Does anyone know what the MEC is actually trying to get out of the ULP?

[Man_in_the_sky]

Logical to ask for sure, very unlikely outcome. Guaranteed if common employer is being explored it will be an arbitrated list and based on some formula the arbitrator comes up with. For me, I have absolutely zero desire to go to AC for my last years, but I would not accept an outcome where some junior AC pilots can come fly an RJ for a few years bumping me down the list. So BOTL is a non starter unless it comes with my DOH on my type but if I decide to move then it’s the new seniority, then I couldn’t care less!

In wich scenario someone already on AC property would go fly an RJ ?

If one list os formed and the Jazz guys are BOTL. Jazz needs captains; if someone from AC hired last week would then be senior to all Jazz pilots... so if they bid down to an RJ to fill a left seat, they would effectively be senior to all Jazz pilots, which of ourse won't work.

But this is all speculative and should be done with a beer in hand, with no one losing any sleep, as none of us know what will happen.

I don’t think any AC pilot thinks going “back” to fly an rj is an acceptable outcome

As every jazz pilots doesn’t wish the same.

[truedude]

In wich scenario someone already on AC property would go fly an RJ ?

If one list os formed and the Jazz guys are BOTL. Jazz needs captains; if someone from AC hired last week would then be senior to all Jazz pilots... so if they bid down to an RJ to fill a left seat, they would effectively be senior to all Jazz pilots, which of ourse won't work.

But this is all speculative and should be done with a beer in hand, with no one losing any sleep, as none of us know what will happen.

I don’t think any AC pilot thinks going “back” to fly an rj is an acceptable outcome

As every jazz pilots doesn’t wish the same.

If it is one list, why wouldn't someone? Especially if the pay scale is fixed as well? If someone wanted to bid left seat RJ vs right seat something else, I can see a lot of people being open to that.

We aren't talking about anyone being forced, but rather making decions that reflect what they want for quality of life.

[cdnavater]

If Jazz pilots have a strong common employer case, DOH would be a logical ask.

Logical to ask for sure, very unlikely outcome. Guaranteed if common employer is being explored it will be an arbitrated list and based on some formula the arbitrator comes up with. For me, I have absolutely zero desire to go to AC for my last years, but I would not accept an outcome where some junior AC pilots can come fly an RJ for a few years bumping me down the list. So BOTL is a non starter unless it comes with my DOH on my type but if I decide to move then it’s the new seniority, then I couldn’t care less!

In wich scenario someone already on AC property would go fly an RJ ?

If Jazz pilots were BOTL, a new hire at AC yesterday could go to Jazz and be senior to every single Jazz pilot,1200ish numbers below an AC new hire, that would not fly, pardon the pun!
You are thinking of Jazz as a single entity but common employer could change that, so in this beer glasses world, fences would need to be put up before any AC pilot could bid to a Jazz aircraft for better seniority and bump a 20 year Captain down the list

[rudder]

How is it that some believe that a CBA grievance and an interference complaint has morphed in to a common employer petition? If somebody wants to argue CE, then they have to file it. And trust me, the process will be one a lot more complicated than mediation followed by an order.

Jazz pilots want to be ‘made whole’ and they are asking the CIRB to order that result. Whether that happens remains to be determined. It will not be CE or a merging of lists.

[truedude]

How is it that some believe that a CBA grievance and an interference complaint has morphed in to a common employer petition? If somebody wants to argue CE, then they have to file it. And trust me, the process will be one a lot more complicated than mediation followed by an order.

Jazz pilots want to be ‘made whole’ and they are asking the CIRB to order that result. Whether that happens remains to be determined. It will not be CE or a merging of lists.

Want to wager a beer on that?

[cdnavater]

How is it that some believe that a CBA grievance and an interference complaint has morphed in to a common employer petition? If somebody wants to argue CE, then they have to file it. And trust me, the process will be one a lot more complicated than mediation followed by an order.

Jazz pilots want to be ‘made whole’ and they are asking the CIRB to order that result. Whether that happens remains to be determined. It will not be CE or a merging of lists.

There was a little more than just interference, someone made the decision to not flow Jazz pilots to maintain the integrity of the operations, who and what amount of collusion took place for that? Then there was the contract negotiations and then Jazz who seemingly was the only entity that could challenge PAL flying because it was in the CPA, didn’t! Was there collusion on that? There are many factors that almost scream common employer and perhaps the CIRB will see it that way

[Nick678]

How is it that some believe that a CBA grievance and an interference complaint has morphed in to a common employer petition? If somebody wants to argue CE, then they have to file it. And trust me, the process will be one a lot more complicated than mediation followed by an order.

Jazz pilots want to be ‘made whole’ and they are asking the CIRB to order that result. Whether that happens remains to be determined. It will not be CE or a merging of lists.

There was a little more than just interference, someone made the decision to not flow Jazz pilots to maintain the integrity of the operations, who and what amount of collusion took place for that? Then there was the contract negotiations and then Jazz who seemingly was the only entity that could challenge PAL flying because it was in the CPA, didn’t! Was there collusion on that? There are many factors that almost scream common employer and perhaps the CIRB will see it that way

I believe encore tried for common employer with westjet and it was unsuccessful. It's hard to imagine that Jazz has a chance at it. (Although I can't find any record of this, someone can correct me if I'm wrong)

I know there are other issues (PAL, contract interference) but it seems exploitive to use the 298 pilots who didn't go to AC on time as a bargaining chip to get everyone at Jazz on AC's seniority list. I doubt this request would be made if it was just the PAL and contract interference issues.

[truedude]

How is it that some believe that a CBA grievance and an interference complaint has morphed in to a common employer petition? If somebody wants to argue CE, then they have to file it. And trust me, the process will be one a lot more complicated than mediation followed by an order.

Jazz pilots want to be ‘made whole’ and they are asking the CIRB to order that result. Whether that happens remains to be determined. It will not be CE or a merging of lists.

There was a little more than just interference, someone made the decision to not flow Jazz pilots to maintain the integrity of the operations, who and what amount of collusion took place for that? Then there was the contract negotiations and then Jazz who seemingly was the only entity that could challenge PAL flying because it was in the CPA, didn’t! Was there collusion on that? There are many factors that almost scream common employer and perhaps the CIRB will see it that way

I believe encore tried for common employer with westjet and it was unsuccessful. It's hard to imagine that Jazz has a chance at it. (Although I can't find any record of this, someone can correct me if I'm wrong)

I know there are other issues (PAL, contract interference) but it seems exploitive to use the 298 pilots who didn't go to AC on time as a bargaining chip to get everyone at Jazz on AC's seniority list. I doubt this request would be made if it was just the PAL and contract interference issues.

Encore pilots have not made a common employer application at any point.

[cdnavater]

How is it that some believe that a CBA grievance and an interference complaint has morphed in to a common employer petition? If somebody wants to argue CE, then they have to file it. And trust me, the process will be one a lot more complicated than mediation followed by an order.

Jazz pilots want to be ‘made whole’ and they are asking the CIRB to order that result. Whether that happens remains to be determined. It will not be CE or a merging of lists.

There was a little more than just interference, someone made the decision to not flow Jazz pilots to maintain the integrity of the operations, who and what amount of collusion took place for that? Then there was the contract negotiations and then Jazz who seemingly was the only entity that could challenge PAL flying because it was in the CPA, didn’t! Was there collusion on that? There are many factors that almost scream common employer and perhaps the CIRB will see it that way

I believe encore tried for common employer with westjet and it was unsuccessful. It's hard to imagine that Jazz has a chance at it. (Although I can't find any record of this, someone can correct me if I'm wrong)

I know there are other issues (PAL, contract interference) but it seems exploitive to use the 298 pilots who didn't go to AC on time as a bargaining chip to get everyone at Jazz on AC's seniority list. I doubt this request would be made if it was just the PAL and contract interference issues.

The problem is, you and many other like to minimize how much AC has been involved in Jazz pilots lives over the years, everything has been brought into the conversation at one point or another but the most recent examples of their interference is as stated above, the pilots who didn’t flow, PAL and the contract that was rejected by AC even though we bargained in good faith with Jazz management. The last one likely being their biggest mistake, we don’t bargain with AC for contract improvements, yet we had to, muddying the waters as to who our employer is.

[PostmasterGeneral]

I think that’s why this thread was started in the first place, referring back to the title. The waters around this issue are so beyond muddy now, it’s morphed into something far outside the scope of the original grievance.

What role did Jazz management play in preventing pilots from flowing in order to protect their operation? The CIRB will be looking at that. I think the accusations of collusion are very well founded, the question is to what extent?

[truedude]

I think that’s why this thread was started in the first place, referring back to the title. The waters around this issue are so beyond muddy now, it’s morphed into something far outside the scope of the original grievance.

What role did Jazz management play in preventing pilots from flowing in order to protect their operation? The CIRB will be looking at that. I think the accusations of collusion are very well founded, the question is to what extent?

No one actually knows whay exactly was filed with the CIRB, and we won't know until it is all over. So a common employer may have been part of it...

We will all know soon enough.

[Man_in_the_sky]

I think that’s why this thread was started in the first place, referring back to the title. The waters around this issue are so beyond muddy now, it’s morphed into something far outside the scope of the original grievance.

What role did Jazz management play in preventing pilots from flowing in order to protect their operation? The CIRB will be looking at that. I think the accusations of collusion are very well founded, the question is to what extent?

No one actually knows whay exactly was filed with the CIRB, and we won't know until it is all over. So a common employer may have been part of it...

We will all know soon enough.

Speak to your reps. No common employer is currently filed.

[truedude]

I think that’s why this thread was started in the first place, referring back to the title. The waters around this issue are so beyond muddy now, it’s morphed into something far outside the scope of the original grievance.

What role did Jazz management play in preventing pilots from flowing in order to protect their operation? The CIRB will be looking at that. I think the accusations of collusion are very well founded, the question is to what extent?

No one actually knows whay exactly was filed with the CIRB, and we won't know until it is all over. So a common employer may have been part of it...

We will all know soon enough.

Speak to your reps. No common employer is currently filed.

Your reps have not even been remotely honest with you about proceedings

[NSFly]

No one actually knows whay exactly was filed with the CIRB, and we won't know until it is all over. So a common employer may have been part of it...

We will all know soon enough.

Speak to your reps. No common employer is currently filed.

Your reps have not even been remotely honest with you about proceedings

Go ahead, elaborate

[Man_in_the_sky]

No one actually knows whay exactly was filed with the CIRB, and we won't know until it is all over. So a common employer may have been part of it...

We will all know soon enough.

Speak to your reps. No common employer is currently filed.

Your reps have not even been remotely honest with you about proceedings

I would give my reps more credibility over an anonymous forum on the web

[Cessna 180]

You know you guys could email the CIRB and they’ll gladly give you all the filings.

[truedude]

You know you guys could email the CIRB and they’ll gladly give you all the filings.

Only once it is settled will they provide anything. Until then only those party to the proceedings have access.

[Nick678]

You know you guys could email the CIRB and they’ll gladly give you all the filings.

Only once it is settled will they provide anything. Until then only those party to the proceedings have access.

Any idea when the next scheduled meeting is?

[Inverted2]

You know you guys could email the CIRB and they’ll gladly give you all the filings.

Only once it is settled will they provide anything. Until then only those party to the proceedings have access.

Any idea when the next scheduled meeting is?

Probably August or early September where they can discuss when to schedule the October meeting.

[genetic jack hammer]

Only once it is settled will they provide anything. Until then only those party to the proceedings have access.

Any idea when the next scheduled meeting is?

Probably August or early September where they can discuss when to schedule the October meeting.

What year?

[twa22]

Any idea when the next scheduled meeting is?

Probably August or early September where they can discuss when to schedule the October meeting.

What year?

2035 when the new contract is due

[Man_in_the_sky]

Probably August or early September where they can discuss when to schedule the October meeting.

What year?

2035 when the new contract is due

Side note

Anyone know how to ban those D’Mello scam ad ?

People looking over my should think i need advice from someone who failed his upgrade…

[Canoehead]

https://getadblock.com/en/

[hithere]

What year?

2035 when the new contract is due

Side note

Anyone know how to ban those D’Mello scam ad ?

People looking over my should think i need advice from someone who failed his upgrade…

So he failed his upgrade but he is still offering (for a fee) “career advice”? Unbelievable. I guess in his mind the mere fact that he is an Air Canada pilot justifies the fee. He was an RJ Captain at Jazz years ago before he left for AC. I wonder if his constant self promotion on YouTube as some sort of aviation career wizard kind of soured him to the AC training department in his upgrade attempt. What he was doing was not enough to get him fired but certainly enough for everyone at AC to think he was a tool. To bad he never considered the age old career advice of keeping a low profile until your upgrade is complete.

[cdnavater]

Latest update, confirms AC ALPA has been given intervenor status, mentions early October written submissions and decision October 31.
Also, mentions very little movement from AC or Jazz management despite the fact the end goal would essentially entice experienced pilots to Jazz, sounds like it’s too expensive for them

“As a reminder, our complaint is that the employers, Jazz Aviation LP and Air Canada, interfered with our representation of our members and the bargaining rights of our trade union by engaging in certain conduct. This conduct includes repeated and deliberate interference in the 60% hiring provisions of our collective agreement and the CPA, interference in collective bargaining for MOS-7, and transfer of flying to PAL Airlines even though a specific period of exclusivity with respect to that flying underpinned past collective bargaining agreements”

“All said, we remain in a difficult position. To date, we have not seen a lot of movement from the other parties. We are somewhat surprised with their lack of commitment in exploring retroactive and proactive solutions, as legal proceedings introduce uncertainty for all. The actions and inactions of the other parties have had a significant negative impact on us. The result is felt directly by Jazz Pilots; we remain hundreds of Captains understaffed and thousands of block-hours below collective agreement minimums. This ultimately impacts pairing quality, inefficient schedules, high blocks with less days off, high number of First Officers on reserve, and many other direct and indirect consequences. A resolution to the harm that precipitated the ULP is necessary to remedy these impacts.“