Grievance update for the 285ish former Jazz pilots affected by Flow

[ZBBYLW]

Just curious what ballpark seniority # did the jazz guys start getting skipped on courses. Obviously it would be a rough number, are we taking mid 4000s, early 4000s, into the 3000s?

I always felt you should get your seniority number day 1 of ground school, full stop. None of this reserved seniority BS while you stay at Jazz for two years, or somewhere else and parachute on top of others on property. Only exceptional circumstances like you've been assigned a course and then had a family emergency and you have to prioritize your family. The whole PML was a disaster and there were many AC pilots laid off who had been on the line longer than Jazz PML candidates who had their cake and ate it too.

This issue is 100% on AC. They dangled a carrot and the jazz pilots took a bite. In reality hiring non stop from Jazz has hurt AC. Instead of hiring the most qualified candidates for the job they hired hundreds + of jazz guys. Now experienced guys from WS, AT and overseas are having a harder time coming here because they are going to be behind a tonne of very young AC ex QK pilots. And no fault to the QK guys, I was young once too, but it would serve as a disincentive for a bunch of older guys who are now going to Porter, Flair, staying at WS etc.

[Me262]

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.

Just guessing. Because AC MEC took it off the table? Someone proposed it and they said "no, absolutely not".

It's a shitty situation created by AC management. It's not fair to punish AC pilots with seniority rearranging. The best way out is for monetary compensation. Maybe a lump sum for loss of bidding power, and starting at level 2 or 3 pay. No harm done to AC pilots and the penalty is paid purely by AC management. It still sucks for the 285 pilots.
[/quote]

Seniority rearrangement would be the cheapest option for AC management, and we know AC is all about money and profits. Plus, it makes pilots fight amongst themselves so win win.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.

Just guessing. Because AC MEC took it off the table? Someone proposed it and they said "no, absolutely not".

It's a shitty situation created by AC management. It's not fair to punish AC pilots with seniority rearranging. The best way out is for monetary compensation. Maybe a lump sum for loss of bidding power, and starting at level 2 or 3 pay. No harm done to AC pilots and the penalty is paid purely by AC management. It still sucks for the 285 pilots.
[/quote]

I think that's what the majority of the group is expecting to be honest. at least, the reasonable one

[PostmasterGeneral]

Congratulation to Jazz pilots. I would much rather have that $200k now instead of a few seniority number.

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.
[/quote]

Because, that was the exact message of the email. They requested intervener status so that they had access to the information from all parties which they didn’t get as an observer.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Some of the 285 pilots could receive a 800 number boost in seniority. A totally different game for schedules, vacation, pay progression eventual upgrades

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.

That email did not indicate that seniority was not involved. If anything, it says they don't even have a full picture of what is going on.
[/quote]

The only ones with access to the ACA pilot seniority list is AC ALPA. Not the company, not the CIRB, not Jazz. You can keep dreaming of some sort of AC seniority all you want, but it’s not even on the table.

Just be hopeful for some sort of payout, and if yo really want AC that bad, keep applying and see what happens when the dust settles.

[truedude]

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.

That email did not indicate that seniority was not involved. If anything, it says they don't even have a full picture of what is going on.

The only ones with access to the ACA pilot seniority list is AC ALPA. Not the company, not the CIRB, not Jazz. You can keep dreaming of some sort of AC seniority all you want, but it’s not even on the table.

Just be hopeful for some sort of payout, and if yo really want AC that bad, keep applying and see what happens when the dust settles.
[/quote]

The CIRB absolutely has that power and authority, and if you dont think they do, then you are dreaming.

They set aside the Mitchnik award after it had been in force for over a year. They absolutely have the power to make changes to seniority lists. So the CIRB can reshuffle those 285 into the deck based on being hired when they should have been.

As for anyone else at Jazz, that would only happen if a common employer application was successful, at which point the CIRB would direct both labour groups to put forward arguments for a combined list.

[cdnavater]

It was pretty evident after the latest ACA MEC email that seniority isn’t on the table.

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.

That email did not indicate that seniority was not involved. If anything, it says they don't even have a full picture of what is going on.

The only ones with access to the ACA pilot seniority list is AC ALPA. Not the company, not the CIRB, not Jazz. You can keep dreaming of some sort of AC seniority all you want, but it’s not even on the table.

Just be hopeful for some sort of payout, and if yo really want AC that bad, keep applying and see what happens when the dust settles.
[/quote]

PostmasterGenral is a former Jazz pilot who went on pml 1.0, he is butthurt at the thought of any junior Jazz pilot getting anything he didn’t!

[PostmasterGeneral]

Why would they get involved if seniority wasn’t on the table.

That email did not indicate that seniority was not involved. If anything, it says they don't even have a full picture of what is going on.

The only ones with access to the ACA pilot seniority list is AC ALPA. Not the company, not the CIRB, not Jazz. You can keep dreaming of some sort of AC seniority all you want, but it’s not even on the table.

Just be hopeful for some sort of payout, and if yo really want AC that bad, keep applying and see what happens when the dust settles.

PostmasterGenral is a former Jazz pilot who went on pml 1.0, he is butthurt at the thought of any junior Jazz pilot getting anything he didn’t!
[/quote]

Riiiight.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Back to the original topic

anyone heard anything ?

[cdnavater]

Back to the original topic

anyone heard anything ?

After the recent recall attempt they email said roadshow coming with updates on that!

[Man_in_the_sky]

Back to the original topic

anyone heard anything ?

After the recent recall attempt they email said roadshow coming with updates on that!

Why would they do a roadshow, to present any offer ?!

[cdnavater]

Back to the original topic

anyone heard anything ?

After the recent recall attempt they email said roadshow coming with updates on that!

Why would they do a roadshow, to present any offer ?!

Says to discuss the current CIRB proceedings, bargaining, internal politics and answer questions, in my opinion this was what was needed to have the support of the LEC reps, kind of a deal to keep the exec going. Just speculation but it is in line with some of the things I heard regarding the YUL vendetta against CR.

[Fowler]

Not a vendetta at all.
Severe cost overruns and paid trips to Hawaii by their exec chairman. Office and Car?
Do we have a car?
Trying to get information which apparently is stonewalled.
Also a rumour that we will not engage with their Chairman since our chair resigned?

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Could the mods please move this to the Jazz forum?

[crystalpizza]

Not a vendetta at all.
Severe cost overruns and paid trips to Hawaii by their exec chairman. Office and Car?
Do we have a car?
Trying to get information which apparently is stonewalled.
Also a rumour that we will not engage with their Chairman since our chair resigned?

Keep this irrelevant garbage out of the AC forum.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Could the mods please move this to the Jazz forum?

I think it belongs here as all affected pilots are at AC now

[cdnavater]

Could the mods please move this to the Jazz forum?

I think it belongs here as all affected pilots are at AC now

I heard AC ALPA has the file dealing with you now, the rest of the affected Jazz pilots say good riddance!

[Man_in_the_sky]

Could the mods please move this to the Jazz forum?

I think it belongs here as all affected pilots are at AC now

I heard AC ALPA has the file dealing with you now, the rest of the affected Jazz pilots say good riddance!

Still JZA ALPA that work for us as we were paying them at that moment. I guess we paid some HNL trip

[cdnavater]

I think it belongs here as all affected pilots are at AC now

I heard AC ALPA has the file dealing with you now, the rest of the affected Jazz pilots say good riddance!

Still JZA ALPA that work for us as we were paying them at that moment. I guess we paid some HNL trip

What do you mean “we’re” still paying them? You work for AC, your dues are going to AC ALPA, are they not?

[Man_in_the_sky]

I heard AC ALPA has the file dealing with you now, the rest of the affected Jazz pilots say good riddance!

Still JZA ALPA that work for us as we were paying them at that moment. I guess we paid some HNL trip

What do you mean “we’re” still paying them? You work for AC, your dues are going to AC ALPA, are they not?

You are mis-quoting me. When the flow was not respected, our dues were going to JZA ALPA, even if now, everyone flowed.

I understand you don’t like alot of us, but there is many jazz pilots looking up to see how their union protect their pilots in regard to the flow.

[cdnavater]

Still JZA ALPA that work for us as we were paying them at that moment. I guess we paid some HNL trip

What do you mean “we’re” still paying them? You work for AC, your dues are going to AC ALPA, are they not?

You are mis-quoting me. When the flow was not respected, our dues were going to JZA ALPA, even if now, everyone flowed.

I understand you don’t like alot of us, but there is many jazz pilots looking up to see how their union protect their pilots in regard to the flow.

No, you do NOT understand at all, your arrogance is astounding!
Of course I wholeheartedly believe that flow should have been respected, it was negotiated and not followed but you continue to ignore the FACT that ALL Jazz pilots were harmed and seem to think you(285) are the only ones who should get anything!
The pilots who have been stagnated for years, over 10 years without any improvements, aside from the recent contract which still leaves us behind inflation. The contract that was rejected by AC might have caught us up but we don’t actually know what it was, the ULP should fill in those details.
We were held back by competition that was willing to work for less, including YOU, you who accepted a job at Jazz despite the low starting wage!
All Jazz pilots will and should be compensated for the actions of AC and frankly, you are low on the list for me, you lost some seniority but that doesn’t guarantee anything, who knows if you could even pass the upgrade and yes, absolutely think AC ALPA should be representing you now, since they too refuse to come to the table on behalf of Jazz pilots!

[Man_in_the_sky]

What do you mean “we’re” still paying them? You work for AC, your dues are going to AC ALPA, are they not?

You are mis-quoting me. When the flow was not respected, our dues were going to JZA ALPA, even if now, everyone flowed.

I understand you don’t like alot of us, but there is many jazz pilots looking up to see how their union protect their pilots in regard to the flow.

No, you do NOT understand at all, your arrogance is astounding!
Of course I wholeheartedly believe that flow should have been respected, it was negotiated and not followed but you continue to ignore the FACT that ALL Jazz pilots were harmed and seem to think you(285) are the only ones who should get anything!
The pilots who have been stagnated for years, over 10 years without any improvements, aside from the recent contract which still leaves us behind inflation. The contract that was rejected by AC might have caught us up but we don’t actually know what it was, the ULP should fill in those details.
We were held back by competition that was willing to work for less, including YOU, you who accepted a job at Jazz despite the low starting wage!
All Jazz pilots will and should be compensated for the actions of AC and frankly, you are low on the list for me, you lost some seniority but that doesn’t guarantee anything, who knows if you could even pass the upgrade and yes, absolutely think AC ALPA should be representing you now, since they too refuse to come to the table on behalf of Jazz pilots!

Get a coffee man.

I didn’t pick Jazz as my first 705 job, i went to sky to avoid being posted in the west. Those who “accepted” a low starting wage are really the one to blame, or those who voted a B scale ?

Ac alpa can’t represent us because their mandate is simply to protect ac pilots under the ac ca. The AC CA wasn’t breached, it was jazz’s contract that got breached, therefore jazz alpa is having the mandate.

It’s nice outside, go enjoy your sunday.

[cdnavater]

You are mis-quoting me. When the flow was not respected, our dues were going to JZA ALPA, even if now, everyone flowed.

I understand you don’t like alot of us, but there is many jazz pilots looking up to see how their union protect their pilots in regard to the flow.

No, you do NOT understand at all, your arrogance is astounding!
Of course I wholeheartedly believe that flow should have been respected, it was negotiated and not followed but you continue to ignore the FACT that ALL Jazz pilots were harmed and seem to think you(285) are the only ones who should get anything!
The pilots who have been stagnated for years, over 10 years without any improvements, aside from the recent contract which still leaves us behind inflation. The contract that was rejected by AC might have caught us up but we don’t actually know what it was, the ULP should fill in those details.
We were held back by competition that was willing to work for less, including YOU, you who accepted a job at Jazz despite the low starting wage!
All Jazz pilots will and should be compensated for the actions of AC and frankly, you are low on the list for me, you lost some seniority but that doesn’t guarantee anything, who knows if you could even pass the upgrade and yes, absolutely think AC ALPA should be representing you now, since they too refuse to come to the table on behalf of Jazz pilots!

Get a coffee man.

I didn’t pick Jazz as my first 705 job, i went to sky to avoid being posted in the west. Those who “accepted” a low starting wage are really the one to blame, or those who voted a B scale ?

Ac alpa can’t represent us because their mandate is simply to protect ac pilots under the ac ca. The AC CA wasn’t breached, it was jazz’s contract that got breached, therefore jazz alpa is having the mandate.

It’s nice outside, go enjoy your sunday.

I knew I didn’t like you now I know why, you worked for the fn company that started the downward spiral dive, Scab Regional! Congratulations on being a douchenozzle!
Now I can dismiss absolutely anything you have to say, any credibility you might have had before went down the shitter when you suggested Scab Regional pilots were not the problem, our so called b scale matched you fu ckheads AND ITS GONE NOW THAT WE RID THE INDUSTRY OF YOU FU CKWADS! Couldn’t care less if you see one dime from this!

[daedalusx]

Imagine shitting on the Jazz boomers/X-ers when you took a fucking seat at Scab … Jesus Christ

[Man_in_the_sky]

Imagine shitting on the Jazz boomers/X-ers when you took a fucking seat at Scab … Jesus Christ

Yeah because at 2000 TT, you guys were picking your first 705 company based on politics!

Gotcha, man of valor, but voted for a B scale.

I Honestly don't care how much my opinion weight to your eyes, your judgement has been proven to be self centered anyway.

Good luck on your ULP, was the next meeting with the CIRB in Honolulu by the way ?