Do we have a commuting policy now?

[Jean-Pierre]

I'd like to move away from base for house price reason. Did the new contract bring any clarity for the commuter?

[Man_in_the_sky]

I'd like to move away from base for house price reason. Did the new contract bring any clarity for the commuter?

Yes

[Jean-Pierre]

Cool thanks. I see it in the contract. So you need to have two flights that arrive before your check-in time. Those can be pass travel standby flights I assume. Does it matter if those two flights are completely booked up and already have a bunch of cons listed ahead of you?

[Man_in_the_sky]

Cool thanks. I see it in the contract. So you need to have two flights that arrive before your check-in time. Those can be pass travel standby flights I assume. Does it matter if those two flights are completely booked up and already have a bunch of cons listed ahead of you?

I wouldn't risk it.

[Me262]

Just call sick if you don't get on. That's what my buddy's been doing for years now. Or so he claims. RP on WB soon to turn FO if that matters.

[Jean-Pierre]

Cool thanks. I see it in the contract. So you need to have two flights that arrive before your check-in time. Those can be pass travel standby flights I assume. Does it matter if those two flights are completely booked up and already have a bunch of cons listed ahead of you?

I wouldn't risk it.

You mean don't fly on standby? How can people afford to book confirmed seats?

[Me262]

Cool thanks. I see it in the contract. So you need to have two flights that arrive before your check-in time. Those can be pass travel standby flights I assume. Does it matter if those two flights are completely booked up and already have a bunch of cons listed ahead of you?

I wouldn't risk it.

You mean don't fly on standby? How can people afford to book confirmed seats?

Of course you fly stby. He meant using your 2 flights with more cons than available space.

[Jean-Pierre]

Ok well that's pretty much every flight these days.

[altiplano]

You need 2 standby flights, and then it's no fault drop or partial drop as applicable with no pay. You call when you don't get on the first flight and tell them you're using your second flight. If you follow the procedure and don't get on the second flight they can't take disciplinary action against you.

If you have a confirmed flight that arrives 90 minutes prior to report you don't need a second flight. If the flight cancels or is delayed, it's same no fault drop, no pay.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Isn't it against the pass travel rules to list yourself on 2 different flights?

[Man_in_the_sky]

Isn't it against the pass travel rules to list yourself on 2 different flights?

You usually get pushed to the next one by the gate agent. And yes i use standby, but i wouldn’t use 2 oversold flight as my last 2 sby flight to get to work and count on company to help you with that.

[cdnavater]

Isn't it against the pass travel rules to list yourself on 2 different flights?

Unless the policy states it must be a company flight, two flights could include WJ, Porter or Flair in the mix. Quite often I have a WJ and AC flight leaving very close to the same time, so I’m obviously booked on both.
As for having two flights that are oversold or have seats but more cons than seats ahead of you, this would be using the policy irresponsibly for me personally, I prefer to get to work so I watch the flights and sometimes go earlier than I need to, most of the time I go the day before regardless of check in time. If I can’t commute and do my scheduled flying in a duty day then I go the day before and get my crew rest.
I’ve been commuting 20 years, as a Jazz pilot with the lower priority I have not once had to miss my check in, one time I called to say I didn’t get on and my next flight didn’t look good, I ended up getting on the next flight.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Isn't it against the pass travel rules to list yourself on 2 different flights?

Unless the policy states it must be a company flight, two flights could include WJ, Porter or Flair in the mix. Quite often I have a WJ and AC flight leaving very close to the same time, so I’m obviously booked on both.
As for having two flights that are oversold or have seats but more cons than seats ahead of you, this would be using the policy irresponsibly for me personally, I prefer to get to work so I watch the flights and sometimes go earlier than I need to, most of the time I go the day before regardless of check in time. If I can’t commute and do my scheduled flying in a duty day then I go the day before and get my crew rest.
I’ve been commuting 20 years, as a Jazz pilot with the lower priority I have not once had to miss my check in, one time I called to say I didn’t get on and my next flight didn’t look good, I ended up getting on the next flight.

FOSAP is actually a great program that makes you ahead of any AC pilots on your own planes.

[cdnavater]

Isn't it against the pass travel rules to list yourself on 2 different flights?

Unless the policy states it must be a company flight, two flights could include WJ, Porter or Flair in the mix. Quite often I have a WJ and AC flight leaving very close to the same time, so I’m obviously booked on both.
As for having two flights that are oversold or have seats but more cons than seats ahead of you, this would be using the policy irresponsibly for me personally, I prefer to get to work so I watch the flights and sometimes go earlier than I need to, most of the time I go the day before regardless of check in time. If I can’t commute and do my scheduled flying in a duty day then I go the day before and get my crew rest.
I’ve been commuting 20 years, as a Jazz pilot with the lower priority I have not once had to miss my check in, one time I called to say I didn’t get on and my next flight didn’t look good, I ended up getting on the next flight.

FOSAP is actually a great program that makes you ahead of any AC pilots on your own planes.

Would work if Jazz serviced the airport I commute from, they do not.

[altiplano]

OAL flights are specifically included, doesn't have to be an AC flight.

But if it were 2 AC flights, agents rarely roll you over anymore - can't be bothered. If you can't meet the cut off to wait on your first option and still have time to rebook yourself if you don't get on I would list for the second flight. Irrespective of travel policy you are following the contract which they have agreed to.

Really, loads should be a non-issue for all of us most of the time. My flight deck is always open to pilots.

[Jean-Pierre]

most of the time I go the day before regardless of check in time.

Ok thanks for this. I think I no longer wish to be a commuter.

[cdnavater]

most of the time I go the day before regardless of check in time.

Ok thanks for this. I think I no longer wish to be a commuter.

lol, like I said if I can commute and fit my scheduled duty in a legal duty day, I will go day of.
Seniority always makes commuting easier and if you can find pairings with a single leg on day one with a late check in etc…
I prefer early mornings as opposed to late check in, so instead of finishing late on the last day I finish early and go home, so no real loss. Some pairings will start later and still finish early, that’s a perfect world but at the end of the day, commuting cost time, flights don’t always line up perfectly so you’ll lose that time, weather delays, cancellations all these are factors but I’ll say I much prefer that to living at really any of our expensive bases.
I’ve talked to guys sitting in the crewroom who were waiting for rush hour to end before going home, they say I could sit here for 3 hours and spend an hour and a half in my car or go now and spend four and a half hours in my car.

All in all commuting allows a much better lifestyle at home, waterfront acreage very close to a city, 35 minutes to a Costco or whatever shopping, newer house with a big shop for the toys for under a million, so I really wouldn’t trade it!

[Jean-Pierre]

Thanks but I think it's not for me. I already spend too much of my life sitting around airports not getting paid.
I read unemployment is now at 10% so I will wait for economic collapse and housing bubble to pop.

[cdnavater]

Thanks but I think it's not for me. I already spend too much of my life sitting around airports not getting paid.
I read unemployment is now at 10% so I will wait for economic collapse and housing bubble to pop.

Probably a good idea, just saying living where you want and commuting is not the worst thing, it’s what you make of it, I will be commuting until I retire, of course that is partly why I intend to retire sooner than later!

[gilbertmartin]

I don’t think we’ve got a clear commuting policy yet. The new contract just adds a bit about travel reimbursement, but nothing concrete

[altiplano]

I don’t think we’ve got a clear commuting policy yet. The new contract just adds a bit about travel reimbursement, but nothing concrete

Do you even read the contract?

ARTICLE 34 – COMMUTING

[Dry Guy]

I don't know if drop with no credit is much of a commuting policy. It's just a promise not to get you in trouble for trying to get to work. Reading this thread makes it seem like it's not even that if people are saying things like 'I wouldn't risk it'.

[Man_in_the_sky]

I don't know if drop with no credit is much of a commuting policy. It's just a promise not to get you in trouble for trying to get to work. Reading this thread makes it seem like it's not even that if people are saying things like 'I wouldn't risk it'.

Do you expect to not show up and get your full credits ?
God entitled kids

[crystalpizza]

I don't know if drop with no credit is much of a commuting policy. It's just a promise not to get you in trouble for trying to get to work. Reading this thread makes it seem like it's not even that if people are saying things like 'I wouldn't risk it'.

Literally no airline in the world drops with credit on a missed commute. I don't see what there is to risk or not risk with ours as it's pretty much the same policy verbatim as most other airlines. The only room for improvement is the "prudent judgment" line which could possibly be interpreted in different ways. Delta for example is black and white on flights needing to either show an available seat within 24 hours given the pilot's seniority or have a jumpseat available.

[cdnavater]

I don't know if drop with no credit is much of a commuting policy. It's just a promise not to get you in trouble for trying to get to work. Reading this thread makes it seem like it's not even that if people are saying things like 'I wouldn't risk it'.

Are you saying if you drive from two hours North of YYZ and a snow storm shuts down the highway, you would expect to be paid for missed work!
As for the prudent judgment, basically the same as Jazz that says exercise good judgement and it’s not arbitrary, the union would be involved should the company say you used poor judgement.
It would be considered poor judgment if there was a blizzard forecast the day of and you showed up for your two flights expecting nothing to go wrong, in this instance I have gone the day before which backfired one time, the storm track and severity changed and there were no cancellations the day I needed to go. However, in 20 years I can remember two times where I went a day early and as I said not once have I missed my report, I tend to use good judgement.
Another example would be expecting to get on the last flight Friday of spring break or you clearly see the flights are full with tons of cons listed, this would likely be poor judgment however, if you are the senior commuter and are basically guaranteed the jumpseat, how could they fault you if another more senior just shows up and takes that.
When they use words like prudent, this is obviously open to interpretation for both sides, just make sure you can justify your decisions!