Should I go to Flair

[Piperclub]

Hello,
I have offers from Porter Q and Cargojet.
I have an interview coming up with Flair.
Should I consider going to Flair, if I get through?

[Blackdog0301]

If you want to be constantly worried about job security and wondering if you'll get paid on payday, then go to Flair. If you like redeye flying, go to Cargojet. Porter is definitely the best choice IMO.

[mmm...bacon]

Take the first job that is offered. The other two might not get back to you. Reassess if they do.

[canadianfly]

Hey piperclub, trust ne when i tell you that every year you spend in redeye environment you'll get older by 2 years, within a couple of years you'll hate the job.

If i were you i would go to Porter..Good luck mate.

[NickGurr]

Why would you do something that retarded?

[PittBoss]

Just come to WJ

[canadianfly]

No need to look at the balance sheet to see that Flair might not have a bright future in Canada, they fly mostly horizontaly on latitudes (East, West), the money maker is flying paralel to meridians (North to South).

[CaptDukeNukem]

Hello,
I have offers from Porter Q and Cargojet.
I have an interview coming up with Flair.
Should I consider going to Flair, if I get through?

I think the issue you are currently facing sounds like you are trying to plan for the future.

There’s only ONE number that matters. Your employee number, or seniority.

Full disclosure , I fly for Porter. But getting into the company on a Q in my honest opinion will be better than flying at night at Cargojet, and the turbulence of getting laid off with a days notice at flair.

As mentioned above on previous posts , I think the choice is clear here. But no one can tell you what you need or want

[Piperclub]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Helps to know the current market.
One thing I have noticed is, any airline with both turbo/jet operations these days is only hiring for turboprops. Jazz, Porter and WJ all have both and no hiring on the jets.

[Tbayer2021]

Hey piperclub, trust ne when i tell you that every year you spend in redeye environment you'll get older by 2 years, within a couple of years you'll hate the job.

If i were you i would go to Porter..Good luck mate.

I'll second the redeye flying comment. That type of flying is brutal on the body. I did it for a few years and couldn't believe how chronically fatigued I was until months after I left and started feeling like I was supposed to.

[cdnavater]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Helps to know the current market.
One thing I have noticed is, any airline with both turbo/jet operations these days is only hiring for turboprops. Jazz, Porter and WJ all have both and no hiring on the jets.

That is not true about Jazz, last course of 8 had 2 RJ, 2 E175 and 4 Q, I also have been constantly training new hires on the RJ, every single month for over two years and the 6 years before the Covid shutdown.
Right now things are slow on the RJ but still new hires coming through, however the transition to all CRJ 900 training required the 200 SIM be replaced, that will take two months and not enough hours in the day to do recurrent and new hire training with one SIM, so for the next two months I would say no RJ new hires.
Aa for Porter, buyer beware, if hired on the Q, it’s a separate company and it doesn’t take a genius to see how that will go down the road, just look at Encore and WJ, if you’re lucky enough to move over before the lists become separate, great but if not, there will be regrets about wasting all that time.
Good luck with your choice, personally, I would take Cargojet, it’s a heavy type rating and experience!

[TurkeyFarmYQX]

If you're based out west where the company is overstaffed, you'll spend all your time in YYZ or YKF hotels doing redeye turns out west.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Helps to know the current market.
One thing I have noticed is, any airline with both turbo/jet operations these days is only hiring for turboprops. Jazz, Porter and WJ all have both and no hiring on the jets.

That is not true about Jazz, last course of 8 had 2 RJ, 2 E175 and 4 Q, I also have been constantly training new hires on the RJ, every single month for over two years and the 6 years before the Covid shutdown.
Right now things are slow on the RJ but still new hires coming through, however the transition to all CRJ 900 training required the 200 SIM be replaced, that will take two months and not enough hours in the day to do recurrent and new hire training with one SIM, so for the next two months I would say no RJ new hires.
Aa for Porter, buyer beware, if hired on the Q, it’s a separate company and it doesn’t take a genius to see how that will go down the road, just look at Encore and WJ, if you’re lucky enough to move over before the lists become separate, great but if not, there will be regrets about wasting all that time.
Good luck with your choice, personally, I would take Cargojet, it’s a heavy type rating and experience!

How does a heavy type rating help in a career? Air Canada will hire anyone regardless of type ratings

Also CJ
Flies 57s and 67s,

Which are basically obsolete in Canada and frankly elsewhere in the world.

Heavy time doesn’t mean SH!t anymore.

Also, sure… yea Porter and Porter dash and different companies. But it is flowing, just like jazz and AC. Until you guys sold your soul for nothing but 17 years of misery and then sold out the young AGAIN, for 30% flow, which PAL is doing all your East flying for you.

Jazz is the worst, do not ever go there.

Flying a PC-12 in northern Quebec is way better if you have nothing else.

That’s my advice.

[cdnavater]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Helps to know the current market.
One thing I have noticed is, any airline with both turbo/jet operations these days is only hiring for turboprops. Jazz, Porter and WJ all have both and no hiring on the jets.

That is not true about Jazz, last course of 8 had 2 RJ, 2 E175 and 4 Q, I also have been constantly training new hires on the RJ, every single month for over two years and the 6 years before the Covid shutdown.
Right now things are slow on the RJ but still new hires coming through, however the transition to all CRJ 900 training required the 200 SIM be replaced, that will take two months and not enough hours in the day to do recurrent and new hire training with one SIM, so for the next two months I would say no RJ new hires.
Aa for Porter, buyer beware, if hired on the Q, it’s a separate company and it doesn’t take a genius to see how that will go down the road, just look at Encore and WJ, if you’re lucky enough to move over before the lists become separate, great but if not, there will be regrets about wasting all that time.
Good luck with your choice, personally, I would take Cargojet, it’s a heavy type rating and experience!

How does a heavy type rating help in a career? Air Canada will hire anyone regardless of type ratings

Also CJ
Flies 57s and 67s,

Which are basically obsolete in Canada and frankly elsewhere in the world.

Heavy time doesn’t mean SH!t anymore.

Also, sure… yea Porter and Porter dash and different companies. But it is flowing, just like jazz and AC. Until you guys sold your soul for nothing but 17 years of misery and then sold out the young AGAIN, for 30% flow, which PAL is doing all your East flying for you.

Jazz is the worst, do not ever go there.

Flying a PC-12 in northern Quebec is way better if you have nothing else.

That’s my advice.

Predictable to say the least, heavy time means plenty to plenty of operations worldwide, if someone wants that as an option but it also means more to AC than Porter Q time, when AC is looking at candidates. They will absolutely weigh(pun not intended) heavy time greater than not.
As for the Porter flow, it’s working NOW, so was Encore and so did the Jazz PML 1.0 and so on, is there a Duke guarantee this will never change, well we know what that’s worth!
Duke, due respect, you’ve been at this longer than I thought, I actually thought you were some wet behind the ear entitled brat but, just goes to show, not everything is as it appears, that being said, you know full well that a union drive and demographics will change the rules of engagement with Porter Q and Porter Jet! I still believe this is by design, straight out of the CEO playbook, create division and conquer the war!
I guarantee, your flow will change and anyone hired on the Q in the last couple years and forward are rolling the dice on a future number on the Jet!
Once the union drive is successful and it will be, it’s all about the numbers and someday that will tip, you will have separate lists and a vote on reserved seniority numbers, that will likely not pass as there are more new employees on the Jet that stand to gain, argue all you want but we will revisit this is the future!

[CaptDukeNukem]

That is not true about Jazz, last course of 8 had 2 RJ, 2 E175 and 4 Q, I also have been constantly training new hires on the RJ, every single month for over two years and the 6 years before the Covid shutdown.
Right now things are slow on the RJ but still new hires coming through, however the transition to all CRJ 900 training required the 200 SIM be replaced, that will take two months and not enough hours in the day to do recurrent and new hire training with one SIM, so for the next two months I would say no RJ new hires.
Aa for Porter, buyer beware, if hired on the Q, it’s a separate company and it doesn’t take a genius to see how that will go down the road, just look at Encore and WJ, if you’re lucky enough to move over before the lists become separate, great but if not, there will be regrets about wasting all that time.
Good luck with your choice, personally, I would take Cargojet, it’s a heavy type rating and experience!

How does a heavy type rating help in a career? Air Canada will hire anyone regardless of type ratings

Also CJ
Flies 57s and 67s,

Which are basically obsolete in Canada and frankly elsewhere in the world.

Heavy time doesn’t mean SH!t anymore.

Also, sure… yea Porter and Porter dash and different companies. But it is flowing, just like jazz and AC. Until you guys sold your soul for nothing but 17 years of misery and then sold out the young AGAIN, for 30% flow, which PAL is doing all your East flying for you.

Jazz is the worst, do not ever go there.

Flying a PC-12 in northern Quebec is way better if you have nothing else.

That’s my advice.

Predictable to say the least, heavy time means plenty to plenty of operations worldwide, if someone wants that as an option but it also means more to AC than Porter Q time, when AC is looking at candidates. They will absolutely weigh(pun not intended) heavy time greater than not.
As for the Porter flow, it’s working NOW, so was Encore and so did the Jazz PML 1.0 and so on, is there a Duke guarantee this will never change, well we know what that’s worth!
Duke, due respect, you’ve been at this longer than I thought, I actually thought you were some wet behind the ear entitled brat but, just goes to show, not everything is as it appears, that being said, you know full well that a union drive and demographics will change the rules of engagement with Porter Q and Porter Jet! I still believe this is by design, straight out of the CEO playbook, create division and conquer the war!
I guarantee, your flow will change and anyone hired on the Q in the last couple years and forward are rolling the dice on a future number on the Jet!
Once the union drive is successful and it will be, it’s all about the numbers and someday that will tip, you will have separate lists and a vote on reserved seniority numbers, that will likely not pass as there are more new employees on the Jet that stand to gain, argue all you want but we will revisit this is the future!

Thanks Cdnavater!

I highly respect and recognize that you also know what’s happening,

I do enjoy the gambit and banter on avcanada much more than I enjoy going to terminal 1 to commute.

Who is going worldwide? The people in Canada are mostly staying in Canada. Look at Cathay Pacific pilots. We have dozens of them that spend near to 2 decades there.

They are now at porter, and zero intention of going back to Hong Kong.
Heavy time means nothing, what people are looking for is jet PIC over 44T.

I certainly know that the E1 didn’t classify in that playbook, and I’m doubtful that the RJ fits in that category also.

[Piperclub]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Helps to know the current market.
One thing I have noticed is, any airline with both turbo/jet operations these days is only hiring for turboprops. Jazz, Porter and WJ all have both and no hiring on the jets.

That is not true about Jazz, last course of 8 had 2 RJ, 2 E175 and 4 Q, I also have been constantly training new hires on the RJ, every single month for over two years and the 6 years before the Covid shutdown.
Right now things are slow on the RJ but still new hires coming through, however the transition to all CRJ 900 training required the 200 SIM be replaced, that will take two months and not enough hours in the day to do recurrent and new hire training with one SIM, so for the next two months I would say no RJ new hires.
Aa for Porter, buyer beware, if hired on the Q, it’s a separate company and it doesn’t take a genius to see how that will go down the road, just look at Encore and WJ, if you’re lucky enough to move over before the lists become separate, great but if not, there will be regrets about wasting all that time.
Good luck with your choice, personally, I would take Cargojet, it’s a heavy type rating and experience!

Sorry I meant no DEC on jets, only DEC on turboprops. Jazz is taking DEC only on q400, no hiring for jet. Same with Porter and WJ (encore), DEC only on props.
Does that mean jet captains aren’t flowing?
Might change soon though.

[cdnavater]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Helps to know the current market.
One thing I have noticed is, any airline with both turbo/jet operations these days is only hiring for turboprops. Jazz, Porter and WJ all have both and no hiring on the jets.

That is not true about Jazz, last course of 8 had 2 RJ, 2 E175 and 4 Q, I also have been constantly training new hires on the RJ, every single month for over two years and the 6 years before the Covid shutdown.
Right now things are slow on the RJ but still new hires coming through, however the transition to all CRJ 900 training required the 200 SIM be replaced, that will take two months and not enough hours in the day to do recurrent and new hire training with one SIM, so for the next two months I would say no RJ new hires.
Aa for Porter, buyer beware, if hired on the Q, it’s a separate company and it doesn’t take a genius to see how that will go down the road, just look at Encore and WJ, if you’re lucky enough to move over before the lists become separate, great but if not, there will be regrets about wasting all that time.
Good luck with your choice, personally, I would take Cargojet, it’s a heavy type rating and experience!

Sorry I meant no DEC on jets, only DEC on turboprops. Jazz is taking DEC only on q400, no hiring for jet. Same with Porter and WJ (encore), DEC only on props.
Does that mean jet captains aren’t flowing?
Might change soon though.

The reality is, the DEC didn’t work out on the jets, a higher success on the Q, that said, if you are qualified and are awarded the jet, it’s beneficial to do the initial training in the right seat and bid left seat as soon as you finish line-Indoc, guaranteed you will be awarded it before you bid for flying the next month.
I’ve seen a few this last week who just finished initial training and are now back for the upgrade, which is much easier than doing it as an initial, you already know the airplane so now it’s just the job part.

[Twotter20]

Just do it the old fashioned way and do a pro/con list.

Flair: More money, base choices possibly available (yyz, ykf, yvr, yeg, yyc), Fly a 737, home most nights, fly less days.

Porter: Better job security. Bases you might prefer (ytz, yow,yqt)

I worked for Porter on the Q before Flair. Both great companies in their own very different ways but i dont regret my move at all. Each to their own, best of luck.

[Speedbrakes]

Hey piperclub, trust ne when i tell you that every year you spend in redeye environment you'll get older by 2 years, within a couple of years you'll hate the job.

If i were you i would go to Porter..Good luck mate.

Yep. Happened to me. I did 3.5 years of overnight cargo. Initially I quite enjoyed it but after about 2 years I noticed I was no longer happy going to work. The company was great, people were great, days off were great but I just couldn't stand going to work anymore.

[330heavy]

Porter

[Piperclub]

Thanks everyone!

[cdnavater]

Thanks everyone!

So, you had two offers on the table, which did you take?

[Piperclub]

Still haven't joined either