Summer Ground School

[sportingrifle]

Instead of trying to argue about how many hours is a reasonable requirement, why don’t we back up and ask what skill set an ATPL candidate should have? That will in turn give us a pretty good rough idea of the hours and type of experience required. As a TRI on a very large aircraft, I have seen a sesmic shift in the abilities of the people I work with over the last decade. Many are incredibly good but the common denominator with them is a work ethic and experience.

In my opinion, the holder of an ATPL should have the following skillsets:

Technical knowledge. Attending the 3 day ATPL workshop that embeds the 800 possible exam questions into your short term memory doesn’t teach you shit. Gets you 90% on the exam but you are still woefully short of theoretical knowledge that you will need to be a Captain. Buy a copy of “Handling The Big Jets” and read it, paying particular attention to the sections on T/O and landing performance and high altitude aerodynamics.

Hands and feet. Despite what CAE claim, simulatord don’t cut it. That is why serious cadet programs do a lot of training in expensive real airplanes as well as simulators. You should be able to land in a crosswind on a narrow or contaminated runway, on the centerline, in the touchdown zone, 100% of the time without thinking about it. Because when you are doing it in anger on a dark night you will have other things that you need to think about. Time spent in a Navajo on a gravel strip or Beaver is not wasted for a acquiring these skills. Time in a 172 on a 6000’ runway with flight school wind limits - not so much.

Attitude. You should be curious and committed to life long learning. People who continually struggle in sims years into a job don’t get this.

Judgement. This requires experience. Anybody can cancel a flight when something isn’t legal. Cancelling the flight because something doesn’t feel right - too many things stacking up against you - something unusual not written in a company manual - is harder. Last week ATC told me I could expect a hold if I wanted a longer runway. I had boarded extra fuel knowing this was a possibility and toughed out the hold even though the short runway was (barely) legal and the hold was an expensive inconvenience. The confidence to make those decisions comes from experience. Experience making decisions as PIC. Doesn’t matter if it is a Beaver or King Air. PICUS? What a joke. You are either making the decisions or you are not. Part of making decisions is living with the consequences, something that doesn’t happen if you are being baby sat.

And the biggest? Knowing how to run a flight deck. Professionally but relaxed. Encouraging input but earning respect. Allowing less experienced crew members to learn by letting them make their own (small) mistakes, but not letting their learning moments become threats. Displaying humility when owning your own mistakes while learning from them. Big picture thinking that avoids turning minor issues into major distractions. Workload management. Spreading it out and sharing it. And building a team - rampies, flight attendants, maintenance. Nothing moves without them. And looking out for the interests of your passengers and your employer. You get that skill from sitting in multi-crew aircraft, watching the good and (sometimes) the bad. CRM classes only go so far.

So how much experience does it take to get to this point? I don’t know and it depends wildly on the individual. But I do know that a college with exam prep seminars, one employer with PICUS, and 1500 hours isn’t even close. Our profession deserves better.

Inteterestingly enough, The College of Professional Pilots of Canada has more or less the exact opposite opinion to all of the above. Which is why I am no longer a member, I refuse to participate in the continued dumbing down of our proffession.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Instead of trying to argue about how many hours is a reasonable requirement, why don’t we back up and ask what skill set an ATPL candidate should have? That will in turn give us a pretty good rough idea of the hours and type of experience required. As a TRI on a very large aircraft, I have seen a sesmic shift in the abilities of the people I work with over the last decade. Many are incredibly good but the common denominator with them is a work ethic and experience.

In my opinion, the holder of an ATPL should have the following skillsets:

Technical knowledge. Attending the 3 day ATPL workshop that embeds the 800 possible exam questions into your short term memory doesn’t teach you shit. Gets you 90% on the exam but you are still woefully short of theoretical knowledge that you will need to be a Captain. Buy a copy of “Handling The Big Jets” and read it, paying particular attention to the sections on T/O and landing performance and high altitude aerodynamics.

Hands and feet. Despite what CAE claim, simulatord don’t cut it. That is why serious cadet programs do a lot of training in expensive real airplanes as well as simulators. You should be able to land in a crosswind on a narrow or contaminated runway, on the centerline, in the touchdown zone, 100% of the time without thinking about it. Because when you are doing it in anger on a dark night you will have other things that you need to think about. Time spent in a Navajo on a gravel strip or Beaver is not wasted for a acquiring these skills. Time in a 172 on a 6000’ runway with flight school wind limits - not so much.

Attitude. You should be curious and committed to life long learning. People who continually struggle in sims years into a job don’t get this.

Judgement. This requires experience. Anybody can cancel a flight when something isn’t legal. Cancelling the flight because something doesn’t feel right - too many things stacking up against you - something unusual not written in a company manual - is harder. Last week ATC told me I could expect a hold if I wanted a longer runway. I had boarded extra fuel knowing this was a possibility and toughed out the hold even though the short runway was (barely) legal and the hold was an expensive inconvenience. The confidence to make those decisions comes from experience. Experience making decisions as PIC. Doesn’t matter if it is a Beaver or King Air. PICUS? What a joke. You are either making the decisions or you are not. Part of making decisions is living with the consequences, something that doesn’t happen if you are being baby sat.

And the biggest? Knowing how to run a flight deck. Professionally but relaxed. Encouraging input but earning respect. Allowing less experienced crew members to learn by letting them make their own (small) mistakes, but not letting their learning moments become threats. Displaying humility when owning your own mistakes while learning from them. Big picture thinking that avoids turning minor issues into major distractions. Workload management. Spreading it out and sharing it. And building a team - rampies, flight attendants, maintenance. Nothing moves without them. And looking out for the interests of your passengers and your employer. You get that skill from sitting in multi-crew aircraft, watching the good and (sometimes) the bad. CRM classes only go so far.

So how much experience does it take to get to this point? I don’t know and it depends wildly on the individual. But I do know that a college with exam prep seminars, one employer with PICUS, and 1500 hours isn’t even close. Our profession deserves better.

Inteterestingly enough, The College of Professional Pilots of Canada has more or less the exact opposite opinion to all of the above. Which is why I am no longer a member, I refuse to participate in the continued dumbing down of our proffession.

I wholeheartedly concur with you. There’s a gate keeper mentorship for your fellow brethren that I too take great care to ponder, reconsider and am constantly thinking about how I can be better.

All well said Sportingrifle!

All the best,

TPC

[cdnavater]

Absolutely sportingrifle, my opinion on hours is based on the difficulty training the lower time pilots, the things I see that I wouldn’t see if they had more of the stuff you mentioned and as I mentioned there is no magic number, mostly hours and type of experience combination but also someone who actually studies. I really dread those days where I show up prepared and the candidates don’t!
The exams for the ATPL need to be more robust, the hours required needs to go back to the way it was, at the very minimum, FO time only counting for half. There should be no scenario where you can get your ATPL flying a 172 only or even instructing on a Seminole or alike and much more importantly, the upgrade training needs to be much more robust, more like what AC does, I respect their upgrade program.
We SHOULD be making the barrier to entry harder, if any country can support the 1500 hours rule to work for a 705, it’s Canada! We have a huge 703/704 industry that can make pilots much better than what we have now!
I’m very thankful I will be retired in less than 10 years, I’m tired and I only see it getting worse, maybe Trump’s trade war will set the shortage back a little.

[Me262]

I have only seen one on the RJ and this candidate was confident and more importantly competent, he knew his stuff cold and had experience flying out east for a Q operator. All his experience was in weather and operational conditions known for the East coast so he’s seen some shit. He was one of the DEC who was successful, I believe only two of 10 made it through, a couple are still right seat over a year later.
I’ve had upgrade candidates not even know how to properly turn on the weather radar, ffs, how do you bid the upgrade without that knowledge and then a couple others who could turn it on but have no idea how to use it properly. You should have at least two summers of weather radar usage under your belt before even thinking about the upgrade.
If you are thinking about upgrading, you should be studying the COM as that is a big part of being a Captain, knowing the COM is huge and many come through with basic stuff and here I am trying to train them on months worth of study in a week, not usually doable.
I believe some more have been successful on the Q but I admit I don’t know those numbers

So what's the magic number, in your opinion, to go left seat? 2000? 3000? I'm asking out of pure curiosity

You can definitely tell the difference between 1500 and 3000 hours, the confidence and actual flying are much more refined but that is certainly not guaranteed.
I would say 2000 with 1000 on type and 3000 hours coming from medevac or a metro are similar in the training curve but a 3000 float pilot is not even comparable to a 1000 pilot except for hands and feet but all other aspects tend to be difficult to train, there is something to be said for operating in the IFR environment and two crew vs low level. 172 instructors and higher time float pilots are very similar in the training curve.
The truth is, there is no one size fits all but definitely for upgrades, in a perfect world I would like to see 2000 with 1000 on type, 2500 with 750 or 3000 with 500, probably the minimum the matrix should be.

You can tell the difference because most 1500hrs that you get to train probably have their ATPL instructing while the 3000hrs have the extra 1500 in 705. Have a 1500hrs with 1300hrs in 705 and I bet they will do just as good similar to 90%+ flying in EASA airspace. I for one I'm almost certain all cygnets hired in the CRJ would be very solid to upgrade after 1300hrs on the CRJ, except they can't because dinosaur TC still wants them to have an extra 150hrs doing 25NM "circuits" in a C150

[Canoehead]

I for one I'm almost certain all cygnets hired in the CRJ would be very solid to upgrade after 1300hrs on the CRJ

I'm absolutely certain they won't be. And I have faith in the Cygnet program.

[swervin]

February 17 GS. 19 New Hires.

[truedude]

February 17 GS. 19 New Hires.

Today's Financials make it clear that Jazz is dying. No clear vision or path forward.

[rudder]

February 17 GS. 19 New Hires.

Today's Financials make it clear that Jazz is dying. No clear vision or path forward.

Jazz is simply reverting to what it was always going to be. When you have a contract with AC that contains the word ‘minimum’ treat it as gospel. The CPA said ‘minimum’ 80 aircraft after 2025 and voila - now it has been confirmed.

Jazz is struggling to fully staff 80 fully utilized aircraft (that equates to approximately 960 line pilots).

Of concern should be anybody that will not be 65 prior to the end of 2035 (the end of the current CPA term). It does happen that CPA’s do not get renewed - just look at what is happening in the US. Also concerning is anybody that will be drawing ongoing payments from the DB Pension Plan after 2035. If Jazz ever ceases to exist (or does not get absorbed) then the plan will be looking at a mandatory windup. Food for thought for those making commuted value vs normal form decisions.

80 aircraft and three fleet types. Three sets of spares. Three sets of manuals. Three groups of type specific technical support. That cannot be efficient. Also, not a single word about fleet renewal or a single replacement aircraft order with many airframes now reaching the 20 year mark.

I hope that the jobs that last until 2035 (and beyond?) are good jobs. But Jazz will have a lot of infrastructure piled on top of just 80 aircraft. AC will likely be looking at how to reduce overhead in its Express operations.

Is Jazz still a ‘career’ airline? Only time will tell.

[Inverted2]

If Jazz makes it to 2035 I'll be happy. I will be close to 60 and I plan to leave around 60 anyway. I am wondering if they will keep 4 Q400 bases with only 25 aircraft to share. 30 RJ across 4 bases is pushing it as well.

RJ and Q400 are long out of production so if they do order any newer aircraft it will have to be E175s.

[rudder]

If Jazz makes it to 2035 I'll be happy. I will be close to 60 and I plan to leave around 60 anyway. I am wondering if they will keep 4 Q400 bases with only 25 aircraft to share. 30 RJ across 4 bases is pushing it as well.

RJ and Q400 are long out of production so if they do order any newer aircraft it will have to be E175s.

These are issues that should have been dealt with a long time ago. There should probably only be 2 Jazz Q400 crew bases and 2 or 3 CRJ crew bases. It will be interesting to see how hard AC pushes for lower overhead in the CHR CPA. It will also be interesting to see how Jazz justifies the infrastructure overhead burden associated with a dwindling operational employee population. Less airplanes. Less flights. Less pilots. Less FA’s. Less MTC. Less dispatchers. Less crew schedulers. Same administrative overhead (YHZ).

If there is any meaningful future beyond 2035 to be had at Jazz in conjunction with AC, it would require a factory order for 50-60 E175’s. New/used might also work but the aging first gen 175’s are not the answer. And next up is whether Jazz should even remain in the Q400 business. Or at least limit the Jazz Express Q400 operation to one geographic region (probably west).

WJ has all but exterminated its in-house regional. At AC, the commercial trend is certainly away from Express gauge and evolving to small mainline gauge in primary and secondary North American city pairs. Canadian secondary cities are also seeing reduced Express frequency. This is not a trend that is likely to be reversed.

Planning in the airline business is an exercise that runs years in advance. The acknowledgement that the Jazz operated Express fleet will in fact be reduced to the CPA minimum is evidence that AC has a plan at Express, at least thru 2026. But there are fins at Jazz that will be 30 years old if operated until 2035. That would seem optimistic if not unique as it applies to regional gauge aircraft.

[cdnavater]

If Jazz makes it to 2035 I'll be happy. I will be close to 60 and I plan to leave around 60 anyway. I am wondering if they will keep 4 Q400 bases with only 25 aircraft to share. 30 RJ across 4 bases is pushing it as well.

RJ and Q400 are long out of production so if they do order any newer aircraft it will have to be E175s.

We caught a lot of flack for the 10 year extension bringing us to 2035, based on the above opinion from rudder, I don’t regret it! It was the general consensus that without it, the plan was to replace us at the earliest convenience!
2033 is the year I plan on retiring, sooner if able but that was the latest was 2035, there is always the risk AC buys out the agreement early but I believe there is still a federal law saying we have the right to follow the work. So, in that case they couldn’t cancel our contract to give another contract, they could bring the work in house and I’m not sure how that would apply, if at all.
I think without a plan to increase YYC RJ flying and most certainly head start flights, the base days are numbered.
That being said, the bases are close enough together geographically to keep them separate or merge them, have one western and one eastern base, time will tell. Could have a YVR RJ base and YYC Q base out west, east is a different beast with the political noise of closing any YUL base, so that may just be left alone.

[Inverted2]

If Jazz makes it to 2035 I'll be happy. I will be close to 60 and I plan to leave around 60 anyway. I am wondering if they will keep 4 Q400 bases with only 25 aircraft to share. 30 RJ across 4 bases is pushing it as well.

RJ and Q400 are long out of production so if they do order any newer aircraft it will have to be E175s.

We caught a lot of flack for the 10 year extension bringing us to 2035, based on the above opinion from rudder, I don’t regret it! It was the general consensus that without it, the plan was to replace us at the earliest convenience!
2033 is the year I plan on retiring, sooner if able but that was the latest was 2035, there is always the risk AC buys out the agreement early but I believe there is still a federal law saying we have the right to follow the work. So, in that case they couldn’t cancel our contract to give another contract, they could bring the work in house and I’m not sure how that would apply, if at all.
I think without a plan to increase YYC RJ flying and most certainly head start flights, the base days are numbered.
That being said, the bases are close enough together geographically to keep them separate or merge them, have one western and one eastern base, time will tell. Could have a YVR RJ base and YYC Q base out west, east is a different beast with the political noise of closing any YUL base, so that may just be left alone.

Just because it’s written on paper doesn’t mean AC will follow it. Think of the 60% flow through or the sole CPA provider (PAL) or the unfair labour practice that is still ongoing. They could cancel it all in 2 years and there’s nothing we could do about it. That’s how AC works.

[cdnavater]

If Jazz makes it to 2035 I'll be happy. I will be close to 60 and I plan to leave around 60 anyway. I am wondering if they will keep 4 Q400 bases with only 25 aircraft to share. 30 RJ across 4 bases is pushing it as well.

RJ and Q400 are long out of production so if they do order any newer aircraft it will have to be E175s.

We caught a lot of flack for the 10 year extension bringing us to 2035, based on the above opinion from rudder, I don’t regret it! It was the general consensus that without it, the plan was to replace us at the earliest convenience!
2033 is the year I plan on retiring, sooner if able but that was the latest was 2035, there is always the risk AC buys out the agreement early but I believe there is still a federal law saying we have the right to follow the work. So, in that case they couldn’t cancel our contract to give another contract, they could bring the work in house and I’m not sure how that would apply, if at all.
I think without a plan to increase YYC RJ flying and most certainly head start flights, the base days are numbered.
That being said, the bases are close enough together geographically to keep them separate or merge them, have one western and one eastern base, time will tell. Could have a YVR RJ base and YYC Q base out west, east is a different beast with the political noise of closing any YUL base, so that may just be left alone.

Just because it’s written on paper doesn’t mean AC will follow it. Think of the 60% flow through or the sole CPA provider (PAL) or the unfair labour practice that is still ongoing. They could cancel it all in 2 years and there’s nothing we could do about it. That’s how AC works.

Of course, I have to imagine there would be a massive buy out penalty and again, they could not do this and launch another regional airline, labour has a right to follow the work, the only thing the liberals did that I like

[stolrider]

Realistically with the A220 base opening in YVR I forsee the CRJ bases out west closing or perhaps keeping a small base in YYC to keep the Senior contingent happy until they retire. YVR will likely go all Q400, Q400 in YYC will close and within 5-10 years Jazz will be an all Q400 operator with bases in YVR/YYZ/YUL.

The A220 is going to likely take over all the north south Jazz flying out of YVR, including YXY, SAN, SJC, DFW etc.

[truedude]

Realistically with the A220 base opening in YVR I forsee the CRJ bases out west closing or perhaps keeping a small base in YYC to keep the Senior contingent happy until they retire. YVR will likely go all Q400, Q400 in YYC will close and within 5-10 years Jazz will be an all Q400 operator with bases in YVR/YYZ/YUL.

The A220 is going to likely take over all the north south Jazz flying out of YVR, including YXY, SAN, SJC, DFW etc.

Heard this before... been hearing it for 30 years.

[rudder]

Realistically with the A220 base opening in YVR I forsee the CRJ bases out west closing or perhaps keeping a small base in YYC to keep the Senior contingent happy until they retire. YVR will likely go all Q400, Q400 in YYC will close and within 5-10 years Jazz will be an all Q400 operator with bases in YVR/YYZ/YUL.

The A220 is going to likely take over all the north south Jazz flying out of YVR, including YXY, SAN, SJC, DFW etc.

Heard this before... been hearing it for 30 years.

AC is opening a YVR 220 base. That is a fact. AC has added many 220 orders. That is a fact. In fact, the 220 will be the single largest NB fleet type once all orders are delivered. The 220 is seen as AC’s main tool in reducing frequency and increasing gauge on previously operated Express city pairs.

When the 2026 CRJ fleet reduction transpires (5 leased aircraft), it is most likely to manifest in the west. The closure of the YYC CRJ base - which is long overdue - is almost inevitable. As far as consolidating the western Q400 bases, that depends on the city pairs, frequencies, and originating flights (which affects hotels/layover expense in YYC/YVR). I wouldn’t be surprised to see an attempt to avoid a net base staffing reduction by adding sufficient YYC Q400 positions. However, that could prove a challenge as Jazz is exiting 14 Q400’s by the end of 2026. Bottom line - YYC is an at risk base.

Where Jazz is headed in the next 12-24 months was predicted and is now confirmed via public financial reports. Details about bases, routes, and frequencies will flow from the fleet reductions as they manifest and AC commercial makes schedule and route decisions. Jazz at this point will be entirely responsive. The JAZ MEC may push back, but ultimately these decisions are not restricted by any provisions of the CBA.

[truedude]

Realistically with the A220 base opening in YVR I forsee the CRJ bases out west closing or perhaps keeping a small base in YYC to keep the Senior contingent happy until they retire. YVR will likely go all Q400, Q400 in YYC will close and within 5-10 years Jazz will be an all Q400 operator with bases in YVR/YYZ/YUL.

The A220 is going to likely take over all the north south Jazz flying out of YVR, including YXY, SAN, SJC, DFW etc.

Heard this before... been hearing it for 30 years.

AC is opening a YVR 220 base. That is a fact. AC has added many 220 orders. That is a fact. In fact, the 220 will be the single largest NB fleet type once all orders are delivered. The 220 is seen as AC’s main tool in reducing frequency and increasing gauge on previously operated Express city pairs.

When the 2026 CRJ fleet reduction transpires (5 leased aircraft), it is most likely to manifest in the west. The closure of the YYC CRJ base - which is long overdue - is almost inevitable. As far as consolidating the western Q400 bases, that depends on the city pairs, frequencies, and originating flights (which affects hotels/layover expense in YYC/YVR). I wouldn’t be surprised to see an attempt to avoid a net base staffing reduction by adding sufficient YYC Q400 positions. However, that could prove a challenge as Jazz is exiting 14 Q400’s by the end of 2026. Bottom line - YYC is an at risk base.

Where Jazz is headed in the next 12-24 months was predicted and is now confirmed via public financial reports. Details about bases, routes, and frequencies will flow from the fleet reductions as they manifest and AC commercial makes schedule and route decisions. Jazz at this point will be entirely responsive. The JAZ MEC may push back, but ultimately these decisions are not restricted by any provisions of the CBA.

There is still a lot of flying not currently being done that used to be done out west. 3x a day YYC to YWG. I think it is 1 now. 3x yyc to ylw. 1 a day. 3x yyc to yka, currently zero. 3x a day from YYC to YYJ, currently 1 or zero. YYC to YCD, zero. YYC PDX, used to be 2x, now zero. YYC to YQR and YXE. There is a lot of flying the regional fleet can be doing even if the 220s take a lot of the US flying from YVR. Used to be 8x from YVR to YLW, now 6 or 5 someday. They have nearly abandoned their route out west. And Porter keeps creeping in.

Unless AC never plans to rebuild it's western route network, which seems incredibly short sighted, there is lots for everyone to do.

[rudder]

There is still a lot of flying not currently being done that used to be done out west. 3x a day YYC to YWG. I think it is 1 now. 3x yyc to ylw. 1 a day. 3x yyc to yka, currently zero. 3x a day from YYC to YYJ, currently 1 or zero. YYC to YCD, zero. YYC PDX, used to be 2x, now zero. YYC to YQR and YXE. There is a lot of flying the regional fleet can be doing even if the 220s take a lot of the US flying from YVR. Used to be 8x from YVR to YLW, now 6 or 5 someday. They have nearly abandoned their route out west. And Porter keeps creeping in.

Unless AC never plans to rebuild it's western route network, which seems incredibly short sighted, there is lots for everyone to do.

AC commercial has clearly taken a decision about YYC.

WJ retrenched to YYC. That means more presence, more seats - and accordingly - lower yields if a competitive response has more seats in the market than there is demand.

AC calls the shots. Jazz simply does as it is told within the context of the CPA.

My understanding is that AC bears 100% of the cost responsibility for any crew dislocation resulting from the commercial schedule. Perhaps that is what has kept any radical change at bay out west. But it would seem to me at least that the significant fleet changes being implemented at both Jazz/Express and AC would trigger a more logical crew basing solution at Jazz.

[truedude]

There is still a lot of flying not currently being done that used to be done out west. 3x a day YYC to YWG. I think it is 1 now. 3x yyc to ylw. 1 a day. 3x yyc to yka, currently zero. 3x a day from YYC to YYJ, currently 1 or zero. YYC to YCD, zero. YYC PDX, used to be 2x, now zero. YYC to YQR and YXE. There is a lot of flying the regional fleet can be doing even if the 220s take a lot of the US flying from YVR. Used to be 8x from YVR to YLW, now 6 or 5 someday. They have nearly abandoned their route out west. And Porter keeps creeping in.

Unless AC never plans to rebuild it's western route network, which seems incredibly short sighted, there is lots for everyone to do.

AC commercial has clearly taken a decision about YYC.

WJ retrenched to YYC. That means more presence, more seats - and accordingly - lower yields if a competitive response has more seats in the market than there is demand.

AC calls the shots. Jazz simply does as it is told within the context of the CPA.

My understanding is that AC bears 100% of the cost responsibility for any crew dislocation resulting from the commercial schedule. Perhaps that is what has kept any radical change at bay out west. But it would seem to me at least that the significant fleet changes being implemented at both Jazz/Express and AC would trigger a more logical crew basing solution at Jazz.

I think it is dumb to just surrender the west... I do not think ACs previous CEO would have just sacrificed market share. It is very short term thinking. A change in managment could also change the entire plan overnight. As they say, life turns on a dime.

[fixnfly]

Heard this before... been hearing it for 30 years.

AC is opening a YVR 220 base. That is a fact. AC has added many 220 orders. That is a fact. In fact, the 220 will be the single largest NB fleet type once all orders are delivered. The 220 is seen as AC’s main tool in reducing frequency and increasing gauge on previously operated Express city pairs.

When the 2026 CRJ fleet reduction transpires (5 leased aircraft), it is most likely to manifest in the west. The closure of the YYC CRJ base - which is long overdue - is almost inevitable. As far as consolidating the western Q400 bases, that depends on the city pairs, frequencies, and originating flights (which affects hotels/layover expense in YYC/YVR). I wouldn’t be surprised to see an attempt to avoid a net base staffing reduction by adding sufficient YYC Q400 positions. However, that could prove a challenge as Jazz is exiting 14 Q400’s by the end of 2026. Bottom line - YYC is an at risk base.

Where Jazz is headed in the next 12-24 months was predicted and is now confirmed via public financial reports. Details about bases, routes, and frequencies will flow from the fleet reductions as they manifest and AC commercial makes schedule and route decisions. Jazz at this point will be entirely responsive. The JAZ MEC may push back, but ultimately these decisions are not restricted by any provisions of the CBA.

There is still a lot of flying not currently being done that used to be done out west. 3x a day YYC to YWG. I think it is 1 now. 3x yyc to ylw. 1 a day. 3x yyc to yka, currently zero. 3x a day from YYC to YYJ, currently 1 or zero. YYC to YCD, zero. YYC PDX, used to be 2x, now zero. YYC to YQR and YXE. There is a lot of flying the regional fleet can be doing even if the 220s take a lot of the US flying from YVR. Used to be 8x from YVR to YLW, now 6 or 5 someday. They have nearly abandoned their route out west. And Porter keeps creeping in.

Unless AC never plans to rebuild it's western route network, which seems incredibly short sighted, there is lots for everyone to do.

They also gave up YYC to YZF, YYC to YXJ, YYC to YQR & YXE was 4-5x a day, YYC to IAH 3x a day, YYC to SFO 3x a day, YYC to YQU 4x a day down to 1, YYC to YMM 4-5x a day down to 1, YYC to YLW was 4-5x a day down to 1. Even YYC to YEG was 8x a day down to 3x.

Jazz was doing something like 40-45 departures a day out of YYC at one point precovid and now it's down to maybe 6-7? not to mention all the routes lost out of YEG over the years as well. It's actually pretty staggering how much flying was cut out of the prairies. I know the current leadership team wants to focus on expanding YUL, YYZ and YVR but I hope one day they'll decided to return to the prairies, maybe once pilot staffing levels have stabilized and the current expansion goals are reached. Giving up on a market of 4-5 million people doesn't seem like a wise business decision, but we aren't the ones calling the shots.

[CaptDukeNukem]

AC is opening a YVR 220 base. That is a fact. AC has added many 220 orders. That is a fact. In fact, the 220 will be the single largest NB fleet type once all orders are delivered. The 220 is seen as AC’s main tool in reducing frequency and increasing gauge on previously operated Express city pairs.

When the 2026 CRJ fleet reduction transpires (5 leased aircraft), it is most likely to manifest in the west. The closure of the YYC CRJ base - which is long overdue - is almost inevitable. As far as consolidating the western Q400 bases, that depends on the city pairs, frequencies, and originating flights (which affects hotels/layover expense in YYC/YVR). I wouldn’t be surprised to see an attempt to avoid a net base staffing reduction by adding sufficient YYC Q400 positions. However, that could prove a challenge as Jazz is exiting 14 Q400’s by the end of 2026. Bottom line - YYC is an at risk base.

Where Jazz is headed in the next 12-24 months was predicted and is now confirmed via public financial reports. Details about bases, routes, and frequencies will flow from the fleet reductions as they manifest and AC commercial makes schedule and route decisions. Jazz at this point will be entirely responsive. The JAZ MEC may push back, but ultimately these decisions are not restricted by any provisions of the CBA.

There is still a lot of flying not currently being done that used to be done out west. 3x a day YYC to YWG. I think it is 1 now. 3x yyc to ylw. 1 a day. 3x yyc to yka, currently zero. 3x a day from YYC to YYJ, currently 1 or zero. YYC to YCD, zero. YYC PDX, used to be 2x, now zero. YYC to YQR and YXE. There is a lot of flying the regional fleet can be doing even if the 220s take a lot of the US flying from YVR. Used to be 8x from YVR to YLW, now 6 or 5 someday. They have nearly abandoned their route out west. And Porter keeps creeping in.

Unless AC never plans to rebuild it's western route network, which seems incredibly short sighted, there is lots for everyone to do.

They also gave up YYC to YZF, YYC to YXJ, YYC to YQR & YXE was 4-5x a day, YYC to IAH 3x a day, YYC to SFO 3x a day, YYC to YQU 4x a day down to 1, YYC to YMM 4-5x a day down to 1, YYC to YLW was 4-5x a day down to 1. Even YYC to YEG was 8x a day down to 3x.

Jazz was doing something like 40-45 departures a day out of YYC at one point precovid and now it's down to maybe 6-7? not to mention all the routes lost out of YEG over the years as well. It's actually pretty staggering how much flying was cut out of the prairies. I know the current leadership team wants to focus on expanding YUL, YYZ and YVR but I hope one day they'll decided to return to the prairies, maybe once pilot staffing levels have stabilized and the current expansion goals are reached. Giving up on a market of 4-5 million people doesn't seem like a wise business decision, but we aren't the ones calling the shots.

Jazz is barely holding onto the East. Another 10 years to go on that terrible contract. There’s a reason AC hired PAL to top up the work, in violation of the exact reason jazz pilots signed a 10 year extension. There’s nothing good there, apart from a possibly renewed “flow agreement” that reduced the amount of jazz pilots that flow to ac within a given year. You guys can sugar coat it all you want if it makes you swallow that jagged little pill.


Hundreds got screwed over and everyone goes droning on. Sewer your new hires for long time gains that eventually get trampled on. Hows that grievance going?

[Teamgrifter]

Hahahaha!!! How’s it going? CB just spent 18 months cuckolding himself at the expense of everyone. Wtf!! The guy thought he could do that and get a favourable result???

Never. And he should have known that.

On with the CIRB and let’s offramp CB. Now.

[Teamgrifter]

Rumour is he actually tried to offramp himself last year…to ALPA Canada. They wouldn’t have him.

Anything but fly the block on the line like most of us. Anything but.

Once it’s over for him, predictably will go to std/ltd.

It’s a family affair.