Recall of MEC Chair & Vice Chair

[altiplano]

Fuckin shills.

You clearly can't comprehend the difference in the playing field now vs last summer. Totally different political and economic dynamics.

Plus it's flight attendants, not pilots.

[Daniel Cooper]

Now this is peak leverage.

[Canadianpilot2024]

[quote][/quote]Bargaining Committee Update - 44
The Company reached out to the Component President today, and we moved forward in our continued attempts to reach a fair deal.
The Union is currently in meetings with Air Canada, with the assistance of Mediator William Kaplan, in Toronto.
These meetings started this evening, and we will keep everyone posted on how they move forward.
At this time, the strike is still on, and the talks have just commenced.
In solidarity,
Your Bargaining Committee[quote][/quote]

“This is what max leverage looks like”

[cdnavater]

Bargaining Committee Update - 44
The Company reached out to the Component President today, and we moved forward in our continued attempts to reach a fair deal.
The Union is currently in meetings with Air Canada, with the assistance of Mediator William Kaplan, in Toronto.
These meetings started this evening, and we will keep everyone posted on how they move forward.
At this time, the strike is still on, and the talks have just commenced.
In solidarity,
Your Bargaining Committee

“This is what max leverage looks like”

Things is, CUPE is backing the 10,000 FAs because of the ramifications to the other 240,000 CUPE members in Canada, there could be heavy fines leveled and someone needs to pay them.
I don’t know if ALPA would offer to defy a CIRB order and cover the potential fines, I for one sure am glad the FAs are doing this!

[redbusdriver]

Lots of clear examples from above posters of why pilots are spinless, whiney, backstabbers. It takes flight attendants to do the job that the pilots, who, if had any sort of dignity, self respect, and unity would've done last year. Maybe the FAs are the ones who should be making the big bucks over the pilots, because they certainly have the bigger balls. But go ahead, make up some excuse of why you think that we pilots deserve less than our counterparts in the US, and the whole "world class contract", but we'll get 'em next time. We've become nothing but jokes and lackeys to management, whereas we can be easily manipulated and controlled. The sooner you lot realize and accept that, the sooner we can get back on track. I'm not hold my breath by the looks of it. You all dug your graves, so enjoy the trough filled shit you dug.

[thepoors]

Lots of clear examples from above posters of why pilots are spinless, whiney, backstabbers. It takes flight attendants to do the job that the pilots, who, if had any sort of dignity, self respect, and unity would've done last year. Maybe the FAs are the ones who should be making the big bucks over the pilots, because they certainly have the bigger balls. But go ahead, make up some excuse of why you think that we pilots deserve less than our counterparts in the US, and the whole "world class contract", but we'll get 'em next time. We've become nothing but jokes and lackeys to management, whereas we can be easily manipulated and controlled. The sooner you lot realize and accept that, the sooner we can get back on track. I'm not hold my breath by the looks of it. You all dug your graves, so enjoy the trough filled shit you dug.

+1

I would like to think lessons have been learned but I also don't have high hopes. We have seen CUPE do more for AC employees in 3 days than ALPA has in 3 years. We saw a union president demonstrate real leadership and courage to inspire his members and assure them they wouldn't be quit on as soon as things got tough. If we ever got that far, would ALPA have defied a back to work order.. under arguably more favourable economic and political conditions? I highly doubt it. Because it is a weak union with weak leadership, and that translates to a membership with a perpetual loser mentality.

If it wasn't clear enough already, we also had an outright admission by the CEO that section 107 was always their one and only game plan. We should be equal parts grateful and embarrassed. Grateful that the brave co-workers we share our airplanes with exposed this crooked management and tyrannical government. Showing strength when it really counted and upholding what all unions should be fighting for. Embarrassed that we failed so badly to set an example when we had the chance. That we are members of a union that doesn't have the guts to follow through on what's right.

[cdnavater]

Lots of clear examples from above posters of why pilots are spinless, whiney, backstabbers. It takes flight attendants to do the job that the pilots, who, if had any sort of dignity, self respect, and unity would've done last year. Maybe the FAs are the ones who should be making the big bucks over the pilots, because they certainly have the bigger balls. But go ahead, make up some excuse of why you think that we pilots deserve less than our counterparts in the US, and the whole "world class contract", but we'll get 'em next time. We've become nothing but jokes and lackeys to management, whereas we can be easily manipulated and controlled. The sooner you lot realize and accept that, the sooner we can get back on track. I'm not hold my breath by the looks of it. You all dug your graves, so enjoy the trough filled shit you dug.

+1

I would like to think lessons have been learned but I also don't have high hopes. We have seen CUPE do more for AC employees in 3 days than ALPA has in 3 years. We saw a union president demonstrate real leadership and courage to inspire his members and assure them they wouldn't be quit on as soon as things got tough. If we ever got that far, would ALPA have defied a back to work order.. under arguably more favourable economic and political conditions? I highly doubt it. Because it is a weak union with weak leadership, and that translates to a membership with a perpetual loser mentality.

If it wasn't clear enough already, we also had an outright admission by the CEO that section 107 was always their one and only game plan. We should be equal parts grateful and embarrassed. Grateful that the brave co-workers we share our airplanes with exposed this crooked management and tyrannical government. Showing strength when it really counted and upholding what all unions should be fighting for. Embarrassed that we failed so badly to set an example when we had the chance. That we are members of a union that doesn't have the guts to follow through on what's right.

Lessons learned absolutely but you are missing the big picture, the FA leadership would not have happened without the backing of CUPE national, I have no doubt they were told, in fact an email from their leadership indicated exactly this, they were willing to pay for any and all costs that came out of defying back to work. They were told they would pay any legal fees, etc..
Would they have offered to do this had it not been for the government interference over the last several years? Who knows, but fact remains if ALPA had made the same offer, you would have walked the picket line, so maybe we should be joining CUPE.
The union leadership, both local and national were risking arrest, if you were Charlene, would you risk being arrested and affecting the rest of your career because of that?

[daedalusx]

.
The union leadership, both local and national were risking arrest, if you were Charlene, would you risk being arrested and affecting the rest of your career because of that?

Yes.

[cdnavater]

.
The union leadership, both local and national were risking arrest, if you were Charlene, would you risk being arrested and affecting the rest of your career because of that?

Yes.

Well, I suggest you put your name forward for MEC Chair!
I would not risk arrest but I’m glad there are others who are willing, I also have to say, it’s great that a union sent the government a big FU! This will be a moment in history when someone stood up and said enough is enough, be sure to thank a flight attendant for their efforts!

[redbusdriver]

Turns out there was more money on the table. There is ALWAYS more money on the table. We'll get 'em next time... right?

[thepoors]

Lots of clear examples from above posters of why pilots are spinless, whiney, backstabbers. It takes flight attendants to do the job that the pilots, who, if had any sort of dignity, self respect, and unity would've done last year. Maybe the FAs are the ones who should be making the big bucks over the pilots, because they certainly have the bigger balls. But go ahead, make up some excuse of why you think that we pilots deserve less than our counterparts in the US, and the whole "world class contract", but we'll get 'em next time. We've become nothing but jokes and lackeys to management, whereas we can be easily manipulated and controlled. The sooner you lot realize and accept that, the sooner we can get back on track. I'm not hold my breath by the looks of it. You all dug your graves, so enjoy the trough filled shit you dug.

+1

I would like to think lessons have been learned but I also don't have high hopes. We have seen CUPE do more for AC employees in 3 days than ALPA has in 3 years. We saw a union president demonstrate real leadership and courage to inspire his members and assure them they wouldn't be quit on as soon as things got tough. If we ever got that far, would ALPA have defied a back to work order.. under arguably more favourable economic and political conditions? I highly doubt it. Because it is a weak union with weak leadership, and that translates to a membership with a perpetual loser mentality.

If it wasn't clear enough already, we also had an outright admission by the CEO that section 107 was always their one and only game plan. We should be equal parts grateful and embarrassed. Grateful that the brave co-workers we share our airplanes with exposed this crooked management and tyrannical government. Showing strength when it really counted and upholding what all unions should be fighting for. Embarrassed that we failed so badly to set an example when we had the chance. That we are members of a union that doesn't have the guts to follow through on what's right.

Lessons learned absolutely but you are missing the big picture, the FA leadership would not have happened without the backing of CUPE national, I have no doubt they were told, in fact an email from their leadership indicated exactly this, they were willing to pay for any and all costs that came out of defying back to work. They were told they would pay any legal fees, etc..
Would they have offered to do this had it not been for the government interference over the last several years? Who knows, but fact remains if ALPA had made the same offer, you would have walked the picket line, so maybe we should be joining CUPE.
The union leadership, both local and national were risking arrest, if you were Charlene, would you risk being arrested and affecting the rest of your career because of that?

If you're going to put your hand up and take on that position, that's what you should be prepared to do. She clearly wasn't and cracked under pressure.

I understand your point about CUPE national backing. The question is why didn't we have ALPA national backing? When I say weak leadership I'm talking about Tim Perry writing strongly worded emails instead of taking action and backing the MEC. They all sat around and watched things devolve while doing nothing. It's pathetic.

[sportingrifle]

ALPA are a very strike averse union-the last ALPA pilot strike was Spirit in 2011. I don’t see them supporting us in a legal strike, much less an illegal one. Especially if thete is a risk risk of damage awards depleting their bank accounts

[altiplano]

You don't get what you're worth, you get what you negotiate...

FAs do better than the pilots yet again.

[Man_in_the_sky]

+1

I would like to think lessons have been learned but I also don't have high hopes. We have seen CUPE do more for AC employees in 3 days than ALPA has in 3 years. We saw a union president demonstrate real leadership and courage to inspire his members and assure them they wouldn't be quit on as soon as things got tough. If we ever got that far, would ALPA have defied a back to work order.. under arguably more favourable economic and political conditions? I highly doubt it. Because it is a weak union with weak leadership, and that translates to a membership with a perpetual loser mentality.

If it wasn't clear enough already, we also had an outright admission by the CEO that section 107 was always their one and only game plan. We should be equal parts grateful and embarrassed. Grateful that the brave co-workers we share our airplanes with exposed this crooked management and tyrannical government. Showing strength when it really counted and upholding what all unions should be fighting for. Embarrassed that we failed so badly to set an example when we had the chance. That we are members of a union that doesn't have the guts to follow through on what's right.

Lessons learned absolutely but you are missing the big picture, the FA leadership would not have happened without the backing of CUPE national, I have no doubt they were told, in fact an email from their leadership indicated exactly this, they were willing to pay for any and all costs that came out of defying back to work. They were told they would pay any legal fees, etc..
Would they have offered to do this had it not been for the government interference over the last several years? Who knows, but fact remains if ALPA had made the same offer, you would have walked the picket line, so maybe we should be joining CUPE.
The union leadership, both local and national were risking arrest, if you were Charlene, would you risk being arrested and affecting the rest of your career because of that?

If you're going to put your hand up and take on that position, that's what you should be prepared to do. She clearly wasn't and cracked under pressure.

I understand your point about CUPE national backing. The question is why didn't we have ALPA national backing? When I say weak leadership I'm talking about Tim Perry writing strongly worded emails instead of taking action and backing the MEC. They all sat around and watched things devolve while doing nothing. It's pathetic.

What disgust me is, every other union supported CUPE on this, openly. But we had to hide any company badge ? can't show support of our own colleague while alberta teachers could ?!

what did I miss

[thepoors]

It gets to the point where you can't help but think there's something else going on.

Are ALPA such giant pussies that they really fear the company that much? (Which, from what we witnessed the past couple days, what is there to fear from these incompetent clowns?) Or has the legacy of corruption from the ACPA days just continued on? How many open grievances do we have right now on a 1 year old contract? How many articles remain unimplemented?

[IJNShiroyuki]

It gets to the point where you can't help but think there's something else going on.

Are ALPA such giant pussies that they really fear the company that much? (Which, from what we witnessed the past couple days, what is there to fear from these incompetent clowns?) Or has the legacy of corruption from the ACPA days just continued on? How many open grievances do we have right now on a 1 year old contract? How many articles remain unimplemented?

It makes you wonder. Westjet AMFA told westjet to @#$! off and got labour minister fired. CUPE got AC to admit section 107 is their plan all along. What is ALPA doing?

[Me262]

It gets to the point where you can't help but think there's something else going on.

Are ALPA such giant pussies that they really fear the company that much? (Which, from what we witnessed the past couple days, what is there to fear from these incompetent clowns?) Or has the legacy of corruption from the ACPA days just continued on? How many open grievances do we have right now on a 1 year old contract? How many articles remain unimplemented?

It makes you wonder. Westjet AMFA told westjet to @#$! off and got labour minister fired. CUPE got AC to admit section 107 is their plan all along. What is ALPA doing?

World class contract! Next time...

[AV80R]

What disgust me is, every other union supported CUPE on this, openly. But we had to hide any company badge ? can't show support of our own colleague while alberta teachers could ?!

The only communication we got about supporting our coworkers was to tell us to protect our own butts. All while the FAs were fighting the most important government overreach battle of our professional lives. A battle that will make the single greatest impact on our future ability to negotiate. The FAs just saved us so much future bargaining capital it's unreal, and all our union could do was to act pathetically selfish. It actually explains so much about how our own contract negotiations played out.

[Core]

I touched on this in another post, but I think ALPA Canada needs to nut up, in serious way. I just don't have confidence they are truly fighting for pilots, just fighting to grow their membership. This sentiment is growing as their fragility seems to be more exposed.

Every airline who joins ALPA has high hopes of vastly improved working conditions, and there's never a true change. Never. It happens over and over. They can provide a measure of job protection which is welcome, but beyond that in a negotiating capacity, I have concerns.
We saw the FA's give er. We saw the WJ AME's hand it to the company.

There are many really good people volunteering their time to help their fellow pilots, but does anyone here think Tim Perry, or any ALPA executive is willing to go to jail for their members like the support we just saw from Hancock? The results speak volumes.

[Dias]

Strength as a personal characteristic has been beaten out of us and labelled toxic. When's the last time there's been a strong political candidate for the Conservatives or the Liberals? I swear one Strongman could take over this entire country with ease.

[Bede]

I touched on this in another post, but I think ALPA Canada needs to nut up, in serious way. I just don't have confidence they are truly fighting for pilots, just fighting to grow their membership. This sentiment is growing as their fragility seems to be more exposed.

Every airline who joins ALPA has high hopes of vastly improved working conditions, and there's never a true change. Never. It happens over and over. They can provide a measure of job protection which is welcome, but beyond that in a negotiating capacity, I have concerns.
We saw the FA's give er. We saw the WJ AME's hand it to the company.

There are many really good people volunteering their time to help their fellow pilots, but does anyone here think Tim Perry, or any ALPA executive is willing to go to jail for their members like the support we just saw from Hancock? The results speak volumes.

Did not WJ ALPA and AC ALPA get bigger compensation increases than AC CUPE?

[Dias]

Were the "gains" more than 2002 plus inflation? Genuine question. I'm not sure they were.

[cdnavater]

Were the "gains" more than 2002 plus inflation? Genuine question. I'm not sure they were.

Not sure anyone, except maybe the executives have kept up with inflation since 2002(23 years ago)! What’s your point?

[twa22]

Were the "gains" more than 2002 plus inflation? Genuine question. I'm not sure they were.

Were the "gains" more than 2002 plus inflation? Genuine question. I'm not sure they were.

Not sure anyone, except maybe the executives have kept up with inflation since 2002(23 years ago)! What’s your point?

https://clarifycapital.com/how-jobs-values-have-changed

Mind you, this is in the US, and i'd take these numbers with a grain of salt... but apparently, US pilots have kept up and outpaced inflation, by the widest margin of any industry...

[thepoors]

Were the "gains" more than 2002 plus inflation? Genuine question. I'm not sure they were.

Not sure anyone, except maybe the executives have kept up with inflation since 2002(23 years ago)! What’s your point?

The point is that's not a raise. It's a pay cut. And that's not even taking into account the exponential cost of living increase that's occurred. Here's the 2003 pay scale if you need to do the math: