a market for a 737, then how is WestJet operating them in there multiple times a day? How is AC sending numerous 737s, A320s, and even 787s? Maybe it's not the market that's at fault...

[CaptDukeNukem]

We're the second largest carrier out of YUL by number of passengers flown. Honestly the numbers are really impressive. I would really love to see a YUL base, we have so many amazing people commuting to yyz, and yow and I'm really pulling for them. YHU will happen but spending 200 million on a terminal is not a ULCC move. Porter has the deep pockets to make a bold move like that, and I'm sure it will be a successful venture once complete, but Quebec + construction = cost overruns, and I'd be surprised if they get the doors open for less than half a Billion, once they do, Flair will be a tenant.

This bizarre claim has aged like milk. Flair has now completely pulled out of both YUL and YOW, in spite of being "the second largest carrier" and having loads that are "really impressive". How are those bases working out?

No idea, but rehashing an argument from a year ago with today's numbers as your position is pointless. The previous CEO was really into expanding into YUL, and we were on track to meet my claim, but since then the yul port has shrunk considerably. We go there a couple times a week but I don't typically operate that sector any more so I have no idea what things are like. Personally I think YOW is just too small a market for a 189 seat jet except for seasonal markets, likely the E2 is more well suited and PD will become the big player there to the surprise of no one.

You’re talking about the CEO who forgot to pay taxes right?

[flyinhigh]

Personally I think YOW is just too small a market for a 189 seat jet except for seasonal markets, likely the E2 is more well suited and PD will become the big player there to the surprise of no one.

LOL, sry I do agree with the previous point about rehashing an old topic but this was just to good to leave alone.

To small for a 189 seat aircraft. Air France is operating a widebody here, Air Canada brings the 87 to YOW for the YVR run. Edmonton, same size market has KLM operating the 330.

Fact is Flair has become NOT what they were hoping. I believe they have their niche and will carry on with the 18-22 aircraft fleet but anything above that will sewer this company fast.

The old CEO, completely F^&Ked them with his no stop sales job and grand plans in a market he knew nothing about. The new CEO has kept the company out of the news, and they are finally trucking along doing their thing.