Okay, we beat the bear gun to death! Now, some scum-bag is breaking down the front door. They know you're home. You have a wife and kids in that home. Forget all the crap about the legality of it all for now. This would never happen to YOU...but...it IS happening! It's you, your family or him....what ya gonna do? And with what?
Me? Same as my bear gun...Winchester Defender 12 guage pump!
(this ought to get my peepee slapped!)
Give this some thought people. Why would you pick the gun you picked? There are some bad choices out there. Wrong choice, and you could end up being carried by six of your friends!
Best Gun to protect the Home Front?
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister
Best Gun to protect the Home Front?
Last edited by Doc on Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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marktheone
- Rank 7
- Posts: 719
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:07 am
- Location: An airplane.
Criminal Code of Canada:
Part I, Section 37(1) sub 34(1)
Defence of Person
Self-defence against unprovoked assault
34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.
Extent of justification
(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if
(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm.
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 34; 1992, c. 1, s. 60(F).
Defence of Property Sub 38 (1-2)
Defence of personal property
38. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of personal property, and every one lawfully assisting him, is justified
(a) in preventing a trespasser from taking it, or
(b) in taking it from a trespasser who has taken it, if he does not strike or cause bodily harm to the trespasser.
Assault by trespasser
(2) Where a person who is in peaceable possession of personal property lays hands on it, a trespasser who persists in attempting to keep it or take it from him or from any one lawfully assisting him shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 38.
SUB 40 (1)
Defence of dwelling
40. Every one who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house, and every one lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority, is justified in using as much force as is necessary to prevent any person from forcibly breaking into or forcibly entering the dwelling-house without lawful authority.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 40.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
I love that last one
I think a pump shotty would be enough to scare the life of god into most people, hell just chambering a shell may be enough…
But I have to admit iv always been a fan of FN Herstal.
the P-90 would be the old standby, http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_p90.htm
although im sure a lot of purists here would make the argument or two about it. But for this instance it may be ideal, designed to minimize over penetration, so there’s less drywall to fix, the shells make quick work of most armor, and a cyclic rate of 900rpm would bleed a 50 round clip dry in like what, 3.3 seconds? I believe subsonic rounds and mussel suppressors / flash suppressors /silencers are all available,
Then again an F2000
http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_f2000.htm
may be an interesting one too, this one uses a standard NATO round, BUT you can put a 12g shotgun attachment on it…
OR….. if you have LOTS of $$ to spend and are a good engineer/programmer (or I suppose you could always higher Lockheed)… You could buy a few M3Ms, or something similar if this is too big for you…
http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/mg_m3m.htm
then build some form of servo control of its platform, and attach that to an automated targeting systems, then install the whole unit in the ceiling, so once a trigger is tripped they all lower down and open fire with auto targeting… I would recommend going with one of the mission critical Linux distros, running in some form of cluster for targeting redundancy, Also go with solid state hardware, I bet something like the StrongARM chips from Motorola would have the MTBF to pull this off, I bet they would also have sufficient computational ability… I would put BOTH the chips, AND AUX power in something that is heavily shielded from EM… Im not too sure what would be a good reliable system to use for servos, but im sure that wouldn’t be very hard to figure out…
If you could interconnect targeting systems for each turret you may have a better system, but then again that may be exploited as a weakness…Perhaps you could have 3 clutters for each gun, One for onboard targeting, one for coordinating targeting with the other platforms, and a third to oversee the whole operation, and if necessary shutdown the targeting information from the other turrets incase one of them was compromised…
AFTER you had the weapons, I don’t imagine the rest of the hardware would be more than $5000 per platform, depending on what you are using for targeting data (IE vis light, IR, UV, Thermal, Laser trip lines, sonic system, maybe pressure pads?) The programming wouldn’t be that bad I don’t imagine, hell go to the local Uni and find a few masters comp engineers, another $5000 would get you some fairly reliable software that could be installed on as may systems as you want… There ARE commercially available targeting systems for surveillance cams IE they locate an individual and use the PTZ on a network of cams to keep track of that person, but I think they all run in a windows environment, so reliability would be a BIG question… I also think that these systems are rather expensive, and by their vary nature probably a lot easier to bypass…
NOW it is PROBABBLE that there is already a commercial/military system out there from some defense VARs, however I personally would be uncertain of where to turn to, as I don’t think these sorts of things are made public (for obvious reasons…)
Hope that helps!
-walk
Part I, Section 37(1) sub 34(1)
Defence of Person
Self-defence against unprovoked assault
34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.
Extent of justification
(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if
(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm.
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 34; 1992, c. 1, s. 60(F).
Defence of Property Sub 38 (1-2)
Defence of personal property
38. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of personal property, and every one lawfully assisting him, is justified
(a) in preventing a trespasser from taking it, or
(b) in taking it from a trespasser who has taken it, if he does not strike or cause bodily harm to the trespasser.
Assault by trespasser
(2) Where a person who is in peaceable possession of personal property lays hands on it, a trespasser who persists in attempting to keep it or take it from him or from any one lawfully assisting him shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 38.
SUB 40 (1)
Defence of dwelling
40. Every one who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house, and every one lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority, is justified in using as much force as is necessary to prevent any person from forcibly breaking into or forcibly entering the dwelling-house without lawful authority.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 40.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
I love that last one
I think a pump shotty would be enough to scare the life of god into most people, hell just chambering a shell may be enough…
But I have to admit iv always been a fan of FN Herstal.
the P-90 would be the old standby, http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_p90.htm
although im sure a lot of purists here would make the argument or two about it. But for this instance it may be ideal, designed to minimize over penetration, so there’s less drywall to fix, the shells make quick work of most armor, and a cyclic rate of 900rpm would bleed a 50 round clip dry in like what, 3.3 seconds? I believe subsonic rounds and mussel suppressors / flash suppressors /silencers are all available,
Then again an F2000
http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_f2000.htm
may be an interesting one too, this one uses a standard NATO round, BUT you can put a 12g shotgun attachment on it…
OR….. if you have LOTS of $$ to spend and are a good engineer/programmer (or I suppose you could always higher Lockheed)… You could buy a few M3Ms, or something similar if this is too big for you…
http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/mg_m3m.htm
then build some form of servo control of its platform, and attach that to an automated targeting systems, then install the whole unit in the ceiling, so once a trigger is tripped they all lower down and open fire with auto targeting… I would recommend going with one of the mission critical Linux distros, running in some form of cluster for targeting redundancy, Also go with solid state hardware, I bet something like the StrongARM chips from Motorola would have the MTBF to pull this off, I bet they would also have sufficient computational ability… I would put BOTH the chips, AND AUX power in something that is heavily shielded from EM… Im not too sure what would be a good reliable system to use for servos, but im sure that wouldn’t be very hard to figure out…
If you could interconnect targeting systems for each turret you may have a better system, but then again that may be exploited as a weakness…Perhaps you could have 3 clutters for each gun, One for onboard targeting, one for coordinating targeting with the other platforms, and a third to oversee the whole operation, and if necessary shutdown the targeting information from the other turrets incase one of them was compromised…
AFTER you had the weapons, I don’t imagine the rest of the hardware would be more than $5000 per platform, depending on what you are using for targeting data (IE vis light, IR, UV, Thermal, Laser trip lines, sonic system, maybe pressure pads?) The programming wouldn’t be that bad I don’t imagine, hell go to the local Uni and find a few masters comp engineers, another $5000 would get you some fairly reliable software that could be installed on as may systems as you want… There ARE commercially available targeting systems for surveillance cams IE they locate an individual and use the PTZ on a network of cams to keep track of that person, but I think they all run in a windows environment, so reliability would be a BIG question… I also think that these systems are rather expensive, and by their vary nature probably a lot easier to bypass…
NOW it is PROBABBLE that there is already a commercial/military system out there from some defense VARs, however I personally would be uncertain of where to turn to, as I don’t think these sorts of things are made public (for obvious reasons…)
Hope that helps!
-walk
I have an old .38 tapered barrel Smith Model 10 upstairs and a .32 ACP Ruby downstairs.
"FLY THE AIRPLANE"!
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
Haz....the old Model 10 is a perfect idiot proof handgun. They can be left on the bottom a river for years and, after a clean-up, they'll still work. It is a 4 incher however, so you will never be allowed to sell it. If you do own it legally, you are allowed to continue to do so. It's legal.
Look this up, I dont think the .32 ACP is legal anymore. If you buy ammo for it, you could get into a spot of bother. I'd be inclined to have the local OPP's dispose of it....or if it is "under the radar".....toss it into a forge!
Look this up, I dont think the .32 ACP is legal anymore. If you buy ammo for it, you could get into a spot of bother. I'd be inclined to have the local OPP's dispose of it....or if it is "under the radar".....toss it into a forge!
Really only one answer Armalite AR-180b
Unrestricted in Canada buy one today
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/
Unrestricted in Canada buy one today
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/
Doc, I'm with you on this one.
12 gauge (either semi-auto or pump), with a relatively short barrel. Load 00 buckshot, full choke. If somebody's coming through the door of my place, that's what I want, for a couple of reasons.
#1 If he manages to get within grappling range of me, it's far less likely that he can get it turned around to fire on me. (I'm a pretty big guy)
#2 Long gun skills aren't are perishable as pistol skills. To reliably hit what you're aiming at with a pistol, you have to develop and maintain your skills.
#3 If I'm out of rounds, a shotgun is still a fairly effective bludgeoning instrument. (see my big guy comment from point #1)
#4 The first time that it goes off, it'll scare the beejezus out of the poor sap, even if I don't hit him. Odds are that after a chunk of drywall or door the size of a pumpkin gets blasted into dust, he'll turn tail.
#5 When you're firing buckshot, you're far less likely to miss.
#6 Low velocity and small projectile size means very few problems with over-penetration.
#7 All of the above qualities can be had at an inexpensive price at your local Ukranian Tire store.
#8 Load it with slugs, and it makes a great bear gun!
12 gauge (either semi-auto or pump), with a relatively short barrel. Load 00 buckshot, full choke. If somebody's coming through the door of my place, that's what I want, for a couple of reasons.
#1 If he manages to get within grappling range of me, it's far less likely that he can get it turned around to fire on me. (I'm a pretty big guy)
#2 Long gun skills aren't are perishable as pistol skills. To reliably hit what you're aiming at with a pistol, you have to develop and maintain your skills.
#3 If I'm out of rounds, a shotgun is still a fairly effective bludgeoning instrument. (see my big guy comment from point #1)
#4 The first time that it goes off, it'll scare the beejezus out of the poor sap, even if I don't hit him. Odds are that after a chunk of drywall or door the size of a pumpkin gets blasted into dust, he'll turn tail.
#5 When you're firing buckshot, you're far less likely to miss.
#6 Low velocity and small projectile size means very few problems with over-penetration.
#7 All of the above qualities can be had at an inexpensive price at your local Ukranian Tire store.
#8 Load it with slugs, and it makes a great bear gun!
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
Doc. Both guns are legally registered (under 104mm though) and grandfathered so when I go, they go. Ammunition for the .32 isn't a problem as I used to roll my own and have enough in storage to melt the barrel. I have enough .38spec FWC paper punchers to win me another NRA bullseye tropy if I ever get back into it.
"FLY THE AIRPLANE"!
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
Jeff Cooper once said, "when you know there is going to be a fight, bring a shotgun".
The pistol is strictly a defensive weapon.
The pistol is strictly a defensive weapon.
"FLY THE AIRPLANE"!
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
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Northern Skies
- Rank 8
- Posts: 769
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 2:00 pm
If I heard someone breaking in...... Something belt-fed would get the message across. Perhaps a C9. Back it up with an MP5. And a pet polar bear.
But back to reality, a 12ga. pump can't be beat. (I'm looking to buy a Mossberg 590 9-shot and put a top-folding stock on it... bear gun)
But back to reality, a 12ga. pump can't be beat. (I'm looking to buy a Mossberg 590 9-shot and put a top-folding stock on it... bear gun)
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just clearing the trees
- Rank 4
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:42 pm
Hi Folks, Tpr Dixon, 41CBG Here... Enter without the Proper Challenge and password and youll notice i own no home but that Ive been in this stage 6 fighting trench for 3 weeks. My Roomate Gnr Ubbing would be happy to come greet you, but he's on rear guard with the C9, but me and the 6 can answer your questions.
The Above Post Was made by a Belligerant, Obnoxious, Asshole Albertan.
Consider yourself Forewarned.
"Shape Up, or get the F*** Off My Ship"
Consider yourself Forewarned.
"Shape Up, or get the F*** Off My Ship"
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b ... 704&page=1
Just remember not to take lessons from these guys. No wonder they use machetes, they can't kill anything with guns.
Just remember not to take lessons from these guys. No wonder they use machetes, they can't kill anything with guns.
gun to protect
short bus does that mean all the .50 ammo (and yes it is live) that i have here at home should be deposited somewhere safe ie the local river or military base? just so you all know and before you start ranting it was all purchased legally and from a reputable dealer before all this FAC bs came into being when i purchased it it was belted and ready to be used part of the terms of the sale set by me was the rounds had to be un linked as i didnt really want a belt of .50 in my home although it would hav looked neat beside the .30 cal(.303) belt i have the neat thing with that belt is all the rounds are stamped with RAF 1943 as the owner and yr of mfg
ULTOR UN UMBRIS
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Scuba_Steve
- Rank 7
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:10 pm
Re: gun to protect
.50 BMG ammunition is not illegal. Incendiary or explosive .50 BMG rounds are, but that's due to the type of round, not the calibre. A bolt action .50 rifle is an unrestricted weapon in Canada.bigred wrote:short bus does that mean all the .50 ammo (and yes it is live) that i have here at home should be deposited somewhere safe ie the local river or military base? just so you all know and before you start ranting it was all purchased legally and from a reputable dealer before all this FAC bs came into being when i purchased it it was belted and ready to be used part of the terms of the sale set by me was the rounds had to be un linked as i didnt really want a belt of .50 in my home although it would hav looked neat beside the .30 cal(.303) belt i have the neat thing with that belt is all the rounds are stamped with RAF 1943 as the owner and yr of mfg
http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor98-462/part83018.html
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ScudRunner
- Rank 11
- Posts: 3239
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:58 am
Grimey, You beat me too it.
I hope to sport a McMillan .50 Cal.
Yes thats right the same rifle that a good Canadian kid iced a bad guy 2.4 kilometres away
during combat in Afghanistan. This was the Longest confirmed sniper kill in History!!!!! 
dude recieved a bunch of medals from the US as well. The Jalalabad Joe had a group of US Army Rangers pinned down when he dialed long distance.
Um Can you lend me $5000.00 for it
I just spent it on a PPC
I hope to sport a McMillan .50 Cal.
Yes thats right the same rifle that a good Canadian kid iced a bad guy 2.4 kilometres away
during combat in Afghanistan. This was the Longest confirmed sniper kill in History!!!!! dude recieved a bunch of medals from the US as well. The Jalalabad Joe had a group of US Army Rangers pinned down when he dialed long distance. Um Can you lend me $5000.00 for it
I just spent it on a PPC 
Really though, for home defense, assuming we're talking about people who have actually broken in, not some twit shooting at your house from outside, like others have said, nothing is going to beat a short barrelled pump shotgun. In a darkened room, the sound of a round being chambered will scare off anyone with any sense, and the round will take care of anyone else. And unlike a centerfire rifle, the shot probably won't go through a wall and kill your wife, kids or neighbours. Just get a short barrelled version, so that it's easier to maneuver in a confined area. This is the only real advantage a handgun has for most people. Rifles are great out in the open, not so much indoors in narrow hallways and doorways, and where you do have to worry about where the round is going after it's done with your unwanted guest. And since most carbines are restricted weapons due to the barrel length, getting a short one is a problem anyway.
I want to know what the gang members are wearing in some of your cities that people think they need a large calibre rifle to take them down from 10 feet away. And whoever suggested the Desert Eagle .50 would probably be far better off with a smaller calibre handgun than that beast. Unless you've been using a jackhammer for 20 years, and have wrists the size of my fist. Want to pick a good handgun? Go watch IPSC in the states, and ask the guys what they'd EDC if they could open carry. But unless you're as good as them, get a shotgun.
