Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:32 am
From the Air Canada ruling on working past 60: It underscored that retirement policies must evolve with international standards
Take it up with ICAO then, and the FAA. They won’t allow anyone over 65 in their airspace. It’s not age discrimination by the airline if you’re not legally allowed to do the job anymore.
Yes, you are correct but in Canada there is no such rule, so unless it’s an undue hardship, WJ legally needs to accommodate in Canada.
If there is Canada only flying, they have the responsibility to provide aged pilots an accommodation
How does Air Canada get away with it? They have plenty of domestic narrow body flying and forced retirement at 65.
I imagine no one has filed a complaint yet or maybe they have been able to argue undue hardship, I haven’t heard but Jazz is doing it.
It is very limited because of the different fleet types, no age restricted pilots on the E175 because 100% or very close to it is trans border.
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:32 am
From the Air Canada ruling on working past 60: It underscored that retirement policies must evolve with international standards
Take it up with ICAO then, and the FAA. They won’t allow anyone over 65 in their airspace. It’s not age discrimination by the airline if you’re not legally allowed to do the job anymore.
iCAO says that. Canada, New Zealand, Australia and many more allow over 65.
Regardless, I was just replying to the bigot who think it is ok to discriminate against people based on their age against human rights aligned principles in Canada to further advance his career
Doesn’t affect much at Jazz. They can fly the RJ out west doing YQR turns or whatever. Can also fly the Q400 since it’s mostly all domestic. Also a very limited number of positions available on the RJ. The problem at AC is any longer flights out west or east tend to cross the US airspace. I suppose they theoretically could do Rapidair turns to YUL out of Toronto after 65 if you are that dead set at working in your final years.
Inverted2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:22 am
Doesn’t affect much at Jazz. They can fly the RJ out west doing YQR turns or whatever. Can also fly the Q400 since it’s mostly all domestic. Also a very limited number of positions available on the RJ. The problem at AC is any longer flights out west or east tend to cross the US airspace. I suppose they theoretically could do Rapidair turns to YUL out of Toronto after 65 if you are that dead set at working in your final years.
IMG_1150.jpeg (111.36 KiB) Viewed 4731 times
That’s an age-restricted YYZ YHZ flight at WJ. An amazing amount of extra time and fuel
Inverted2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:22 am
Doesn’t affect much at Jazz. They can fly the RJ out west doing YQR turns or whatever. Can also fly the Q400 since it’s mostly all domestic. Also a very limited number of positions available on the RJ. The problem at AC is any longer flights out west or east tend to cross the US airspace. I suppose they theoretically could do Rapidair turns to YUL out of Toronto after 65 if you are that dead set at working in your final years.
IMG_1150.jpeg
That’s an age-restricted YYZ YHZ flight at WJ. An amazing amount of extra time and fuel
Is that for real? Brutal.
Air Canada has already had this issue challenged in court in 2021 and the court upheld the ICAO limit (currently 65). The main reason given was the international nature of our flying overrides the duty to accommodate. The threshold used by the arbitrator was very low, only 5% of flights exiting Canadian airspace or requiring a USA alternate (AC is obviously way above that). Hasn't been challenged since.
Arbitrator Eli Gedalof ruled on this in 2021, who by the way is the same arbitrator who just issued the seniority integration for WestJet and Sunwing.
The merger committee sent a personalized career planner to all pilots today. A good friend of mine who's been here for 2 years showed me his, he can expect a captain upgrade at the 16 year mark, assuming everyone starts retiring at 65 and the fleet plan doesn't change.
That kind of career progression is gonna push a lot of junior FOs to team red.
Pretty much every junior FO I've been flying with is going or has an interview with AC coming up. I was told if you have at least 500 hours on the 737, you're getting shortlisted.
MaxAuto wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:27 pm
Pretty much every junior FO I've been flying with is going or has an interview with AC coming up. I was told if you have at least 500 hours on the 737, you're getting shortlisted.
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 7:57 pm
The merger committee sent a personalized career planner to all pilots today. A good friend of mine who's been here for 2 years showed me his, he can expect a captain upgrade at the 16 year mark, assuming everyone starts retiring at 65 and the fleet plan doesn't change.
That kind of career progression is gonna push a lot of junior FOs to team red.
I hope that's flawed, otherwise it's a brutal career path. No wonder morale is not the best at Westjet these days.
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 7:57 pm
The merger committee sent a personalized career planner to all pilots today. A good friend of mine who's been here for 2 years showed me his, he can expect a captain upgrade at the 16 year mark, assuming everyone starts retiring at 65 and the fleet plan doesn't change.
That kind of career progression is gonna push a lot of junior FOs to team red.
I hope that's flawed, otherwise it's a brutal career path. No wonder morale is not the best at Westjet these days.
I’m at year 9 and the career planner predicts another 4 years to reach the 60% seniority mark needed currently to upgrade. I could imagine it being closer to 20 years for a new hire. Simply mind blowing numbers for the left seat on a narrow body (and to go bottom of the reserve list at that).
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:32 am
From the Air Canada ruling on working past 60: It underscored that retirement policies must evolve with international standards
Take it up with ICAO then, and the FAA. They won’t allow anyone over 65 in their airspace. It’s not age discrimination by the airline if you’re not legally allowed to do the job anymore.
Yes, you are correct but in Canada there is no such rule, so unless it’s an undue hardship, WJ legally needs to accommodate in Canada.
If there is Canada only flying, they have the responsibility to provide aged pilots an accommodation
How does Air Canada get away with it? They have plenty of domestic narrow body flying and forced retirement at 65.
Nature of the operation. That was the CHRT ruling. BFOR.
nohojob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:33 am
The planner predicts according to the base ?
Shouldn't be different whether you are in YYZ or YYC for instance ?
13 years seems a lot. I can imagine lots of FOs will send their cv to AC.
You're correct. That's for the most junior base (YWG currently). YYC would be a couple more years. And YYZ is anyone's guess with rumours of a reduction bid coming in 12 months.
nohojob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:33 am
The planner predicts according to the base ?
Shouldn't be different whether you are in YYZ or YYC for instance ?
13 years seems a lot. I can imagine lots of FOs will send their cv to AC.
You're correct. That's for the most junior base (YWG currently). YYC would be a couple more years. And YYZ is anyone's guess with rumours of a reduction bid coming in 12 months.
To be left seat block holder out of YYC you'd be probably looking at 20 years ...
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MaxAuto wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:27 pm
Pretty much every junior FO I've been flying with is going or has an interview with AC coming up. I was told if you have at least 500 hours on the 737, you're getting shortlisted.
I wonder how high attrition will be to AC? Especially in YVR, YYZ and YUL.
nohojob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:33 am
The planner predicts according to the base ?
Shouldn't be different whether you are in YYZ or YYC for instance ?
13 years seems a lot. I can imagine lots of FOs will send their cv to AC.
You're correct. That's for the most junior base (YWG currently). YYC would be a couple more years. And YYZ is anyone's guess with rumours of a reduction bid coming in 12 months.
To be left seat block holder out of YYC you'd be probably looking at 20 years ...
Wow, it was bad enough when it was 10 years, 20, who’s waiting for that.
nohojob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:33 am
The planner predicts according to the base ?
Shouldn't be different whether you are in YYZ or YYC for instance ?
13 years seems a lot. I can imagine lots of FOs will send their cv to AC.
You're correct. That's for the most junior base (YWG currently). YYC would be a couple more years. And YYZ is anyone's guess with rumours of a reduction bid coming in 12 months.
To be left seat block holder out of YYC you'd be probably looking at 20 years ...
So what will happen to the individuals who are current left seat at say 12 years? Fenced to protect their seat? Or when the fence period ends they will loose that seat even with say 15 YOS?
Position bid openings came out and absolutely 0 captains openings, meanwhile captains are averaging 10-20 hrs more per month vs first officers. The logical thing would be to upgrade more pilots to balance the hours out. So please tell me why an airline wouldn’t follow this logic?
737lakepilot wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:11 pm
Position bid openings came out and absolutely 0 captains openings, meanwhile captains are averaging 10-20 hrs more per month vs first officers. The logical thing would be to upgrade more pilots to balance the hours out. So please tell me why an airline wouldn’t follow this logic?
Money.
Upgrading people has a cost. You can RSQ all captains and basically make them FOs
Also, it’s a bad time to do anything drastic when a merger is happening
