contract search tool

[Exactive22]

Hi all,
I wanted to put something out here that I found useful for pilots. Its a tool to search information within collective agreements like AC's and it comes with a chatgtp like chatbot to answer questions.
Here the link: https://airlinecontract.com/

Cheers

[flying4dollars]

This is neat!! Thanks!

[Montroyal]

Hi all,
I wanted to put something out here that I found useful for pilots. Its a tool to search information within collective agreements like AC's and it comes with a chatgtp like chatbot to answer questions.
Here the link: https://airlinecontract.com/

Cheers

I like how the Delta contract is in there

Maybe Altiplano can take a look at the section about Delta's bonus payout and then tell us all how that pilot group isn't focused. They need to give up their extra 10% like Air Canada pilots

[cdnavater]

Hi all,
I wanted to put something out here that I found useful for pilots. Its a tool to search information within collective agreements like AC's and it comes with a chatgtp like chatbot to answer questions.
Here the link: https://airlinecontract.com/

Cheers

I like how the Delta contract is in there

Maybe Altiplano can take a look at the section about Delta's bonus payout and then tell us all how that pilot group isn't focused. They need to give up their extra 10% like Air Canada pilots

How many bargaining cycles, answer that simple question!
AC pilots missed a few rounds of bargaining due to the 10 year deal, no single airline got everything in one round of bargaining!

[CPU2000]

Hi all,
I wanted to put something out here that I found useful for pilots. Its a tool to search information within collective agreements like AC's and it comes with a chatgtp like chatbot to answer questions.
Here the link: https://airlinecontract.com/

Cheers

I like how the Delta contract is in there

Maybe Altiplano can take a look at the section about Delta's bonus payout and then tell us all how that pilot group isn't focused. They need to give up their extra 10% like Air Canada pilots

How many bargaining cycles, answer that simple question!
AC pilots missed a few rounds of bargaining due to the 10 year deal, no single airline got everything in one round of bargaining!

So when did Delta / United pilots or whoever give up their profit share bonus?

Answer...never

Who was the first airline to give it up at the first opportunity?

Answer...Air Canada pilots

[Canadianpilot2024]

This would be a great feature for other AC documents like the FOM, FAM, AOM, etc. Heck, integrate it into aeronet as well.

[altiplano]

Hi all,
I wanted to put something out here that I found useful for pilots. Its a tool to search information within collective agreements like AC's and it comes with a chatgtp like chatbot to answer questions.
Here the link: https://airlinecontract.com/

Cheers

I like how the Delta contract is in there

Maybe Altiplano can take a look at the section about Delta's bonus payout and then tell us all how that pilot group isn't focused. They need to give up their extra 10% like Air Canada pilots

What are you talking about? Your deluded.

[Montroyal]

I'd rather see ALPA focus on straight salary gains going forward. I'm happier with money in the bank every month.

You want ALPA focused on giving out profit sharing concessions. Apparently you don't like Delta's contract or their 10% bonus they just got.

Air Canada pilots just gave up $75 million. It is brutal.

[Exactive22]

This would be a great feature for other AC documents like the FOM, FAM, AOM, etc. Heck, integrate it into aeronet as well.

Yes I am working on exactly that! However it would need someone from the company to back it up or support it and I am not sure who that would be.

I'd be happy to improve the app, so any feedback through the airlinecontract.com site is much appreciated!

[cdnavater]

I like how the Delta contract is in there

Maybe Altiplano can take a look at the section about Delta's bonus payout and then tell us all how that pilot group isn't focused. They need to give up their extra 10% like Air Canada pilots

How many bargaining cycles, answer that simple question!
AC pilots missed a few rounds of bargaining due to the 10 year deal, no single airline got everything in one round of bargaining!

So when did Delta / United pilots or whoever give up their profit share bonus?

Answer...never

Who was the first airline to give it up at the first opportunity?

Answer...Air Canada pilots

So, in 2002 when their pensions went with the bankruptcy proceedings, you think they had profit sharing for the following years, they lost billions, BILLIONS of pension, since the. They have made their way back but still have many pilots who did not and will not make up for the loses in their pension.
You should use different examples if you want to make a case but I’m pretty certain all the US majors got fucked in the early 2000s

[altiplano]

I'd rather see ALPA focus on straight salary gains going forward. I'm happier with money in the bank every month.

You want ALPA focused on giving out profit sharing concessions. Apparently you don't like Delta's contract or their 10% bonus they just got.

Air Canada pilots just gave up $75 million. It is brutal.

I said no such thing as the way you characterize it.

Out of context quote from a different discussion and you really have a very poor understanding of it all.

If I could have 10K in guaranteed salary versus maybe 10K in a capped variable profit share I will take the guaranteed 10K every time.

Wouldn't you?

That salary is pensionable, is what premiums and overrides are based off and compounds with future bargaining gains. And external factors, poor executive decision making, and shady accounting practices don't have an affect on it

In my time at AC it's been more years with no profit share than with profit share so I'm not in a hurry to trade away any opportunity at more pay and better work conditions and instead take a bet on this AC executive team.

The time to get profit share back is in the next down turn, after we can't get another nickel out of them, that's when you reintroduce it because it's a low cost/ no cost item at that time. I don't think that's in the next round, but it may be in the one following. This next round I want more hard pay and better scheduling among other things, I wouldn't balk at it, but profit share doesn't crack the top 10 I would rather see deep gains in.

[noreasterYHZ]

I'd rather see ALPA focus on straight salary gains going forward. I'm happier with money in the bank every month.

You want ALPA focused on giving out profit sharing concessions. Apparently you don't like Delta's contract or their 10% bonus they just got.

Air Canada pilots just gave up $75 million. It is brutal.

I said no such thing as the way you characterize it.

Out of context quote from a different discussion and you really have a very poor understanding of it all.

If I could have 10K in guaranteed salary versus maybe 10K in a capped variable profit share I will take the guaranteed 10K every time.

Wouldn't you?

That salary is pensionable, is what premiums and overrides are based off and compounds with future bargaining gains. And external factors, poor executive decision making, and shady accounting practices don't have an affect on it

In my time at AC it's been more years with no profit share than with profit share so I'm not in a hurry to trade away any opportunity at more pay and better work conditions and instead take a bet on this AC executive team.

The time to get profit share back is in the next down turn, after we can't get another nickel out of them, that's when you reintroduce it because it's a low cost/ no cost item at that time. I don't think that's in the next round, but it may be in the one following. This next round I want more hard pay and better scheduling among other things, I wouldn't balk at it, but profit share doesn't crack the top 10 I would rather see deep gains in.

You do realize the the profit share would equal more pay right? Right??

Doh

[FelixGustof]

I don't understand...Air Canada pilots gave up their bonus but still have way worse pay & quality of life?

Why would they do that?

Maybe you need smarter negotiators in the room.

[PostmasterGeneral]

You want ALPA focused on giving out profit sharing concessions. Apparently you don't like Delta's contract or their 10% bonus they just got.

Air Canada pilots just gave up $75 million. It is brutal.

I said no such thing as the way you characterize it.

Out of context quote from a different discussion and you really have a very poor understanding of it all.

If I could have 10K in guaranteed salary versus maybe 10K in a capped variable profit share I will take the guaranteed 10K every time.

Wouldn't you?

That salary is pensionable, is what premiums and overrides are based off and compounds with future bargaining gains. And external factors, poor executive decision making, and shady accounting practices don't have an affect on it

In my time at AC it's been more years with no profit share than with profit share so I'm not in a hurry to trade away any opportunity at more pay and better work conditions and instead take a bet on this AC executive team.

The time to get profit share back is in the next down turn, after we can't get another nickel out of them, that's when you reintroduce it because it's a low cost/ no cost item at that time. I don't think that's in the next round, but it may be in the one following. This next round I want more hard pay and better scheduling among other things, I wouldn't balk at it, but profit share doesn't crack the top 10 I would rather see deep gains in.

You do realize the the profit share would equal more pay right? Right??

Doh

No, what he's trying to say is that guaranteed income is way better than a "profit share" that's entirely controlled and stipulated by the company. There were WAY more years at AC where profit share wasn't given out, vs when it was. I'd much rather have the guaranteed pay. At least then it goes towards your pension.

[altiplano]

You want ALPA focused on giving out profit sharing concessions. Apparently you don't like Delta's contract or their 10% bonus they just got.

Air Canada pilots just gave up $75 million. It is brutal.

I said no such thing as the way you characterize it.

Out of context quote from a different discussion and you really have a very poor understanding of it all.

If I could have 10K in guaranteed salary versus maybe 10K in a capped variable profit share I will take the guaranteed 10K every time.

Wouldn't you?

That salary is pensionable, is what premiums and overrides are based off and compounds with future bargaining gains. And external factors, poor executive decision making, and shady accounting practices don't have an affect on it

In my time at AC it's been more years with no profit share than with profit share so I'm not in a hurry to trade away any opportunity at more pay and better work conditions and instead take a bet on this AC executive team.

The time to get profit share back is in the next down turn, after we can't get another nickel out of them, that's when you reintroduce it because it's a low cost/ no cost item at that time. I don't think that's in the next round, but it may be in the one following. This next round I want more hard pay and better scheduling among other things, I wouldn't balk at it, but profit share doesn't crack the top 10 I would rather see deep gains in.

You do realize the the profit share would equal more pay right? Right??

Doh

Fück... you guys are THICK.

[FelixGustof]

What I don't understand is how every other airline pilot group got similar large raises but didn't have to give up their profit share

Why did Air Canada pilots give the bonus up unlike literally every other group?

[Chateau]

If you're on the DB pension like me, the pay raises won't do anything for anyone who retires as a skipper on any widebody because the limit will still be the MPUs.

For the CWIPP folks, the bonus money could have been handy if you found yourself on a Leave of Absence and needed to buy back service for your pension. Oops. C'est dommage.

[altiplano]

What I don't understand is how every other airline pilot group got similar large raises but didn't have to give up their profit share

Why did Air Canada pilots give the bonus up unlike literally every other group?

But that's not the point. That's in the past. My comments are related to going forward.

The point is that going forward, guaranteed cash money gains is my preference over a capped variable payment that depends on executive performance and accounting

If you're on the DB pension like me, the pay raises won't do anything for anyone who retires as a skipper on any widebody because the limit will still be the MPUs.

For the CWIPP folks, the bonus money could have been handy if you found yourself on a Leave of Absence and needed to buy back service for your pension. Oops. C'est dommage.

Of course pay raises make a difference. It's more money into your account. More into your RCA, is somewhat protection for you if the company winds up. That also equals more money if you don't get the best 5 above YMPE or things change and you walk before normal retirement age.

Higher pay pushes our argument for raising DB MPUs, pensions are meant to replicate a % of earnings. When our wages go up it bolsters an associated raise for MPUs.

Of course for CWIPP guys salary gains are immediate pension gains. They're directly linked.

Am I really reading this "the pay raises won't do anything for anyone" - HELL YEAH THEY WILL.

I'll take pay me now, not maybe pay me later as my priority.

[Canadianpilot2024]

Giving up profit sharing for pay raises is an improvement I’d agree. It’s just shifting money around imo, and I would argue it’s just contract restructuring vs anything close to a wcc or 2.1 billion on contract gains or however they worded it.

If our biggest win was pay, we got bamboozled. Hard to defend this deal UNLESS you’re close to retirement or were one of the covid layoffs.

What happened to this MOAB?

And yes small gains on other stuff too, but I’d argue we aren’t any better than westjet or flairs deals and in some cases worse depending on what metric you’re looking at.

Westjets deal expires Dec 31 2026… hopefully we don’t settle for less again in 2027.

[altiplano]

Giving up profit sharing for pay raises is an improvement I’d agree. It’s just shifting money around imo, and I would argue it’s just contract restructuring vs anything close to a wcc or 2.1 billion on contract gains or however they worded it.

If our biggest win was pay, we got bamboozled. Hard to defend this deal UNLESS you’re close to retirement or were one of the covid layoffs.

What happened to this MOAB?

And yes small gains on other stuff too, but I’d argue we aren’t any better than westjet or flairs deals and in some cases worse depending on what metric you’re looking at.

Westjets deal expires Dec 31 2026… hopefully we don’t settle for less again in 2027.

Again, looking backwards. Yeah, part of that increase was a trade. I believe we should have seen that increase without a trade. But that's done.

But my comments are related to GOING FORWARD.

Here's an example, what would you rather have?
- 6% guaranteed pay raise that compounds with other negotiated raises, increases your premiums and overrides, and is pensionable
- variable payout capped at 8% that's conditional on AC Executive performance and accounting, and you can count on one hand the number of times it's paid out at that level ever

I want #1 and lifestyle over #2 every time.

If we already had #2 and AC came to me offering a trade for my conditional, variable compensation for a commiserate fixed compensation increase I would take that too.

Anyone that wouldn't is a fool.

[GeoffPilot]

Air Canada pilots have the worst scheduling & reserve rules in the industry hands down.

This agreement was nearly entirely about the pay. If you're not happy about that, then there isn't much there. At least we get our schedules earlier now I guess

[flying4dollars]

This thread is about a very handy search tool. Let's thank the creator and move on. Going on and on about the contract in this thread is doing what exactly? There's already about 10 threads bashing AC pilots and the contract, I'm sure we don't need an 11th. Are you guys really that bored?