Caravan Missing in Alaska

[shamrock104]

Missing over the Bering with a total of 10 people, does not sound good at all.

[karmutzen]

How does anything go missing these days? Wasn’t that whole ADS-B Capstone project rolled out in Alaska 25 years ago, what about those fancy 406 gps elt’s with the panel switch the pilot can flick on it things go pear shaped before ground impact. Everything I’ve flown up north in the last 10 years has 2 min interval sat tracking.

I see posts of the horror that it is single -engine. The last thing I’d worry about is a PT6 failure.

[Orion's Fannypack]

I see posts of the horror that it is single -engine. The last thing I’d worry about is a PT6 failure.

Often the last thing you worry about is just that.

[piperdriver]

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puKr3hIagZU[/YouTube]

[karmutzen]

Located.

https://apnews.com/article/missing-airc ... 658d4ff70a

IMG_1807.jpeg (47.15 KiB) Viewed 8637 times

[cdnavater]

Found, access to the aircraft obviously in order to determine there were three deceased on board and no idea where the other seven are.
A couple things that stand out, was one of the deceased the pilot, no ELT activated, so my assumption is that would be the first order of business if I were alive.
Next, any pilot who took survival knows to stay with the aircraft, so did the other seven wander off instead of setting up shelter. Yes, I realize shelter would be difficult on sea ice but I would hope there is enough snow to build something, I also have to imagine there is a survival kit for an aircraft that flies in that part of the world.
Anyhow, I hope they find them walking on sea ice towards the shore

[Dias]

It could be fake news that they're missing. They are probably in the fuselage.

[cdnavater]

The picture was not available at the time of my above post, no one walked away from that!
Why no ELT though, that is strange

[VFS]

Read reports the aircraft advised ATC they would be entering a holding pattern at 3-4000 feet while waiting for the runway to be cleared of snow. Snow and freezing rain in the area at the time.
Perhaps picked up too much ice for the caravan to handle? Blancorillio’s video says this aircraft was equipped with the TKS anti-ice/de-ice system as opposed to the older model’s pneumatic boot system.
I’ve never flown a caravan but have heard stories from pilots who have about how bad the boot equipped planes can be in icing, anyone with experience on how the TKS equipped planes handle icing?

[canadianfly]

9 people waw, i flew the Caravan and was never been able to stuff more than 7 people and with backpacks only.
I hate speculating so i'm gonna leave it at that.

Rest in peace mate.

[porcsord]

equipped with the TKS anti-ice/de-ice system as opposed to the older model’s pneumatic boot system.
I’ve never flown a caravan but have heard stories from pilots who have about how bad the boot equipped planes can be in icing, anyone with experience on how the TKS equipped planes handle icing?

Having flown both, in the north, in icing... TKS, assuming turned on before entering the icing works amazingly well, with one giant caveat... once you run out of fluid, that's it. You don't even get the heated panel on the windscreen because the TKS caravan uses fluid from the prop to de ice the windscreen. To add to this, I seem to recall with a full TKS tank, and setting anti ice to high... you had 22 minutes of de-icing. You could probably go through moderate icing without a problem, but once that 22 minutes is over... you're fucked.

Combine this with the fact that TKS isn't light, with 9 passengers I would expect at least gross weight. I haven't looked into the aircraft involved, but if it didn't have the blackhawk/ex/garret, they don't have enough power to maintain a safe airspeed in icing.

There is no way I would accept a hold, in icing, in a TKS caravan.

[TailwheelPilot]

9 people waw, i flew the Caravan and was never been able to stuff more than 7 people and with backpacks only.
I hate speculating so i'm gonna leave it at that.

Rest in peace mate.

Do you realize this was a 208B Grand Caravan? Nine passengers is no problem. Plenty of places in the world where they can carry twelve passengers (four rows of three) and a handful where it can carry fourteen (using seats in the very back, I think it was originally approved in the UK), plus two crew, legally.

This was an EX. I am pretty certain they are only available with TKS or clean wings.

I have heard from colleagues that the boots are more effective with the big engine upgrades, but I have never had to deal with ice while flying a Caravan.

[cdnavater]

It could be fake news that they're missing. They are probably in the fuselage.

All 10 have been recovered, another sad day for aviation!

[Tbayer2021]

9 people waw, i flew the Caravan and was never been able to stuff more than 7 people and with backpacks only.
I hate speculating so i'm gonna leave it at that.

Rest in peace mate.

Do you realize this was a 208B Grand Caravan? Nine passengers is no problem. Plenty of places in the world where they can carry twelve passengers (four rows of three) and a handful where it can carry fourteen (using seats in the very back, I think it was originally approved in the UK), plus two crew, legally.

This was an EX. I am pretty certain they are only available with TKS or clean wings.

I have heard from colleagues that the boots are more effective with the big engine upgrades, but I have never had to deal with ice while flying a Caravan.

The bigger engine sure does make the 208 feel like a very different bird. TKS does provide improved capabilities over the booted Caravan, so long as you've got fluid. But the 208 is just too much of an ice magnet. Cessna had to come up with a specific computer course as part of its mitigation when the FAA was close to pulling the Caravan's FIKI certification due to all the icing crashes. Whatever the reason for this accident, it sure looks like it came down hard from those pictures.

[Eric Janson]

Remaining in icing conditions for any length of time is a bad idea.

Freezing rain is extremely hazardous - should be an immediate heading and/or altitude change. Jmho.

People often forget that ice accumulates on the non de-iced areas - adds a lot of weight.

Still unclear if icing was a factor in this accident.

[pelmet]

Remaining in icing conditions for any length of time is a bad idea.

Freezing rain is extremely hazardous - should be an immediate heading and/or altitude change. Jmho.

People often forget that ice accumulates on the non de-iced areas - adds a lot of weight.

Still unclear if icing was a factor in this accident.

I know a fellow who did ice accumulation flight tests. He said that he was amazed at how frequently the layer of severe icing would be very narrow, meaning that changing altitude by a smaller amount than one might expect could make a significant difference. It does make sense.

[Canoehead]

I know a fellow who did ice accumulation flight tests. He said that he was amazed at how frequently the layer of severe icing would be very narrow, meaning that changing altitude by a smaller amount than one might expect could make a significant difference. It does make sense.

I've heard of the "rule of threes"
Climb or descend 3000', or turn left or right 30 degrees.

Never tried it myself (just never needed to).

[Eric Janson]

I know a fellow who did ice accumulation flight tests. He said that he was amazed at how frequently the layer of severe icing would be very narrow, meaning that changing altitude by a smaller amount than one might expect could make a significant difference. It does make sense.

The problem is that there is no way of knowing how much you need to climb or descend.

Climbing will put you closer to the stall speed and the weight of the accumulated ice may make climbing impossible.

What happens if you descend to Grid MORA and are still in icing conditions?

Best option is a 180 degree turn imho.

Even better is to wait for better conditions before doing the flight.

[pelmet]

I know a fellow who did ice accumulation flight tests. He said that he was amazed at how frequently the layer of severe icing would be very narrow, meaning that changing altitude by a smaller amount than one might expect could make a significant difference. It does make sense.

The problem is that there is no way of knowing how much you need to climb or descend.

Climbing will put you closer to the stall speed and the weight of the accumulated ice may make climbing impossible.

What happens if you descend to Grid MORA and are still in icing conditions?

Best option is a 180 degree turn imho.

Even better is to wait for better conditions before doing the flight.

A 180 can be useful but frequently the icing starts off as light. I say climb while you safely can as the first option because icing never takes away the option to descend

[goldeneagle]

What happens if you descend to Grid MORA and are still in icing conditions?

I used to teach our folks, for the return into YVR, stay on top until the MEA below you is below the freezing level. Nothing cleans the ice off an airplane faster than descending into rain.

[Dry Guy]

I say climb while you safely can as the first option because icing never takes away the option to descend

Careful. It can take away the option to descend while still in control of the aircraft.

[pelmet]

I say climb while you safely can as the first option because icing never takes away the option to descend

Careful. It can take away the option to descend while still in control of the aircraft.

That is why I made sure to put the word safely in. After encountering a situation where changing altitude due to icing made things worse, would you prefer that your only change of altitude option left was to descend or climb.

[piperdriver]

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuAmK1D3KaM[/YouTube]