FSI vs CAE

[2022]

Hi all, I am just looking for the pros and cons between SIM training with FSI vs CAE.

Thanks in Advance!

[Wammer]

If you have the choice I would always go FSI over CAE. Our aircraft is supported by both. The guys that got inital training at CAE were extremely unimpressed. We had a solid experience at FSI and have had good recurrent experiences since. Heard similar stories on other programs. However there are some fairly strong CAE programs. Challenger and Global guys have great things to say about CAE Montreal. I think theres a few others that I’ve heard are good over the years that don’t come to mind.

[2022]

Thanks for the critique. I, too, am an FSI fan. I took a course with CAE in YYZ many years back, and I was not too impressed...but I have no choice this year.

[Orion's Fannypack]

We're having significantly better service with FSI plus the little extras like offering a paper option for all the manuals is certainly appreciated. They treat our humble little department like we're a big deal to them and I really notice the difference. Zero complaints with them!

[GTFA]

Interesting discussion. But, is it a fair comparison when so many variable elements effect the experience? What criteria are you using to compare? Is it fair to rely on an experience from "many years back" when there is so much turnover in the industry not to mention technical advancements in training?
How about this: would you rather be with a crappy trainer at FSI or a good trainer at CAE. And vise versa, would you rather have a crappy CAE trainer or a good FSI person?

Is it possible to identify to either Org., who you would like to provide your training for each element or aircraft type etc.?

So much depends on the trainee(s) and their being prepared mentally and practically to the training required. Even the most skilled trainer can get dragged down by a weak crew having a bad day.

I am very interested to learn how one compares FSI against CAE or any other training providers.

GTFA

[2022]

You raise excellent points and I agree that it can be very subjective in one's experience. A person could have a great experience at one location with the same provider and the next year end up at a different location with the same institution, but end up having a disappointing experience.

[CL-Skadoo!]

Customer service has been phenomenal with FSI, only passable with CAE. We’re also finding quality instructors seem to stick around more at FSI whereas CAE has let some great people leave by not looking after them properly.

[cjp]

From an airline standpoint, CAE has superior sims. Bizav, FSI has the better customer experience, which is what you notice when you're at the same facility 20-30 days in a row. If I were doing a bizav type on a Challenger or Global, I would pick CAE Montreal out of pure convenience, but otherwise FSI all the way for any other type - except Dassault in TEB. I'd go to Dallas or Savannah.

[digits_]

Customer service has been phenomenal with FSI

That's true. But it's a fine line between phenomenal customer service and crappy training level though. I found the level of training at FSI significantly lower than any in house training I've ever done. Don't worry, you'll pass your tests and your flight tests, but the standards are very low. I remember quotes such as "we usually don't touch upon that until renewal" and "I don't know, just don't press that button".

It's possible the same is true at CAE. I don't know, I've never attended any training there.

[cjp]

Customer service has been phenomenal with FSI

That's true. But it's a fine line between phenomenal customer service and crappy training level though. I found the level of training at FSI significantly lower than any in house training I've ever done. Don't worry, you'll pass your tests and your flight tests, but the standards are very low. I remember quotes such as "we usually don't touch upon that until renewal" and "I don't know, just don't press that button".

It's possible the same is true at CAE. I don't know, I've never attended any training there.

Which facility did you experience this?! This is way below standard, way below.

[Adjfrancis]

It depends on the aircraft type and a bit of "luck of the draw" on instructors at said training facility - they all have good, bad and ugly. In this climate it is VERY tough to keep good people.

Unfortunately, it also heavily depends on if the type course for the aircraft is still in production. Both training providers will tend to put the stronger instructors on the newer and shinier aircraft. Of course, that means the legacy types suffer.

As a customer with advanced notice you may request certain instructors if you have a memorable experience. Most certainly if you are not happy with an instructor at CAE or FSI they will reassign instructors if there is a clash of personalities.

[daedalusx]

Customer service has been phenomenal with FSI

That's true. But it's a fine line between phenomenal customer service and crappy training level though. I found the level of training at FSI significantly lower than any in house training I've ever done. Don't worry, you'll pass your tests and your flight tests, but the standards are very low. I remember quotes such as "we usually don't touch upon that until renewal" and "I don't know, just don't press that button".

It's possible the same is true at CAE. I don't know, I've never attended any training there.

I've had the same experience going for my KA350 TR at FSI ICT more than a decade ago.
Ground school instructor - 0 hours experience on the type teaching. (ex 727 driver)
Sim instructor - 0 hours experience on the type (retired Fathom F4 driver)
Actually neither of these guy had any real life experience with turboprop, de-icing boots and glass cockpits ...

Very very easy course, very very low standards.

[cjp]

Customer service has been phenomenal with FSI

That's true. But it's a fine line between phenomenal customer service and crappy training level though. I found the level of training at FSI significantly lower than any in house training I've ever done. Don't worry, you'll pass your tests and your flight tests, but the standards are very low. I remember quotes such as "we usually don't touch upon that until renewal" and "I don't know, just don't press that button".

It's possible the same is true at CAE. I don't know, I've never attended any training there.

I've had the same experience going for my KA350 TR at FSI ICT more than a decade ago.
Ground school instructor - 0 hours experience on the type teaching. (ex 727 driver)
Sim instructor - 0 hours experience on the type (retired Fathom F4 driver)
Actually neither of these guy had any real life experience with turboprop, de-icing boots and glass cockpits ...

Very very easy course, very very low standards.

I've had the same thing, and that's sometimes expected, but the difference when I went there was that the instructors cared, spent the time and effort to learn the aircraft they were providing the material for. They may have zero experience on type BUT they listened. Some even went through our company SOPs to relate material. Didn't matter if it was a Phantom or Viper driver, ex-United 747 Captain, they all spent the time to learn the material to faciliate it - then they applied their worldly experience to the lessons which was a lot of fun to learn from.

I always appreciated that, and looked past their lack of direct experience, as long as they could accurately facilitate the material.

That said, internal programs generally are more accurate, and there is a deeper level of learning, which for many, can be too much initially. It usually takes to recurrent or year 2 to really absorb all the lessons.

[rigpiggy]

From an airline standpoint, CAE has superior sims. Bizav, FSI has the better customer experience, which is what you notice when you're at the same facility 20-30 days in a row. If I were doing a bizav type on a Challenger or Global, I would pick CAE Montreal out of pure convenience, but otherwise FSI all the way for any other type - except Dassault in TEB. I'd go to Dallas or Savannah.

afaik cae makes the Sims for both cae/FSI

[AirportCoffee]

FSI for initials is the superior product just with their physical/digital material alone. CAE for recurrents gets the job done

[cjp]

From an airline standpoint, CAE has superior sims. Bizav, FSI has the better customer experience, which is what you notice when you're at the same facility 20-30 days in a row. If I were doing a bizav type on a Challenger or Global, I would pick CAE Montreal out of pure convenience, but otherwise FSI all the way for any other type - except Dassault in TEB. I'd go to Dallas or Savannah.

afaik cae makes the Sims for both cae/FSI

I don't know if CAE was exclusive to FSI. I think depending on the facility FSI used a number of different sim developers. One of which was acquired by CAE.

FSI for initials is the superior product just with their physical/digital material alone. CAE for recurrents gets the job done

Agreed.

[co-joe]

The major difference between the two, and it's one that can't be ignored, is that FSI had free granola bars.

[khedrei]

The major difference between the two, and it's one that can't be ignored, is that FSI had free granola bars.

Just granola bars??

The one I went to had free everything. Drinks of all sorts, popcorn, bagels, doughnuts, candy and lunch twice a week.

[A-Team]

They’re both just as good as the instructors that are there at the time. You end up with a bad instructor and it doesn’t matter what the course is, it’s a complete waste of time.

[co-joe]

The major difference between the two, and it's one that can't be ignored, is that FSI had free granola bars.

Just granola bars??

The one I went to had free everything. Drinks of all sorts, popcorn, bagels, doughnuts, candy and lunch twice a week.

I seem to remember the one in SEA having cup-o-noodles as well, but I didn't want to get anyone's hopes up in case that was a one off thing.