Future AME Discouraged

[Pat Richard]

News flash. Not all aviation related companies are junk. Sorry that you feel so bitter about your experiences but you aren’t speaking for all of us.

OK, from the maintenance perspective, how about naming a couple?

[TeePeeCreeper]

News flash. Not all aviation related companies are junk. Sorry that you feel so bitter about your experiences but you aren’t speaking for all of us.

OK, from the maintenance perspective, how about naming a couple?

They exist Pat. You know they do and we both know they are far and few between unfortunately.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

News flash. Not all aviation related companies are junk. Sorry that you feel so bitter about your experiences but you aren’t speaking for all of us.

OK, from the maintenance perspective, how about naming a couple?

I’d be happy if they named ONE!

[Bug_Stomper_01]

News flash. Not all aviation related companies are junk. Sorry that you feel so bitter about your experiences but you aren’t speaking for all of us.

OK, from the maintenance perspective, how about naming a couple?

They exist Pat. You know they do and we both know they are far and few between unfortunately.

Can you name one?

[TeePeeCreeper]

OK, from the maintenance perspective, how about naming a couple?

They exist Pat. You know they do and we both know they are far and few between unfortunately.

Can you name one?

Yep, I can name a couple… BUT would it matter? You all seem to be hell bent on raising shit online and being butt hurt on an aviation forum. I don’t get why you gents would be actively posting here since that’s all you seem to do!

Assuming you’ve both decided to stick with turning wrenches on airplanes… what are you both doing to promote this (salary increase/QOL) cause in your respective work places?

On my end of things, the maintenance guys/gals whom keep me safe are well paid although I’ll agree it could be better. They are currently taking affirmative action in a passive yet noticeable manner at work. Our employer is taking note. Affirmative action on their part seems to be working. Hint: They aren’t on Avcanada bitching…

[Pat Richard]

News flash. Not all aviation related companies are junk. Sorry that you feel so bitter about your experiences but you aren’t speaking for all of us.

OK, from the maintenance perspective, how about naming a couple?

They exist Pat. You know they do and we both know they are far and few between unfortunately.

I was doing this for almost 30 years, and in all seriousness I never found ONE employer that I reflect on thinking "Yeah, that was a great place to work."
Not one.

Some were less shite than others but none actually gave a serious shit about their maintenance staff and ALL were actively trying, in varying intensities, to intimidate/dominate their mechs.

Pilots at least, on more than one occasion, demonstrated some sort of cohesion as a group when similar action was being administered while mechs at best would be slightly vocal, then cower and cave. In bigger outfits particularly, mechs are mostly pussies when it comes to having a backbone.
The scared sheep mentality definetly applies and lack of recognized, transferable skills is also a large player.

So what does anybody who has a modicum of self respect, has years of experience, but is the extreme minority in the workplace do to enhance awareness and effect change? You are of the mindset, as are all aviation enthusiasts, that dissenters should shut up and leave forums such as this.
You claim that happy, content mechs aren't on here because theres no need to be. So why are so many pilots actively on this site if your analysis is accurate?

By your reasoning happy, wide eyed mechs should be here participating actively about maintenance snags, procedures, etc, just as the pilots talk shop, right?

What people like yourself need to experience is your means of revenue generation halted due to either basic shortage of experienced mechs to service aircraft or a herd of leaderless, woke millenial/gen Z's firing the part cannon at everything before any real change is implemented.

The writing is on the wall for at least the maintenance side of this business indicatind its in a death spiral.

Regardless of what any enthusiast believes, it wont be righted by pumping out more graduates or importing from overseas.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

OK, from the maintenance perspective, how about naming a couple?

They exist Pat. You know they do and we both know they are far and few between unfortunately.

I was doing this for almost 30 years, and in all seriousness I never found ONE employer that I reflect on thinking "Yeah, that was a great place to work."
Not one.

Some were less shite than others but none actually gave a serious shit about their maintenance staff and ALL were actively trying, in varying intensities, to intimidate/dominate their mechs.

Pilots at least, on more than one occasion, demonstrated some sort of cohesion as a group when similar action was being administered while mechs at best would be slightly vocal, then cower and cave. In bigger outfits particularly, mechs are mostly pussies when it comes to having a backbone.
The scared sheep mentality definetly applies and lack of recognized, transferable skills is also a large player.

So what does anybody who has a modicum of self respect, has years of experience, but is the extreme minority in the workplace do to enhance awareness and effect change? You are of the mindset, as are all aviation enthusiasts, that dissenters should shut up and leave forums such as this.
You claim that happy, content mechs aren't on here because theres no need to be. So why are so many pilots actively on this site if your analysis is accurate?

By your reasoning happy, wide eyed mechs should be here participating actively about maintenance snags, procedures, etc, just as the pilots talk shop, right?

What people like yourself need to experience is your means of revenue generation halted due to either basic shortage of experienced mechs to service aircraft or a herd of leaderless, woke millenial/gen Z's firing the part cannon at everything before any real change is implemented.

The writing is on the wall for at least the maintenance side of this business indicatind its in a death spiral.

Regardless of what any enthusiast believes, it wont be righted by pumping out more graduates or importing from overseas.

From what I’m seeing the new graduates are few to none in the last couple years. The ones that do come out of school these days are mostly useless.
I disagree that the trade has no transferable skills however, we have much more than that of a driver. Industry is heavily pushing for foreign licenses to fill in the gap, as there are lesser and lesser domestic licenses willing to work for the crap work conditions Canada’s industry affords us.
This teepeecreeper is completely out of touch with the overall industry’s position and how much technicians are actually content in doing this anymore. The only way to make a decent living in Canada as an AME is to work for yourself and farm out your own amo/licenses. I wonder if Mr teepee is an AME?

[Bug_Stomper_01]

They exist Pat. You know they do and we both know they are far and few between unfortunately.

Can you name one?

Yep, I can name a couple… BUT would it matter?

Yes it does, so we can evaluate what you deem good employers, and therefore your credibility. We’ve both been around for decades and I for one know pretty well every major (and most ma and pa) employers in the helicopter world as well as fixed wing in Canada. Name some of these illustrious companies you boast are so awesome to their maintenance staff, I’m sure that would be appreciated by management!

[Pat Richard]

They exist Pat. You know they do and we both know they are far and few between unfortunately.

I was doing this for almost 30 years, and in all seriousness I never found ONE employer that I reflect on thinking "Yeah, that was a great place to work."
Not one.

Some were less shite than others but none actually gave a serious shit about their maintenance staff and ALL were actively trying, in varying intensities, to intimidate/dominate their mechs.

Pilots at least, on more than one occasion, demonstrated some sort of cohesion as a group when similar action was being administered while mechs at best would be slightly vocal, then cower and cave. In bigger outfits particularly, mechs are mostly pussies when it comes to having a backbone.
The scared sheep mentality definetly applies and lack of recognized, transferable skills is also a large player.

So what does anybody who has a modicum of self respect, has years of experience, but is the extreme minority in the workplace do to enhance awareness and effect change? You are of the mindset, as are all aviation enthusiasts, that dissenters should shut up and leave forums such as this.
You claim that happy, content mechs aren't on here because theres no need to be. So why are so many pilots actively on this site if your analysis is accurate?

By your reasoning happy, wide eyed mechs should be here participating actively about maintenance snags, procedures, etc, just as the pilots talk shop, right?

What people like yourself need to experience is your means of revenue generation halted due to either basic shortage of experienced mechs to service aircraft or a herd of leaderless, woke millenial/gen Z's firing the part cannon at everything before any real change is implemented.

The writing is on the wall for at least the maintenance side of this business indicatind its in a death spiral.

Regardless of what any enthusiast believes, it wont be righted by pumping out more graduates or importing from overseas.

From what I’m seeing the new graduates are few to none in the last couple years. The ones that do come out of school these days are mostly useless.
I disagree that the trade has no transferable skills however, we have much more than that of a driver. Industry is heavily pushing for foreign licenses to fill in the gap, as there are lesser and lesser domestic licenses willing to work for the crap work conditions Canada’s industry affords us.
This teepeecreeper is completely out of touch with the overall industry’s position and how much technicians are actually content in doing this anymore. The only way to make a decent living in Canada as an AME is to work for yourself and farm out your own amo/licenses. I wonder if Mr teepee is an AME?

I was coming from the direction of "recognized transferrable skills" , as all of the times I attempted to flee aviation I was met with confusion because they didnt know what accreditation they give me. This way before the current trades shortage and Im confident it would mostly be different if attempting the same.
Doesn't matter now anyway. Im too old to start over in a completly new field but I also have zero interest in tolerating the woke meatheads the schools are pumping out. Im not passing on most of my 737 family experience(among others) to anyone and that makes me happy because in some small way it makes it harder for the cheap assed companies in Canuckistan to operate.

Maybe turdeau can import some experience

[TeePeeCreeper]

They exist Pat. You know they do and we both know they are far and few between unfortunately.

I was doing this for almost 30 years, and in all seriousness I never found ONE employer that I reflect on thinking "Yeah, that was a great place to work."
Not one.

Some were less shite than others but none actually gave a serious shit about their maintenance staff and ALL were actively trying, in varying intensities, to intimidate/dominate their mechs.

Pilots at least, on more than one occasion, demonstrated some sort of cohesion as a group when similar action was being administered while mechs at best would be slightly vocal, then cower and cave. In bigger outfits particularly, mechs are mostly pussies when it comes to having a backbone.
The scared sheep mentality definetly applies and lack of recognized, transferable skills is also a large player.

So what does anybody who has a modicum of self respect, has years of experience, but is the extreme minority in the workplace do to enhance awareness and effect change? You are of the mindset, as are all aviation enthusiasts, that dissenters should shut up and leave forums such as this.
You claim that happy, content mechs aren't on here because theres no need to be. So why are so many pilots actively on this site if your analysis is accurate?

By your reasoning happy, wide eyed mechs should be here participating actively about maintenance snags, procedures, etc, just as the pilots talk shop, right?

What people like yourself need to experience is your means of revenue generation halted due to either basic shortage of experienced mechs to service aircraft or a herd of leaderless, woke millenial/gen Z's firing the part cannon at everything before any real change is implemented.

The writing is on the wall for at least the maintenance side of this business indicatind its in a death spiral.

Regardless of what any enthusiast believes, it wont be righted by pumping out more graduates or importing from overseas.

From what I’m seeing the new graduates are few to none in the last couple years. The ones that do come out of school these days are mostly useless.
I disagree that the trade has no transferable skills however, we have much more than that of a driver. Industry is heavily pushing for foreign licenses to fill in the gap, as there are lesser and lesser domestic licenses willing to work for the crap work conditions Canada’s industry affords us.
This teepeecreeper is completely out of touch with the overall industry’s position and how much technicians are actually content in doing this anymore. The only way to make a decent living in Canada as an AME is to work for yourself and farm out your own amo/licenses. I wonder if Mr teepee is an AME?

A big thank you to Pat, for a most informative reply to mine. It’s rather refreshing to converse politely.

@ Bug

No, I am not an AME but I’ve gotten a chance to get some insight that most pilot’s haven’t. Although not licenced as an AME I’ve held the title of PRM and QA manager. Although neither experience was “pleasant” it did provide a non Mx guy an insider view of the BS that some of you are dealing with.

With that said, If I’ve caused any offence, I would like to sincerely apologize for it.

In all honesty, pilots and AME’s should be in solitary. This biz sucks at times but I sure hope you remember that it isn’t always as bad as flying/turning a wrench on a cubicle could be!

Take care guys and thank you for keeping us legal/safe.

TPC

[ludivicchua]

This industry is broken starting from the school system! According to what I've heard as a millennial, the accredited AME program was just 1 year in the past, then they've made it a 2-year program. The Aerospace component of the school is segregated from the rest of the school (the school has it's own wing dedicated to Aviation education), so there is no other distraction. Majority of the students and graduates these schools produce are international students (mostly from Asia) who don't have a PR. The problem here is they brought in many inexperienced young students with poor qualities and these schools have done nothing to teach them acceptable work ethics, rather they tolerate, promote, and embolden these common characters. To them it's just business! These mentors do not work in the industry anymore, they work for the school! None of them will openly tell you the terrible state of this industry nor discourage you from going to Aviation! That will be bad for their business! Most of the graduates will not be pursuing a career in Aviation, that is to be expected given the reality of this industry. Given all this, the schools do produce very few qualified and decent graduates fit for the job in all fairness, but those are older people with past experience (related or not related to Aviation). I do agree, most people these schools produce are useless, and to them it's just good business! Outside of the schools, there is no money to make!

"The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!"

I disagree that the trade has no transferable skills however,

Sure! They are not recognized though! Believe me, I already tried to apply it outside of Aviation to no avail! I walked out of here with nothing!

[Bug_Stomper_01]

This industry is broken starting from the school system! According to what I've heard as a millennial, the accredited AME program was just 1 year in the past, then they've made it a 2-year program. The Aerospace component of the school is segregated from the rest of the school (the school has it's own wing dedicated to Aviation education), so there is no other distraction. Majority of the students and graduates these schools produce are international students (mostly from Asia) who don't have a PR. The problem here is they brought in many inexperienced young students with poor qualities and these schools have done nothing to teach them acceptable work ethics, rather they tolerate, promote, and embolden these common characters. To them it's just business! These mentors do not work in the industry anymore, they work for the school! None of them will openly tell you the terrible state of this industry nor discourage you from going to Aviation! That will be bad for their business! Most of the graduates will not be pursuing a career in Aviation, that is to be expected given the reality of this industry. Given all this, the schools do produce very few qualified and decent graduates fit for the job in all fairness, but those are older people with past experience (related or not related to Aviation). I do agree, most people these schools produce are useless, and to them it's just good business! Outside of the schools, there is no money to make!

"The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!"

I disagree that the trade has no transferable skills however,

Sure! They are not recognized though! Believe me, I already tried to apply it outside of Aviation to no avail! I walked out of here with nothing!

No, you are wrong, other industries absolutely recognize the trade (I’ve personally done it), it’s how you’ve gone about things that didn’t sell.

[ludivicchua]

No, you are wrong, other industries absolutely recognize the trade (I’ve personally done it), it’s how you’ve gone about things that didn’t sell.

You are the more experienced one. For me, I tried it, it didn't worked. I landed job interviews, they didn't look into it! In the airlines, I feel that everything we are doing are mostly specific to that trade. Ofcourse to be an AME, we must know technicalities related to aircrafts and apply that knowledge, but most of what we are doing are conforming to valid references in performing maintenance, and looking for snags to identify and rectify. Only little of these skills are useful and applicable elsewhere! And then they will pay you like this! I didn't even felt that I had a stable formal job doing this sh*t! Working a full-time job as an AME in a big and busy airline felt like I am selling hot dogs for a living!

Aviation in general sucks no matter what country you are doing it in! None of the stakeholders have done anything to raise and address many of the existing problems/concerns that have long been present in this industry, so give me one reason why I should care? We are influenced by our environment!

[ludivicchua]

I'm just going to conclude my experience and opinion regarding the Aviation industry. Doing a different job in a different industry, that is not Aviation, that is more practical in literally every aspect, is already difficult because the cost of living in Canada is too expensive, especially the housing. Canada has too much social, economical, and political problems that a lot of people are migrating out of the country. When you go to commercial places in cities, when you take the public transit, you are gonna see an increase in poverty and homelessness. Your opportunity here to improve your living standard and financial security as an aging person, as a minority Asian, is already small and shrinking. It's very hard to get by, our schedule is already hectic that often we don't even have enough time to rest, how much more time and energy can we afford to waste on impractical things the demanding Aviation industry require us to do? It's just unproductive of our already limited time! It's not the lack or absence of money that is making me unproductive, it's the financial burden (a negative current account) that I have, mainly caused by the unaffordable housing we have in this country. I already live in the more pleasant white neighborhood in the hood in the disadvantaged outskirt of the city-proper, and it's still impossible to afford the housing here? I'm just 30 years old, I'm single, I have no family to support. How much more can a person take if they have a family to support and they are old? Life is already hard as it is here in Canada to the point that I am aware that I'm having mental problems, why would you crucify yourself for Aviation? I'm not a masochist!
Maybe I have the mental aptitude and academics to learn and do technical things, I'm also a logical person, but I don't have the emotional strength to do these sadistic things in an already inherently difficult life. No matter how logical a person is, instinct/emotion is always going to precede. It is a double-edged survival trait living beings have that make them react to threats quicker than using conscious thinking. It's a human trait that when you don't feel good, you don't perform! My emotion and my logic don't want me to do Aviation anymore! I mentally broke down doing it! How dare them talk about human factors when they don't give a f*ck about it and they do nothing about it in practice? That is lip service because they are the ones who couldn't care any less!
Find a rock who could do your maintenance because I ain't doing it! It is an impractical autocratic abusive of a job! Who will do that?
I'm done! I cannot do it! Many people commit suicide doing this job, seriously! If you don't believe me, go read up about it!
Nobody here gives a f*ck, not the operators, not the government or any bloc! As I already said, they will just psychologically, medically, scientifically, and institutionally gaslight you! I'm a victim of this, and why should I search for justice when they will continue to do the same thing against any of your arguments? They do not give a f*ck, I also do not give a f*ck! This is all about interest! Go to your next generation of Apprentices every time there is shortage and let's see how long you can keep this up!
I don't care anymore! Aviation is not my personal problem to begin with!

[all_ramped_up]

Wow.

Tell us how you really feel. But in less words than Homer's Iliad please.

We have plenty of transferrable skills. I had to use them during the Pandemic lockdowns. Apparently we can work high steel and build gondolas.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Wow.

Tell us how you really feel. But in less words than Homer's Iliad please.

We have plenty of transferrable skills. I had to use them during the Pandemic lockdowns. Apparently we can work high steel and build gondolas.

He’s clearly as pissed off as most should be but more vocal about it lol. And yes we all have technical ability to apply to other facets in life. I know a few guys recently I came across at a local watering hole that are ames that have recently stepped away from a company in the helicopter world and without work to contemplate their next move in life. These gentlemen have >20 years experience and management capacity for their CV’s. Both left without a job and both will not come back to the industry in any sort of full time capacity. The industry is really leaning hard on foreign talent but as the other poster has divulged (as a global transplant) even immigrants are seeing how crap things are. The next move by industry will be another disingenuous crap campaign at the college and social media level.

[ludivicchua]

Here is the reality: You don't make enough money working as an Apprentice or a non-certifying AME. You have to pay for your endorsements and sign for the work. They will pay you between $30/hr to $50/hr maximum to do that depending on your experience. They have to produce experienced AMEs, and how do you do that with low starting pay? Nobody will want to work as an AME Apprentice or a non-certifying AME for the rest of their life with the ridiculously low pay associated with them! Nobody will even work to climb up to or work as a certifying AME with it's associated responsibilities and expenses for $50/hr maximum pay rate! This salary offer is standard in the industry and remained unchanged since I entered the workforce 10 years ago! The pay just doesn't compensate us enough to even make a living out of this work! No wonder they are having difficulties attracting recruits and retaining workers! Nobody will do this job with it's terrible working condition and low pay! This job is broken since we have a progressive tax system in Canada and the airlines are not subsidizing our incurred expenses, leaving you with lower net pay. This job is just not worth doing! If you decide to do it, then they just passed you the headaches!

Speaking of the pay, the rates are like that because the airline industry is globally competitive towards low costs. We also have a rising fuel cost which is an increase of expense to the airlines operating at already low profit margin! If you look at the airline fees compared to 10 years ago, nothing has changed--in fact, it even got a little cheaper! Seriously, with the inflation? And we also have to realize that maintenance has nothing to do with production as it doesn't generate revenue for the airlines, it is a separate department that has to do with necessary operating expenses, so ofcourse they will trim down spending in it as it has no effect on their revenue! Overall the airline industry don't even make enough money for a high-risk business that requires big investments! Do you want to put your future on an unstable and unlucrative industry such as this?

It's the worst career to get into and I had a terrible experience getting into it! It sucks and I see no future in it!

[DonutHole]

Check out the AME job ads on this site

Inland Air is paying 100k a year + 1 month of vacation, health insurance, and flight benefits for an M1 AME

Flexible schedule, 9-5 5 days a week, working on beavers. easy work for good pay

Also looking for apprentices. Base rate for a fresh out of schoolie 21.50 + rental subsidy, 3 weeks of vacation, health insurance and benefits. If you're 3rd or 4th year you're looking at 60-75k

[ludivicchua]

That job offer looks well, but how stable is it? I'm no M1 nor I know anything about it, but when I googled "inland air", I see planes on floats. Looks to me like one of those bush flight career that I hear of.

In general, this profession is so demanding yet it pays like a piece of sh*t. The industry is also so small. Often times, they give bad schedule. It's just so horrible and nothing has changed. You cannot make a living doing this f*cking job!

You got a job offer like this? Take it, because I'm telling you it's not stable and it's rare!

This career and this industry is just a joke! I've had enough!

[DonutHole]

That job offer looks well, but how stable is it? I'm no M1 nor I know anything about it, but when I googled "inland air", I see planes on floats. Looks to me like one of those bush flight career that I hear of.

In general, this profession is so demanding yet it pays like a piece of sh*t. The industry is also so small. Often times, they give bad schedule. It's just so horrible and nothing has changed. You cannot make a living doing this f*cking job!

You got a job offer like this? Take it, because I'm telling you it's not stable and it's rare!

This career and this industry is just a joke! I've had enough!

Inland Air has been around since 1981. I'd say that's a pretty good indication of stability.