Flight Attendant strike vote opens on July 28th

[daedalusx]

When the majority of flights out west are late due to airport construction and lack of ATC staffing then perhaps 50% ground pay isn’t such a bad idea…

[altiplano]

In typical fashion both the Employer and CUPE are busy telling half-truths.

The "unpaid work" banner has certainly resonated with the public, but the truth is a different story. FA hourly pay is calculated to compensate for the so-called unpaid work, top pay is currently $85 / hour which takes many AC FA's to over 100K / year. Which is more than Teachers and a large segment of nurses, for a job that has zero prerequisites.

Starting pay is definitely low but most Pilots first job pays even less and no one gives you a nice uniform with the ability to enjoy Happy Hour in Yale Town.

Being a FA is not a $85 / hour straight time job. What other job can you roll into out of High School, work your way to a six figure salary with a pension and a generous benefit package.

AC Pilots are paid the exact same way, break release to break set, which is largely industry standard.

I am all for an inflationary raise but the the AC FA's expectations are unrealistic.

Agreed. Nurses don't get paid $80/hr. They work shifts. They are truly a safety critical position. They require a 4 year science degree, plus nursing school as a minimum, most have more. So why should an unskilled FA get paid that sort of rate?

If they want time at work check in to check out all paid it's a $25-35/hr job and they can join the masses and work 40hrs/week.

[Tbayer2021]

In typical fashion both the Employer and CUPE are busy telling half-truths.

The "unpaid work" banner has certainly resonated with the public, but the truth is a different story. FA hourly pay is calculated to compensate for the so-called unpaid work, top pay is currently $85 / hour which takes many AC FA's to over 100K / year. Which is more than Teachers and a large segment of nurses, for a job that has zero prerequisites.

Starting pay is definitely low but most Pilots first job pays even less and no one gives you a nice uniform with the ability to enjoy Happy Hour in Yale Town.

Being a FA is not a $85 / hour straight time job. What other job can you roll into out of High School, work your way to a six figure salary with a pension and a generous benefit package.

AC Pilots are paid the exact same way, break release to break set, which is largely industry standard.

I am all for an inflationary raise but the the AC FA's expectations are unrealistic.

Agreed. Nurses don't get paid $80/hr. They work shifts. They are truly a safety critical position. They require a 4 year science degree, plus nursing school as a minimum, most have more. So why should an unskilled FA get paid that sort of rate?

If they want time at work check in to check out all paid it's a $25-35/hr job and they can join the masses and work 40hrs/week.

I've always found it odd that when this logic is used, the conclusion is never that the higher paid profession should actually be paid even higher. But that the lower paid ones should just STFU. Nurses should be paid way more than $80/hr for what they do.

[Me262]

When the majority of flights out west are late due to airport construction and lack of ATC staffing then perhaps 50% ground pay isn’t such a bad idea…

We should get paid block hour AND 50% for all duty from check-in to check-out (that is not paid under the block hour).

[Stu Pidasso]

In typical fashion both the Employer and CUPE are busy telling half-truths.

The "unpaid work" banner has certainly resonated with the public, but the truth is a different story. FA hourly pay is calculated to compensate for the so-called unpaid work, top pay is currently $85 / hour which takes many AC FA's to over 100K / year. Which is more than Teachers and a large segment of nurses, for a job that has zero prerequisites.

Starting pay is definitely low but most Pilots first job pays even less and no one gives you a nice uniform with the ability to enjoy Happy Hour in Yale Town.

Being a FA is not a $85 / hour straight time job. What other job can you roll into out of High School, work your way to a six figure salary with a pension and a generous benefit package.

AC Pilots are paid the exact same way, break release to break set, which is largely industry standard.

I am all for an inflationary raise but the the AC FA's expectations are unrealistic.

What a bunch of bull! Maybe the way we are all compensated should be overhauled, with being paid our rate 30 min before a passenger sets foot on a plane.

Industry standard simply means resistant to change. And this Industry lives in the dark ages, and asks a lot of sacrifice of everyone in it, from time away from family, long days etc. It is time for a change and to drag this Industry into the 3rd decade of the 21st century, not the 1950's it refuses to leave.

Change the pay structure any way you like, you can get paid from check-in to check-out at say $60 / hour and your T4 (that is all that really matters) stays the same. This smoke and mirrors campaign is laughable.

If the time away from family and long days are too much for you, maybe you are in the wrong line of work?

[GIVCE!]

Just maybe Stu, just maybe…things might change. For the better…CUPE are certainly playing their cards correctly, imo.

[The Brantford Boomer]

YOU TELL EM STUART. IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR JOB JUST GET ANOTHER ONE. EZ PZ

[Stu Pidasso]

Time will tell GIVCE! but the T4 is the only real measure. To think they are going to get their current hourly wage (or the expected increased rate) from Check-in to Check-out is not going to happen.

Talk to your neighbors if they think 100K / year is a pretty good salary, it puts you in the top 20% of income earners nationwide.

Oh.....for a job that has the same requirements as working at Tim Hortons or Starbucks.

[TalkingPie]

What a weird time and place for people in a profession that requires no degree and tops out at >$300k to tell their colleagues in a profession that requires no degree that they don't deserve $100k.

[Stu Pidasso]

Bad news TalkingPie, being a FA is not a profession.

[cdnavater]

What a weird time and place for people in a profession that requires no degree and tops out at >$300k to tell their colleagues in a profession that requires no degree that they don't deserve $100k.

Nobody said anything about a degree, no prerequisites or same qualifications as a Starbucks or Tim Hortons employee was mentioned, which is 100% true. They certainly should make a living wage but under no situation should they be making more than the pilot up front, top FA wage should be less than bottom FO PERIOD!
And if you really want to know how the FAs feel about pilots, go listen to the FA press conference, shortly before the CUPE president does his speech, a question was asked about if the company treats FAs and Pilots differently, second class and lower pass travel priority was mentioned amongst other things!

[Dry Guy]

What a weird time and place for people in a profession that requires no degree and tops out at >$300k to tell their colleagues in a profession that requires no degree that they don't deserve $100k.

They are a tiny minority in my experience and they are all over 60. That said if you want continued pilot support I would refrain from attacking back as it will only sow more division. Seeing your CUPE rep on TV saying pilots earn more because they are mostly males and FAs are mostly females was very disheartening. We're in this together against the corporations not against each other. Everyone deserves a raise.

[truedude]

Bad news TalkingPie, being a FA is not a profession.

That's just ignorant and arrogant. Especially for an airline like AC which prides itself on its first class service and offerings. And 100k isn’t what it used to be, especially when living in YVR or YYZ. And the bottom end isnt anywhere near that.

But I also agree, no FO should be paid less than any FA.

[sportingrifle]

By definition, if you earn money doing something, you are doing it professionally. You can be a professional dog shit collector.

By contrast, a profession is generally considered to be self governing. Doctors, engineers, nurses, lawyers, etc. Both pilots and flight attendants are not. We don’t answer to a professional body. While the pilots answer to the company, due to our licenses, we ultimately answer to TC. The flight attendants being unlicensed, don’t. They only answer to the company as an employee, doing a job.

While I am extremely supportive of the flight attendants in this fight, comparing themselves to pilots is going to put a spotlight on the relative skills, experience, training, and above all responsibilities that each job requires. Right about now that is exactly what the company would love to see in the media.

[digits_]

What a weird time and place for people in a profession that requires no degree and tops out at >$300k to tell their colleagues in a profession that requires no degree that they don't deserve $100k.

Exactly this. Meanwhile ignoring that junior crew members make less than minimum wage...

[digits_]

Good job to everyone letting the liberals in power after 10 years of making this country into a shithole.

It could really matter less who is in power. Did you forget it was a Conservative Government that was in power that used legislation to prevent strike action and impose the 10 year collective agreement in the first place? They are all the same. When in opposition they will act one way and as soon as they get power they do as they please.

It’s all so tiresome…

Yup. And getting more extreme every day. We're heading towards US style politics if we're not careful.

Spoiler alert: no political party is inherently good or evil.

[TalkingPie]

By definition, if you earn money doing something, you are doing it professionally. You can be a professional dog shit collector.

By contrast, a profession is generally considered to be self governing. Doctors, engineers, nurses, lawyers, etc. Both pilots and flight attendants are not. We don’t answer to a proffesional body. While the pilots answer to the company, due to our licenses, we ultimately answer to TC. The flight attendants being unlicensed, don’t. They only answer to the company.

While I am extremely supportive of the flight attendants in this fight, comparing themselves to pilots is going to put a spotlight on the relative skills, experience, training, and above all responsibilities that each job requires. Fight about now that is exactly what the company would love to see in the media.

That's all very reasonable. Thankfully, I haven't seen the focus of these proceedings to be about trying to match the pilots' increases dollar-for-dollar - even if there is a fringe of people who decided to go there - because that would be unreasonable. As a percentage might make a lot more sense, especially since even a 50% raise would barely raise a junior FA's pay above the federal minimum wage. And of course we all understand that in actual dollars, 40% of a flight attendant's salary is less than 40% of a pilot's salary.

I'm just kind of wondering what would motivate someone to come into a thread that's about their colleagues' current contract negotiations - negotiations which are very similar to what they themselves recently went through - and punching down to try to demean them for wanting to improve their deal. Thankfully, most of us have enough other things to think about to bother dwelling on it. At the end of the day we're all on the same team, even if doing different work.

[daedalusx]

Absolute bucket of crab mentality.
It’s sickening to see professionals punching down on their colleagues during the most critical phase of their negos.

[fixnfly]

Bad news TalkingPie, being a FA is not a profession.

That's just ignorant and arrogant. Especially for an airline like AC which prides itself on its first class service and offerings. And 100k isn’t what it used to be, especially when living in YVR or YYZ. And the bottom end isnt anywhere near that.

But I also agree, no FO should be paid less than any FA.

+1
Making $60,000 which was a reasonable salary in 2001 is equivalent to about $100,000 today. Our dollar has been so devalued that $100k is the new standard for middle class income and I think it is completely reasonable for a top scale Service Director to make that. It also means that paying entry level 777 FOs $80,000 to start at AC is still far below what they should be compensated and should be addressed in future negotiating.

[truedude]

Bad news TalkingPie, being a FA is not a profession.

That's just ignorant and arrogant. Especially for an airline like AC which prides itself on its first class service and offerings. And 100k isn’t what it used to be, especially when living in YVR or YYZ. And the bottom end isnt anywhere near that.

But I also agree, no FO should be paid less than any FA.

+1
Making $60,000 which was a reasonable salary in 2001 is equivalent to about $100,000 today. Our dollar has been so devalued that $100k is the new standard for middle class income and I think it is completely reasonable for a top scale Service Director to make that. It also means that paying entry level 777 FOs $80,000 to start at AC is still far below what they should be compensated and should be addressed in future negotiating.

100% agree!

[Mac08]

By definition, if you earn money doing something, you are doing it professionally. You can be a professional dog shit collector.

By contrast, a profession is generally considered to be self governing. Doctors, engineers, nurses, lawyers, etc. Both pilots and flight attendants are not. We don’t answer to a proffesional body. While the pilots answer to the company, due to our licenses, we ultimately answer to TC. The flight attendants being unlicensed, don’t. They only answer to the company.

While I am extremely supportive of the flight attendants in this fight, comparing themselves to pilots is going to put a spotlight on the relative skills, experience, training, and above all responsibilities that each job requires. Fight about now that is exactly what the company would love to see in the media.

That's all very reasonable. Thankfully, I haven't seen the focus of these proceedings to be about trying to match the pilots' increases dollar-for-dollar - even if there is a fringe of people who decided to go there - because that would be unreasonable. As a percentage might make a lot more sense, especially since even a 50% raise would barely raise a junior FA's pay above the federal minimum wage. And of course we all understand that in actual dollars, 40% of a flight attendant's salary is less than 40% of a pilot's salary.

I'm just kind of wondering what would motivate someone to come into a thread that's about their colleagues' current contract negotiations - negotiations which are very similar to what they themselves recently went through - and punching down to try to demean them for wanting to improve their deal. Thankfully, most of us have enough other things to think about to bother dwelling on it. At the end of the day we're all on the same team, even if doing different work.

Don’t mind altiplano, he’s just some cranky ass 737 captain no one wants to fly with. That and he’s still mad an FA screwed the FO instead of him on a layover.

[sportingrifle]

They were doing so well until this…
https://cupe.ca/air-canada-reinforcing- ... them-do-it

[sportingrifle]

They were doing so well until this…
https://cupe.ca/air-canada-reinforcing- ... them-do-it

[gqra]

They were doing so well until this…
https://cupe.ca/air-canada-reinforcing- ... them-do-it

I'm pretty sure there is nothing factually incorrect about that. Don't worry though, you dont need to tell me, I know that they are not the same job. I think the whole point is that we are supposed to be supporting each other and not dragging each other down.

And this isn't unique to aircrew or the airline industry, look at the last few section 107 referrals. Working people need to start standing up for each other and not disparaging their colleagues.

The "it was bad for me so it should also be bad for you" mentality seems to be going away slowly but it can't go quick enough!!!

[Me262]

They were doing so well until this…
https://cupe.ca/air-canada-reinforcing- ... them-do-it

This is disgusting