Grievance update for the 285ish former Jazz pilots affected by Flow

[truedude]

Thats going to amount to a few hundred bucks per pilot, kind of insulting.

I think he meant 200k per pilot or reinstatement of lost seniority, in addition all pilots who remain at Jazz are getting A220 pay scale minus 5% and a signing bonus of 50k(retro pay)

I meant 200k for each of the 285 pilots.

Nothing else was said. You guys signed an MOA 2 years ago with pay raise, why would you suddenly receive a other’s company wage -5%? Why aren’t you getting PAL’s wage, the other AC regional?

PAL doing regional flying for Air Canada continues to be in breach of the agreement they signed with Jazz when Jazz took over the Sky Regional flying, which gave Jazz exclusive rights to teir 2 flying until the end of 2025. Another part of the ULP.

[Man_in_the_sky]

You should refer to your rep cdnavater, they’re 100% transparent with us as compared to Claude. The ULP is for the 285 pilots, and yes, they unfortunately are ahead of you if you stayed at jazz.

That’s a decision you took, you had the option of jumping ship, and you decided to stay. There won’t be any compensation.

Time will tell us, but if ACA ALPA is switching role, it’s because our 285 numbers are on the table and they need to protect all or the 5600 members on property.

[truedude]

You should refer to your rep cdnavater, they’re 100% transparent with us as compared to Claude. The ULP is for the 285 pilots, and yes, they unfortunately are ahead of you if you stayed at jazz.

That’s a decision you took, you had the option of jumping ship, and you decided to stay. There won’t be any compensation.

Time will tell us, but if ACA ALPA is switching role, it’s because our 285 numbers are on the table and they need to protect all or the 5600 members on property.

The part of the ULP that involves the 285 ACA is involved in. But the ULP covers all aspects, and anything outside the 285 ACA has zero involvement in, as it doesn't have anything to do with them. You really have zero understanding of what is going on.

[cdnavater]

You should refer to your rep cdnavater, they’re 100% transparent with us as compared to Claude. The ULP is for the 285 pilots, and yes, they unfortunately are ahead of you if you stayed at jazz.

That’s a decision you took, you had the option of jumping ship, and you decided to stay. There won’t be any compensation.

Time will tell us, but if ACA ALPA is switching role, it’s because our 285 numbers are on the table and they need to protect all or the 5600 members on property.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, that may be the part they are dealing with but that is not the entire ULP, I’m done with you now, good luck!

[Man_in_the_sky]

time will tell.

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

I haven't seen this level of solidarity and engagement since 2012. This is a good warm up for the membership for the imminent big table bargaining.

Yes!!! I remember that, it was something. 95% participation rate in the strike vote. 95% in favour of a strike. A unified group and a hard nosed bargaining team.

How did that work out for us...

We're still licking our wounds from the FOS brought to us by the NC2.

The P4C group taking the helm now is reading from the same playbook as the NC2 from 2012. Seeing huge leverage around every corner where there is very little (open border to the US ), creating member expectations that a 30% upfront raise is coming down the pipe.

P4C is a fast track to arbitration, because there isn't going to be any offer coming across the table from the Company with a 30% raise.

Hopefully it's a traditional arbitration and not FOS.

This is the shill ProtonPilot.

Total moron. Wouldn't listen to a word he says.

Comparing us to the 3% raises from the rail workers. Totally different situation.

He would have voted yes to 5% raises. Pathetic. Hopefully he is far far away from any negotiating table.

We need adults around if we are going for more.

[737Drver]

Yikes.. whoever you are ProtonPilot...you are one stupid @#$!

[thepoors]

You're missing the point, which myself and 3rdWorldClassPilot have made over and over again: the MEC surrendered all of our leverage way before that needed to happen.

Everyone here keeps skipping ahead to arbitration... We still had 3 DAYS before the strike when these traitors agreed to a dogwater TA and started pushing it on the membership "or else." That was the failure point. The company felt no pain with hardly any cancelled flights or disruptions, and ALPA leadership exposed themselves as a bunch cowards once again.

So much could have happened in those 72hrs as the deadline drew closer but they chose to flush it all prematurely. I still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why that happened and I don't think one exists. Just spineless suckers in over their depth who folded before there was any real pressure.

No, I'm not missing your point.

Midnight Saturday was the beginning of the 72 hour wind down announced by Air Canada to start cancelling flights and bringing home all aircraft that were out of country. This was the Rubicon. This wasn't about crossing the Rubicon and landing on the other side three days later - as soon as we started crossing, the government could step in and put a stop to it. That was the reality.

I'm willing to acknowledge that rejecting what the MEC believed was a best and final offer and pressing forward into that 72 hour wind down might have resulted in incremental gains to the 26/4/4/4 we eventually ratified. But I also argue that concomitant with that was an exponential increase in risk of a really substandard outcome. The MEC's job, supported by the advice of the ALPA professionals, was to weigh those two outcomes. We'll never know what could have resulted from pressing on past the Saturday midnight deadline. But we have a much better picture, thanks to the CN arbitration, of what an arbitrated result would have entailed.

I just don't think that you're acknowledging the risk reward equation.

Company was walking off the table 72 hours prior to the strike, they were either discussing at the table, or putting their wind down plan in effect.
Not the 2 at the same time. I was also under the impression we caved with 3 days left but the reality is, it was in the last hour..

1) There's no way for you to know this with any certainty.

2) It's called a bluff. And like I said, it's a bunch of suckers who fell for it.

You really think the company would just go ahead and wind down all operations, burning tens of millions a day and not continue to work towards a resolution?

[CPU2000]

I haven't seen this level of solidarity and engagement since 2012. This is a good warm up for the membership for the imminent big table bargaining.

Yes!!! I remember that, it was something. 95% participation rate in the strike vote. 95% in favour of a strike. A unified group and a hard nosed bargaining team.

How did that work out for us...

We're still licking our wounds from the FOS brought to us by the NC2.

The P4C group taking the helm now is reading from the same playbook as the NC2 from 2012. Seeing huge leverage around every corner where there is very little (open border to the US ), creating member expectations that a 30% upfront raise is coming down the pipe.

P4C is a fast track to arbitration, because there isn't going to be any offer coming across the table from the Company with a 30% raise.

Hopefully it's a traditional arbitration and not FOS.

This is the shill ProtonPilot.

Total moron. Wouldn't listen to a word he says.

Comparing us to the 3% raises from the rail workers. Totally different situation.

He would have voted yes to 5% raises. Pathetic. Hopefully he is far far away from any negotiating table.

We need adults around if we are going for more.

Wow...that did NOT age well. Demonstrates the damage done by the ACPA lovers like ProtonPilot.

He must have creamed his pants with this deal. Obviously zero understanding of his value or what a union can do. Brutal

[unitatis super omnia]

Hey thepoors,

When can we expect to see you volunteering your expertise and wisdom on the Negotiating Committee or as MEC Chair? The members can only benefit from having you in a leadership position.

[cdnavater]

No, I'm not missing your point.

Midnight Saturday was the beginning of the 72 hour wind down announced by Air Canada to start cancelling flights and bringing home all aircraft that were out of country. This was the Rubicon. This wasn't about crossing the Rubicon and landing on the other side three days later - as soon as we started crossing, the government could step in and put a stop to it. That was the reality.

I'm willing to acknowledge that rejecting what the MEC believed was a best and final offer and pressing forward into that 72 hour wind down might have resulted in incremental gains to the 26/4/4/4 we eventually ratified. But I also argue that concomitant with that was an exponential increase in risk of a really substandard outcome. The MEC's job, supported by the advice of the ALPA professionals, was to weigh those two outcomes. We'll never know what could have resulted from pressing on past the Saturday midnight deadline. But we have a much better picture, thanks to the CN arbitration, of what an arbitrated result would have entailed.

I just don't think that you're acknowledging the risk reward equation.

Company was walking off the table 72 hours prior to the strike, they were either discussing at the table, or putting their wind down plan in effect.
Not the 2 at the same time. I was also under the impression we caved with 3 days left but the reality is, it was in the last hour..

1) There's no way for you to know this with any certainty.

2) It's called a bluff. And like I said, it's a bunch of suckers who fell for it.

You really think the company would just go ahead and wind down all operations, burning tens of millions a day and not continue to work towards a resolution?

Based on this post, I take away that you are a narcissist who thinks he knows better than advisors who’ve been dedicated to negotiating for years and years. You would’ve ignored the advice and went headlong into a very risky who the fuc k knows how it’s going to go situation!
Here’s what I know from two decades of dealing with Air Canada, they don’t bluff! The wind down would have went ahead and they likely knew there was going to be government intervention as soon as that plan was activated!

[unitatis super omnia]

How DARE you talk that way towards our generation's gift to unionism and labour negotiations!!! Why if thepoors had any time or effort to spare over the last 2 years, he would have heroically led a full recall of the MEC, assumed control and marched us all out onto the picket line. After a few short quarters, His Excellency would've single handedly brought the company to its knees and negotiated a Delta+++ CA before karate chopping Mike Rousseau in the throat. I would imagine at that point the Prime Minister would bow down, kiss the ring and award our Dear Leader the Order of Canada.

"For courage, valour and selflessness in the face of an overwhelming enemy force."

Learn to show some respect

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

I can guarantee he would not have voted yes to some shill deal 72 hrs out.

And thats the point.

[thepoors]

How DARE you talk that way towards our generation's gift to unionism and labour negotiations!!! Why if thepoors had any time or effort to spare over the last 2 years, he would have heroically led a full recall of the MEC, assumed control and marched us all out onto the picket line. After a few short quarters, His Excellency would've single handedly brought the company to its knees and negotiated a Delta+++ CA before karate chopping Mike Rousseau in the throat. I would imagine at that point the Prime Minister would bow down, kiss the ring and award our Dear Leader the Order of Canada.

"For courage, valour and selflessness in the face of an overwhelming enemy force."

Learn to show some respect

This is hilarious except for the fact that you idiots think these esteemed advisors and negotiators have your best interests in mind. Many of them are the same people that did such a great job "negotiating" the 10 year deal (and Leafs box seats from the company).

For the record, I do welcome any opportunity to give Mikey a chop to the throat.

[Protonpilot]

[

For the record, I do welcome any opportunity to give Mikey a chop to the throat.

Some career advice for you…I would take down that post ASAP.

Google the SkyRegional pilot who included similar comments in an email. Or the AC pilot who posted about Gaza last year.

You’re not as anonymous as you think.

[Blueontop]

[

For the record, I do welcome any opportunity to give Mikey a chop to the throat.

Some career advice for you…I would take down that post ASAP.

Google the SkyRegional pilot who included similar comments in an email. Or the AC pilot who posted about Gaza last year.

You’re not as anonymous as you think.

Mikey? Is that you?

Thepoors must be trembling with fear…

(FYI… those examples you provided are not even remotely similar.)

[CaptDukeNukem]

[

For the record, I do welcome any opportunity to give Mikey a chop to the throat.

Some career advice for you…I would take down that post ASAP.

Google the SkyRegional pilot who included similar comments in an email. Or the AC pilot who posted about Gaza last year.

You’re not as anonymous as you think.

How is this anything similar?

The AC pilot had his uniform on and regardless of his views, put aircanada in a political situation.

Also, posting on an anonymous website is much different than sending emails using your company Hotmail account.

Some career advice for you, use a VPN when watching your ACPA porn.

[noreasterYHZ]

[

For the record, I do welcome any opportunity to give Mikey a chop to the throat.

Some career advice for you…I would take down that post ASAP.

Google the SkyRegional pilot who included similar comments in an email. Or the AC pilot who posted about Gaza last year.

You’re not as anonymous as you think.

ProtonPilot...a shill and a pussy

[PostmasterGeneral]

After the latest AC-ALPA message, sounds like this whole thing is a big nothing burger.

[Jean-Pierre]

I came to see the word on the street about this grievance

Word is 200k + lump sum for every of the 285 affe tes
Or full restatement of seniority
[/quote]

Congratulation to Jazz pilots. I would much rather have that $200k now instead of a few seniority number.

[tango308]

I came to see the word on the street about this grievance

Word is 200k + lump sum for every of the 285 affe tes
Or full restatement of seniority

Congratulation to Jazz pilots. I would much rather have that $200k now instead of a few seniority number.
[/quote]

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades

[PostmasterGeneral]

I came to see the word on the street about this grievance

Word is 200k + lump sum for every of the 285 affe tes
Or full restatement of seniority

Congratulation to Jazz pilots. I would much rather have that $200k now instead of a few seniority number.

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades
[/quote]

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

[Nick678]

Word is 200k + lump sum for every of the 285 affe tes
Or full restatement of seniority

Congratulation to Jazz pilots. I would much rather have that $200k now instead of a few seniority number.

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.
[/quote]

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.

[truedude]

Congratulation to Jazz pilots. I would much rather have that $200k now instead of a few seniority number.

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.
[/quote]

That email did not indicate that seniority was not involved. If anything, it says they don't even have a full picture of what is going on.

[goingnowherefast]

Congratulation to Jazz pilots. I would much rather have that $200k now instead of a few seniority number.

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.
[/quote]

Just guessing. Because AC MEC took it off the table? Someone proposed it and they said "no, absolutely not".

It's a shitty situation created by AC management. It's not fair to punish AC pilots with seniority rearranging. The best way out is for monetary compensation. Maybe a lump sum for loss of bidding power, and starting at level 2 or 3 pay. No harm done to AC pilots and the penalty is paid purely by AC management. It still sucks for the 285 pilots.