Expat Flying

[yowflyer23]

Are there any expat airlines still worth making a career out of anymore? It's frustating seeing the QOL decline in Canada by most metrics, but it seems like a lot of the "classic" expat airlines like Emirates, Cathay, etc are no longer what they once were. Reading this forum or pprune would lead one to believe that those airlines suck the life out of you and that most people eventually end up returning to Canada in the end. It's higher pay but you sacrifice a lot on QOL or your contract can be modified at the company's whim, etc. Is it worth leaving anymore or is it better to just get a seniority number at AC or Westjet, live with the high taxation/COL, and hope you never need to get a surgery or depend on any government services?

[GodlvlPilot]

There's a lot of bias to overseas airlines by Canadians i find.

As someone in the process with Emirates I have found a lot of my concerns have been brought up and answered. Currently in their ground school is 2 air canada guys.

Yes there is some sacrifices to going overseas and yes those airlines such as cathay are no longer as great as they once we're but I believe it absolutely is better then any opportunity in Canada. There's lots of guys that tell you, "oh but you'll have to come back and join flair". The majority of guys I now who did their career overseas probably did because they didn't want to retire and still do some flying but they have to pay taxes.

From what I can see with Emirates current contract it has way better QOL of life measurements, overnights, salary and bonus opportunities in comparison to Canadian companies.

I'd say apply, can always say no if you wanna stay stuck, become toxic and defend the shit pile that's our industry

[‘Bob’]

There is no quick and easy way. Canadian airlines pay like crap because they know that expat living isn’t for everyone and it’s not if but when people return.

I have flown with lots of ex CX and EK guys back here in Canada starting at the bottom or the middle again. COL (C Scale in HK when you have to pay your own accommodations makes YVR and YYZ seem very affordable), work life balance (horrible at both operators), family ties to Canada, COVID, etc. You have to plan your exit strategy.

The people who have done the best I think were ones that had a military pension before and were able to build a decent nest egg with a solid exit strategy, and took lifestyle positions here.

[Eric Janson]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:-

Do not give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat

[careerpilot?]

What about Caribbean? Anyone with any experience do any expat flying down south?

The wife and I have bounced a kind of half serious dream back and forth about selling everything up here and moving to the Caribbean. I'll be sitting on my military pension, with ATPL(H) and CPL(A) in hand, and our kids grown up and finished school. It seems like a viable option. There are helo operators on many of the islands for sightseeing tours, and there's Caribbean Airlines out of Barbados and Trinidad, amongst other smaller airlines.

Has anyone flown down in the east Caribbean?

[Blueontop]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:-

Do not give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat

Please expand on this logic, tia

[goldeneagle]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:-

Do not give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat

The voice of experience speaks, likely nobody will listen, blinded by $$$ signs.

[Bleed Air]

And if another COVID type event happens, you"ll be out on your ass.
No Union, no protection, everything changeable at the company"s whim.
Not as stable as might think.

[‘Bob’]

And if another COVID type event happens, you"ll be out on your ass.
No Union, no protection, everything changeable at the company"s whim.
Not as stable as might think.

Out on your ass with CERB/CEWS and able to find local work in medevac/fire/cargo and still go back to a seat with YOS.

Vs having to come back to Canada, start at the bottom again, lifestyle adjustment, or not going back or realizing what you were missing here in Canada when COVID made a lot of us re-examine what’s really important.

The free markets tend to find balance. If it pays more it’s generally because it costs more other ways.

[Eric Janson]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:-

Do not give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat

Please expand on this logic, tia

Certainly.

I became Expat not by choice but by circumstances beyond my control - 2 Airline bankruptcies and 3 employers in 5 years.

I decided to try something different. I really had no idea what I was getting myself into.

Moved to a small Flag Carrier in S Asia. Very different culture than what I was used to. I was determined to make it work.

I had a lot of "What am I doing here?" days - mostly in the first year.

There was a lot of adjustment - things worked very differently and it required an adjustment.

Those that could make the adjustment stayed - those that couldn't were gone within a year.

There is a huge difference in visiting a country versus living there - I can't emphasise that enough.

Expats were there to do the flights the locals didn't want. I did a lot of night turnarounds to the Middle East. Destination had Monsoon or Winter conditions? - I'd be flying there.

No question - I was a second class temp employee.

It was a very relaxed lifestyle - I would go to the beach on my off days (400m from where I lived) and meet up with colleagues for dinner. Cost of living was very low and I was able to bank my entire salary (tax free).

I managed to explore a lot of the country on my off days. Highlights included one of the most spectacular festivals I've ever seen and I have video of animals in the wild that look like a National Geographic special! Having some local contacts is very important if you want to see/do things.

I had colleagues that had not seen or done anything in 10 years at the Airline. To each his own.

I made it a point to be polite and to treat everyone the way I'd hope to be treated - I didn't cause problems for them and never heard much from them.

I never could get people to call me anything but 'Captain' - some cultural barriers can't be erased with a few CRM classes.

There was one flight where there was a question of me taking off below limits. I explained how I'd calculated them - my Chief Pilot said he would have done the same and that was the end of that.

I was able to take 3 x 3 weeks holidays every year. They had really good staff travel - I was able to jumpseat to London/Paris/Frankfurt and then use a Zed ticket or take the train home.

I was always treated fairly until the last 2 weeks when they cancelled my contract and forced me to leave the country. They did pay me every penny they owed me. Never did find out why.

I was fortunate that I was in the right place at the right time - I got an A330 and an A340 rating out of it.

There are no guarantees in the Expat world. Not all Expat jobs are the same - I ended up at one of the better ones.

The most important thing I learned is the value of living at home. Eight years as Expat really reinforced that.

The above is the Primary reason why I joined my present company. On my off days I'm at home sleeping in my own bed.


I see issues like job stability have been covered by other posters.

Hope this helps.

[cykj]

What about Caribbean? Anyone with any experience do any expat flying down south?

The wife and I have bounced a kind of half serious dream back and forth about selling everything up here and moving to the Caribbean. I'll be sitting on my military pension, with ATPL(H) and CPL(A) in hand, and our kids grown up and finished school. It seems like a viable option. There are helo operators on many of the islands for sightseeing tours, and there's Caribbean Airlines out of Barbados and Trinidad, amongst other smaller airlines.

Has anyone flown down in the east Caribbean?

If an operator needs pilots but none are available locally, they may hire expats on a temporary basis. Otherwise, all jobs normally go to local pilots.

[JHR]

What about Caribbean? Anyone with any experience do any expat flying down south?

The wife and I have bounced a kind of half serious dream back and forth about selling everything up here and moving to the Caribbean. I'll be sitting on my military pension, with ATPL(H) and CPL(A) in hand, and our kids grown up and finished school. It seems like a viable option. There are helo operators on many of the islands for sightseeing tours, and there's Caribbean Airlines out of Barbados and Trinidad, amongst other smaller airlines.

Has anyone flown down in the east Caribbean?

If an operator needs pilots but none are available locally, they may hire expats on a temporary basis. Otherwise, all jobs normally go to local pilots.

Except in Canada

[Joe Blow Schmo]

What about Caribbean? Anyone with any experience do any expat flying down south?

The wife and I have bounced a kind of half serious dream back and forth about selling everything up here and moving to the Caribbean. I'll be sitting on my military pension, with ATPL(H) and CPL(A) in hand, and our kids grown up and finished school. It seems like a viable option. There are helo operators on many of the islands for sightseeing tours, and there's Caribbean Airlines out of Barbados and Trinidad, amongst other smaller airlines.

Has anyone flown down in the east Caribbean?

If you want to live in the Caribbean, get a job with AC with a YYZ base and commute. Make yourself a non-resident and bid for southbound flying (US/Caribbean). You'll only have a to pay tax for work you do in Canada. That will only be the first and last few minutes of your flights if they're all southbound out of YYZ.

[ant_321]

What about Caribbean? Anyone with any experience do any expat flying down south?

The wife and I have bounced a kind of half serious dream back and forth about selling everything up here and moving to the Caribbean. I'll be sitting on my military pension, with ATPL(H) and CPL(A) in hand, and our kids grown up and finished school. It seems like a viable option. There are helo operators on many of the islands for sightseeing tours, and there's Caribbean Airlines out of Barbados and Trinidad, amongst other smaller airlines.

Has anyone flown down in the east Caribbean?

If you want to live in the Caribbean, get a job with AC with a YYZ base and commute. Make yourself a non-resident and bid for southbound flying (US/Caribbean). You'll only have a to pay tax for work you do in Canada. That will only be the first and last few minutes of your flights if they're all southbound out of YYZ.

No true anymore unfortunately. You still won’t pay much tax but have to pay more than a few minutes each flight. You could bid a wide body and pickup some of those London-Asia flights and not pay any tax those days.

[aceemployment]

Are there any expat airlines still worth making a career out of anymore? It's frustating seeing the QOL decline in Canada by most metrics, but it seems like a lot of the "classic" expat airlines like Emirates, Cathay, etc are no longer what they once were. Reading this forum or pprune would lead one to believe that those airlines suck the life out of you and that most people eventually end up returning to Canada in the end. It's higher pay but you sacrifice a lot on QOL or your contract can be modified at the company's whim, etc. Is it worth leaving anymore or is it better to just get a seniority number at AC or Westjet, live with the high taxation/COL, and hope you never need to get a surgery or depend on any government services?

Here is an opportunity that may interest some:

ACE may have an opportunity to represent pilots for a long-term commuting contract for Nippon Cargo Airlines (NCA) in Narita, Japan. NCA operates the Boeing 747-8F in scheduled and charter cargo services all over the world, including Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe and North America.

This opening will be for a commuting assignment as First Officer on the B747-8F. Commuting gateways are Los Angeles (LAX) or Chicago (ORD).

Remuneration package is in USD.

Please visit the link below for details:

https://acempl.com/job-opportunities.php

Flying overseas is not for everyone. But for some, it has been a great opportunity.

We are not expecting any applications from captains or senior first officers. But for some up and coming FO’s that are looking at a 16 year upgrade at WJ or 10+ years anywhere else, then this assignment may be an option.

We recently had a 34 year old upgrade to captain on the B747-8. Something that is almost unheard of in Canada.

The 10+2 guaranteed days off is a contractual obligation. The Japanese have made a conscientious effort to improve the work / life balance. Lately it has been 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off, or 1 week on / 1 week off. You get a hotel room 1 night before duty and after duty, so no more “crash pads”. You also get per diems allocated before and after duty.

There are a handful of guys living in Canada that enjoy the expat life, without sacrifcing leaving "The Great White North".

We have a “seniority list” but that is just for vacation awards and upgrades. For days off, the schedulers are very accommodating. I can only remember a handful of times when they asked me to change my days off, and it was only by 1-2 days. Basically, you get what you bid for. I’ve never missed a birthday, anniversary, Canadian thanksgiving, since the whole time I have been here. This year, I worked 1 Xmas in the past 3 years.

We do have Xmas list and typically, we work 1 Xmas in 3-4 years, including junior AND senior pilots.

The salary is NET, and with the strong USD over the past decade, it has been a huge plus.

Here is the original post on this forum:

viewtopic.php?t=222197

[Canucklhead]

Are there any expat airlines still worth making a career out of anymore? It's frustating seeing the QOL decline in Canada by most metrics, but it seems like a lot of the "classic" expat airlines like Emirates, Cathay, etc are no longer what they once were. Reading this forum or pprune would lead one to believe that those airlines suck the life out of you and that most people eventually end up returning to Canada in the end. It's higher pay but you sacrifice a lot on QOL or your contract can be modified at the company's whim, etc. Is it worth leaving anymore or is it better to just get a seniority number at AC or Westjet, live with the high taxation/COL, and hope you never need to get a surgery or depend on any government services?

Here is an opportunity that may interest some:

ACE may have an opportunity to represent pilots for a long-term commuting contract for Nippon Cargo Airlines (NCA) in Narita, Japan. NCA operates the Boeing 747-8F in scheduled and charter cargo services all over the world, including Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe and North America.

This opening will be for a commuting assignment as First Officer on the B747-8F. Commuting gateways are Los Angeles (LAX) or Chicago (ORD).

Remuneration package is in USD.

Please visit the link below for details:

https://acempl.com/job-opportunities.php

Flying overseas is not for everyone. But for some, it has been a great opportunity.

We are not expecting any applications from captains or senior first officers. But for some up and coming FO’s that are looking at a 16 year upgrade at WJ or 10+ years anywhere else, then this assignment may be an option.

We recently had a 34 year old upgrade to captain on the B747-8. Something that is almost unheard of in Canada.

The 10+2 guaranteed days off is a contractual obligation. The Japanese have made a conscientious effort to improve the work / life balance. Lately it has been 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off, or 1 week on / 1 week off. You get a hotel room 1 night before duty and after duty, so no more “crash pads”. You also get per diems allocated before and after duty.

There are a handful of guys living in Canada that enjoy the expat life, without sacrifcing leaving "The Great White North".

We have a “seniority list” but that is just for vacation awards and upgrades. For days off, the schedulers are very accommodating. I can only remember a handful of times when they asked me to change my days off, and it was only by 1-2 days. Basically, you get what you bid for. I’ve never missed a birthday, anniversary, Canadian thanksgiving, since the whole time I have been here. This year, I worked 1 Xmas in the past 3 years.

We do have Xmas list and typically, we work 1 Xmas in 3-4 years, including junior AND senior pilots.

The salary is NET, and with the strong USD over the past decade, it has been a huge plus.

Here is the original post on this forum:

viewtopic.php?t=222197

I think you have pushed this various times on the site and it’s bordering on spam now.

[DanWEC]

Are there any expat airlines still worth making a career out of anymore? It's frustating seeing the QOL decline in Canada by most metrics, but it seems like a lot of the "classic" expat airlines like Emirates, Cathay, etc are no longer what they once were. Reading this forum or pprune would lead one to believe that those airlines suck the life out of you and that most people eventually end up returning to Canada in the end. It's higher pay but you sacrifice a lot on QOL or your contract can be modified at the company's whim, etc. Is it worth leaving anymore or is it better to just get a seniority number at AC or Westjet, live with the high taxation/COL, and hope you never need to get a surgery or depend on any government services?

Here is an opportunity that may interest some:

ACE may have an opportunity to represent pilots for a long-term commuting contract for Nippon Cargo Airlines (NCA) in Narita, Japan. NCA operates the Boeing 747-8F in scheduled and charter cargo services all over the world, including Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe and North America.

This opening will be for a commuting assignment as First Officer on the B747-8F. Commuting gateways are Los Angeles (LAX) or Chicago (ORD).

Remuneration package is in USD.

Please visit the link below for details:

https://acempl.com/job-opportunities.php

Flying overseas is not for everyone. But for some, it has been a great opportunity.

We are not expecting any applications from captains or senior first officers. But for some up and coming FO’s that are looking at a 16 year upgrade at WJ or 10+ years anywhere else, then this assignment may be an option.

We recently had a 34 year old upgrade to captain on the B747-8. Something that is almost unheard of in Canada.

The 10+2 guaranteed days off is a contractual obligation. The Japanese have made a conscientious effort to improve the work / life balance. Lately it has been 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off, or 1 week on / 1 week off. You get a hotel room 1 night before duty and after duty, so no more “crash pads”. You also get per diems allocated before and after duty.

There are a handful of guys living in Canada that enjoy the expat life, without sacrifcing leaving "The Great White North".

We have a “seniority list” but that is just for vacation awards and upgrades. For days off, the schedulers are very accommodating. I can only remember a handful of times when they asked me to change my days off, and it was only by 1-2 days. Basically, you get what you bid for. I’ve never missed a birthday, anniversary, Canadian thanksgiving, since the whole time I have been here. This year, I worked 1 Xmas in the past 3 years.

We do have Xmas list and typically, we work 1 Xmas in 3-4 years, including junior AND senior pilots.

The salary is NET, and with the strong USD over the past decade, it has been a huge plus.

Here is the original post on this forum:

viewtopic.php?t=222197

Why not post the compensation details of the commuting 747 position with Nippon?

[Eric Janson]

Have a look at the guy's website - especially his location.

Put the address into Google Maps.

Tells you all you need to know.

[cdnavater]

Have a look at the guy's website - especially his location.

Put the address into Google Maps.

Tells you all you need to know.

You might have to spell it out for me, what does being in Uruguay have to tell us?

[Arnie Pye]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:-

Do not give up a stable job in your home country to become an Expat

What constitutes a stable job these days? Is Transat Stable? If you listen to Flair's management Porter is a failed business. Hell, Flair's been going gills up for 20 years now according to the interweb experts.

Unless you work for one of our Duopoly carriers, you're probably not stable. Even at that, you've given up an awful lot for that stability.

[Pratt X 3]

What constitutes a stable job these days? Is Transat Stable? If you listen to Flair's management Porter is a failed business. Hell, Flair's been going gills up for 20 years now according to the interweb experts.

Unless you work for one of our Duopoly carriers, you're probably not stable. Even at that, you've given up an awful lot for that stability.

Oh shit, this should be good. What does Flair's management think Porter is failing at? Have they hired Realitychex to 'consult'? Are they jealous of being able to get some substantial investment capital that isn't on the shady side? Or are they just trying to poison the well to keep those on the fence from leaving?

[Arnie Pye]

Oh shit, this should be good. What does Flair's management think Porter is failing at? Have they hired Realitychex to 'consult'? Are they jealous of being able to get some substantial investment capital that isn't on the shady side? Or are they just trying to poison the well to keep those on the fence from leaving?

Everything. Wrong airplane for the mission; low loads, yields that won't support the low load factors; can't staff the expansion...

It's like listening to your girlfriend complain about your ex. Only, your ex just bought a house, is having 12 Lexus' delivered this year while your current girlfriend is making minimum wage and had her car repossessed a year or two ago and can't get a loan to buy a '98 Tercel.

I don't think many of the pilots are taking this as anything other than locker room style pep talk.

[Eric Janson]

Have a look at the guy's website - especially his location.

Put the address into Google Maps.

Tells you all you need to know.

You might have to spell it out for me, what does being in Uruguay have to tell us?

Look at the streetview images.

This is a guy with an internet connection and a mobile phone.

Real agencies have an address that shows an office.

[Pratt X 3]

Oh shit, this should be good. What does Flair's management think Porter is failing at? Have they hired Realitychex to 'consult'? Are they jealous of being able to get some substantial investment capital that isn't on the shady side? Or are they just trying to poison the well to keep those on the fence from leaving?

Everything. Wrong airplane for the mission; low loads, yields that won't support the low load factors; can't staff the expansion...

It's like listening to your girlfriend complain about your ex. Only, your ex just bought a house, is having 12 Lexus' delivered this year while your current girlfriend is making minimum wage and had her car repossessed a year or two ago and can't get a loan to buy a '98 Tercel.

I don't think many of the pilots are taking this as anything other than locker room style pep talk.

That does sound like Realtychex’s drivel. Maybe he is bringing some of his whales to help float Flair in order to put Porter out of business and he can finally be right.

I can never figure out why management spends so much time putting down the competition when they should really be looking after their own house.

[cdnavater]

Have a look at the guy's website - especially his location.

Put the address into Google Maps.

Tells you all you need to know.

You might have to spell it out for me, what does being in Uruguay have to tell us?

Look at the streetview images.

This is a guy with an internet connection and a mobile phone.

Real agencies have an address that shows an office.

Ah, got it, I flagged the posts as spam and they are still coming in every forum, apparently the mods don’t care.