Encore Pilots Lose Reserved Seniority

[dontcallmeshirley]

It might not be set in stone yet, but I am betting some sad dollars on the announcement by ALPA in a few days.

[Babar350]

Even those that got in when the "One List" was still a thing?

[Ben_Pilot]

Deleted. I’ll let the news, soon to be released, show exactly how Encore pilots are valued. No need bantering here.

[dhc#]

So that's why almost half of the Q400 fleet is parked ?

[Bede]

There are just under 160 pilots who were “Grandfathered” into the list prior to December 2022. Now apparently all those pilots are thrown to the side, behind all SunWing pilots and mainline pilots?

Where in the world are you coming up with this?

[5degrees]

My first take on reading it. Any pilot that was on the PTA prior to its cancellation holds their DOH. Anyone after, its to the bottom of the list like it has been since it was cancelled.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Can someone post or quote the letter

[Canadaflyer46]

Looks like anyone still at Encore loses their spot on the list (page 13)

WestJet_Sunwing_IPSL_October_30_2024_AWARD.pdf

(431.46 KiB) Downloaded 292 times

[Canadaflyer46]

Looks like anyone still at Encore loses their spot on the list (page 13)? Unless I read that wrong.

WestJet_Sunwing_IPSL_October_30_2024_AWARD.pdf

[JBI]

Looks like anyone still at Encore loses their spot on the list (page 13)? Unless I read that wrong.

WestJet_Sunwing_IPSL_October_30_2024_AWARD.pdf

Encore Pilots "grandfathered" by the PTA (hired before Dec 5, 2022) retain their reserved seniority rights. They're not used for the ratio calculation, but when they flow they will be slotted in between the WestJet Pilots who are above/below them on the current combined seniority lists.

There were no additional rights granted to Sunwing pilots per the PTA (i.e., they cannot bump down to Encore in the event of lay-offs or another COVID).

Encore pilots hired after December 5, 2022 do not gain any reserved seniority rights.

[JBI]

It might not be set in stone yet, but I am betting some sad dollars on the announcement by ALPA in a few days.

So, how many "sad" dollars did you wager?

[dontcallmeshirley]

It might not be set in stone yet, but I am betting some sad dollars on the announcement by ALPA in a few days.

So, how many "sad" dollars did you wager?

This is the reason why I don't go to casinos.

[Me262]

Looks like anyone still at Encore loses their spot on the list (page 13)? Unless I read that wrong.

WestJet_Sunwing_IPSL_October_30_2024_AWARD.pdf

Encore pilots hired after December 5, 2022 do not gain any reserved seniority rights.

Guaranteed AC future hires

[CaptDukeNukem]

Encore pilots hired after December 5, 2022 do not gain any reserved seniority rights.

Guaranteed AC future hires

Don’t say that too loudly. AC is listening. And ALPA is not

[JBI]

Encore pilots hired after December 5, 2022 do not gain any reserved seniority rights.

Guaranteed AC future hires

Don’t say that too loudly. AC is listening. And ALPA is not

ALPA has told the Company thousands of times (and that's not hyperbole) that if they don't do more, Encore pilots will go to AC. In fact I went through my log book a year or so ago and something like 65% of the pilots I flew with at Encore are now at AC (and ALL of them had the reserved seniority). Fact is, the Company doesn't care.

[rigpiggy]

Had a discussion with my cousin, knows some of the top brass. Encore is to be the new Jazz, sold off and CPA'd. Because Encore without pilots WEN is worth nothing, hence company is blocking movement while they try to spin it off

[Stratopaused]

Encore with pilots isn't worth anything. They have 35 turboprops that no one else would buy, and no other assets. They don't have their own maintenance, dispatch, hangars, or sims. The sole value in the company after an IPO would be in the revenue provided by a CPA with WestJet, and I don't think anyone would be willing to dump a bunch of money into the company to set it up as a fully independent entity and then expect to get a return on their investment with a five-year contract that might not be renewed. WestJet would have an easier time just selling the Qs for parts and rolling Encore up than trying to find someone willing to buy the operation.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Encore with pilots isn't worth anything. They have 35 turboprops that no one else would buy, and no other assets. They don't have their own maintenance, dispatch, hangars, or sims. The sole value in the company after an IPO would be in the revenue provided by a CPA with WestJet, and I don't think anyone would be willing to dump a bunch of money into the company to set it up as a fully independent entity and then expect to get a return on their investment with a five-year contract that might not be renewed. WestJet would have an easier time just selling the Qs for parts and rolling Encore up than trying to find someone willing to buy the operation.

Encore has already sold 12 Qs and rumour has it that more are up for sale.

[cjp]

Encore with pilots isn't worth anything.They have 35 turboprops that no one else would buy, and no other assets. They don't have their own maintenance, dispatch, hangars, or sims. The sole value in the company after an IPO would be in the revenue provided by a CPA with WestJet, and I don't think anyone would be willing to dump a bunch of money into the company to set it up as a fully independent entity and then expect to get a return on their investment with a five-year contract that might not be renewed. WestJet would have an easier time just selling the Qs for parts and rolling Encore up than trying to find someone willing to buy the operation.

I wouldn't be so sure. Dashes, while not tremendously popular in the U.S, are popular everywhere else (mostly third world), like Canada , where there is at least one other major player expanding rapidly who has remained eerily silent on Western invasion plans.

If Encore goes tits up due to attrition, I wouldn't be surprised if someone steps in to acquire those tails and aggressively snap up those routes.

[Bede]

Looks like anyone still at Encore loses their spot on the list (page 13)

WestJet_Sunwing_IPSL_October_30_2024_AWARD.pdf

46. I reach this conclusion because the future placement of Encore pilots onto the seniority list will be dictated by their position relative to those WestJet pilots hired on or before December 5, 2022, on the combined seniority list created for that purpose—a different list than the IPSL arising from this award.

[Canadaflyer46]

Looks like anyone still at Encore loses their spot on the list (page 13)

WestJet_Sunwing_IPSL_October_30_2024_AWARD.pdf

46. I reach this conclusion because the future placement of Encore pilots onto the seniority list will be dictated by their position relative to those WestJet pilots hired on or before December 5, 2022, on the combined seniority list created for that purpose—a different list than the IPSL arising from this award.

Thanks Bede, I clearly misinterpreted that. Shame for them that flow looks to be a distant memory.

[hithere]

the comments here are very confusing and seem to contradict each other with every post... can someone confirm what this merger award did to the encore pilots? ie those hired before Dec 5, 2022 and those hired after?

[JBI]

the comments here are very confusing and seem to contradict each other with every post... can someone confirm what this merger award did to the encore pilots? ie those hired before Dec 5, 2022 and those hired after?

It's business as usual for both.

For those hired before Dec 5, 2022, they still retain their reserved seniority when they flow. They will be slotted in where they were previously supposed to be with respect to the WestJet Pilots that are currently on the WJ/Encore Combined seniority list. There may be a former SWG pilot beside them or not. But basically, if someone was hired at Encore Aug 1, 2018, they will go on the new list behind a WJ pilot hired July 2018 and above a WJ pilot hired later in Aug 2018.

For those hired after Dec 5, 2022, they do not carry over any reserved seniority. So although the Company may still give them the opportunity to flow to WJ without another interview, when they start at WJ, they will be at the bottom of the seniority list. If an Encore pilot started at Encore in in February 2023 and flowed in March 2028, their start date at WJ would be March 2028, not Feb 2023.

For the most part, both of these situations is as they already are.

[hithere]

Ok thanks for the explanation

[dontcallmeshirley]

For those hired before Dec 5, 2022, they still retain their reserved seniority when they flow. They will be slotted in where they were previously supposed to be with respect to the WestJet Pilots that are currently on the WJ/Encore Combined seniority list. There may be a former SWG pilot beside them or not. But basically, if someone was hired at Encore Aug 1, 2018, they will go on the new list behind a WJ pilot hired July 2018 and above a WJ pilot hired later in Aug 2018.

Yeah, there's not going to be major grievances made regarding that. If an Encore pilot is slotted between slot 500 and 502, but now there's four Sunwing pilots there, where does the Encore pilot go?