RCAF looking overseas to fill pilot shortage

[Sulako]

Welp I deleted almost an entire page of stuff that had nothing to do with the topic. I appreciate that people can be passionate about the topic but there's no need for personal attacks.

I totally appreciate the sacrifices that our military people make every day in service of Canada. My grandfather died serving in the RCAF, and some of the finest people I know have served in the Canadian military. I fervently hope that the right people are chosen to fill the roles offered - whomever they are - and that everyone serving in our military makes it home to their families at the end of their duty.

[confusedalot]

thank you very much for cleaning this up sulako. as stated, I did not do it for what can be termed "selfish" reasons because I did not want to fly a desk, however I have the utmost respect for the forces, and all that have served.

know a guy who is now retired. paratrooper who became a pilot, as stated before, chopper and f18, when the time came to do the desk thing, volunteered to go to bosnia on the ground.

you won't find many on this board who would do that.

so yes, as far as this thread is concerned, do find that the forces need to hire expats a rather unfortunate situation.

[Tanker299]

The Canadian Forces’ reliance on hiring foreign-trained pilots highlights a deeper issue: the role simply isn’t attractive enough to Canadians who already hold citizenship. For many abroad, Canadian citizenship itself carries significant value, but that should not be a recruitment draw. Instead, the CF needs to make service appealing and sustainable for those who are already here.

Pay should be restructured so that CF members receive tax-free compensation, bringing them more in line with competitive global rates of pay. The “old boys club” culture also needs to be dismantled, opening the door to modern, merit-based pathways. One such path would be the introduction of a flying warrant officer program and expanded opportunities for reserve service. Allowing well-qualified civilian pilots—airline pilots, forestry helicopter and fixed wing pilots, or others with proven experience—to serve part-time could immediately strengthen the ranks. Many already balance airline careers with reserve flying in other countries, and there’s no reason Canada shouldn’t follow suit.

The CF has already outsourced some training roles to civilian contractors, including basic fixed-wing instruction and advanced training programs. In the same way that doctors and nurses can serve part-time (and not re muster), the Forces should embrace the same flexibility for pilots. That approach would provide a stronger, homegrown pipeline of aviators while reducing dependence on foreign recruitment.

[newlygrounded]

The Canadian Forces’ reliance on hiring foreign-trained pilots highlights a deeper issue: the role simply isn’t attractive enough to Canadians who already hold citizenship. For many abroad, Canadian citizenship itself carries significant value, but that should not be a recruitment draw. Instead, the CF needs to make service appealing and sustainable for those who are already here.

Pay should be restructured so that CF members receive tax-free compensation, bringing them more in line with competitive global rates of pay. The “old boys club” culture also needs to be dismantled, opening the door to modern, merit-based pathways. One such path would be the introduction of a flying warrant officer program and expanded opportunities for reserve service. Allowing well-qualified civilian pilots—airline pilots, forestry helicopter and fixed wing pilots, or others with proven experience—to serve part-time could immediately strengthen the ranks. Many already balance airline careers with reserve flying in other countries, and there’s no reason Canada shouldn’t follow suit.

The CF has already outsourced some training roles to civilian contractors, including basic fixed-wing instruction and advanced training programs. In the same way that doctors and nurses can serve part-time (and not re muster), the Forces should embrace the same flexibility for pilots. That approach would provide a stronger, homegrown pipeline of aviators while reducing dependence on foreign recruitment.

Don't get why we can't have our version of the civil air patrol

[confusedalot]

for those in the know, is all of this based on some sort of nato exchange program, or are they actually thinking about hiring non canadians off of the street.

Can't seem to access the article either because a subscription is required or article is 4 years old.

[FishermanIvan]

I’ve been saying for years, if the RCAF wanted to staff pilots better, they’d open the Reserves to airline pilots for non-fighter roles.

AFAIK, in order to be a Reserve pilot, you have to have been an active duty pilot.

For Herks, C-17s, CC-330s…. None of that is necessary. Those are airliners, basically. You could pull in people with ATPLs to fly those, commission anyone with an ATPL as an officer, give them a condensed course in the tactical flying aspect of them, etc…. But you wouldn’t need to teach anyone like that to fly.

You could have deployment ready pilots on C-17s in under a year, I bet.

[Me262]

I’ve been saying for years, if the RCAF wanted to staff pilots better, they’d open the Reserves to airline pilots for non-fighter roles.

AFAIK, in order to be a Reserve pilot, you have to have been an active duty pilot.

For Herks, C-17s, CC-330s…. None of that is necessary. Those are airliners, basically. You could pull in people with ATPLs to fly those, commission anyone with an ATPL as an officer, give them a condensed course in the tactical flying aspect of them, etc…. But you wouldn’t need to teach anyone like that to fly.

You could have deployment ready pilots on C-17s in under a year, I bet.

LOL. no. Absolutely not for a C17. Have you flown one? Are you aware what they do? Are you familiar with "unlimited liability"?

I could see it maybe for the Challenger or Polaris for domestic ops, but definitely not for tactical fixed wing, CP140, CC130H/J or C177. I doubt SAR would be viable for an airline pilot as well.

[Outlaw58]

I’ve been saying for years, if the RCAF wanted to staff pilots better, they’d open the Reserves to airline pilots for non-fighter roles.

AFAIK, in order to be a Reserve pilot, you have to have been an active duty pilot.

For Herks, C-17s, CC-330s…. None of that is necessary. Those are airliners, basically. You could pull in people with ATPLs to fly those, commission anyone with an ATPL as an officer, give them a condensed course in the tactical flying aspect of them, etc…. But you wouldn’t need to teach anyone like that to fly.

You could have deployment ready pilots on C-17s in under a year, I bet.

Ok...

36 years in the RCAF here.

There are a few false ideas that need to be corrected.

1) Foreign pilot recruiting: These have been opportunities that arose in time where foreign countries were reducing the number of their pilots. Canada, just like other countries looking to add experience and qualifications to their roster invited these pilots to join our ranks. You do not get what these pilots bring "off the street"

2) Reserves: Canada and the US are vastly different in how the employ reserve. In Canada, the vast majority of the military force is in the REG Force augmented by the Reserves. In the US, it's the opposite where the majority of military personnel is in the Res Force where the REG force covers permanent positions.

You can't apply to the US model to Canada without a major overhaul of the recruiting and training process. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked at, just that it involves a lot more than "just open up the reserves to civilian pilots".

Also, as it was pointed out, jumping in a C-17 or a Herc involves a helluva lot more than just flying from point A to point B. In the CF, you don't just fly your plane, you fight with it. Flying an IFR route from point A to B is just one of the many qualifications a military pilot has.

Furthermore, there are no shortages of transport pilots in the CF. When you consider that roughly 65-70% of the military cockpits are rotary wing, and another 15-20% are Fighter Force/Long Range Patrol/Training, the number of Globemaster, Polaris, Kingfisher, Challenger, Gonzos and Hercules (Transport/SAR) are very limited and de facto sought out. No shortage of military pilots looking for opportunity to move to these platforms.

What the CF need is pilots that have no issues with long and frequent deployment such as in Fighters, Tac Hel and Maritime Helicopters. These 3 community comprise way more than half of the pilot cockpit positions. Unfortunately, due to some defining changes that occurred in the early 90s, namely requiring a degree to become on officer (was not required for operational trades back then) and by extension removing the OCTP recruiting route, coupled with contracting out pilot training, the age average of the military pilot group has increased significantly.

This means that pilots joining the CF are no longer the younger single kids, they are further along in life with spouses and kids. Military pilots joining are no longer looking for an adventure, they are looking for a place to grow roots. The airlines would not be my go to place to find pilots looking for an adventure, like deploying overseas for up to 6 months flying an F-18, a Griffon or a Cyclone. This is the challenge the RCAF faces, not finding C-17 pilots. That's easy.

Needless to say that the issue is vastly more complex but this is a simple I could make it for this forum.

58

[Jean-Pierre]

It's a good stepping stone to get to Air Canada for foreign military pilot. They're were several foreign air force pilot in my class at AC.

[Me262]

Not to mention that this thread was started in 2021 and since then, the AOO trade was introduced. That alleviated by a good margin the shortage. Hiring airline pilots that hand fly their airplane the first and last 500ft on a stable approach (if that) is definitely not viable.

[tsgarp]

I’ve been saying for years, if the RCAF wanted to staff pilots better, they’d open the Reserves to airline pilots for non-fighter roles.

AFAIK, in order to be a Reserve pilot, you have to have been an active duty pilot.

For Herks, C-17s, CC-330s…. None of that is necessary. Those are airliners, basically. You could pull in people with ATPLs to fly those, commission anyone with an ATPL as an officer, give them a condensed course in the tactical flying aspect of them, etc…. But you wouldn’t need to teach anyone like that to fly.

You could have deployment ready pilots on C-17s in under a year, I bet.

No. Airlines do not fly low level formation air drop, nor do they get shot at. Hercs, C17s and Huskies do. The only thing an off the street civilian ATPL could do with a military aircraft is ferry it somewhere.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I’ve been saying for years, if the RCAF wanted to staff pilots better, they’d open the Reserves to airline pilots for non-fighter roles.

AFAIK, in order to be a Reserve pilot, you have to have been an active duty pilot.

For Herks, C-17s, CC-330s…. None of that is necessary. Those are airliners, basically. You could pull in people with ATPLs to fly those, commission anyone with an ATPL as an officer, give them a condensed course in the tactical flying aspect of them, etc…. But you wouldn’t need to teach anyone like that to fly.

You could have deployment ready pilots on C-17s in under a year, I bet.

Ok...

36 years in the RCAF here.

There are a few false ideas that need to be corrected.

1) Foreign pilot recruiting: These have been opportunities that arose in time where foreign countries were reducing the number of their pilots. Canada, just like other countries looking to add experience and qualifications to their roster invited these pilots to join our ranks. You do not get what these pilots bring "off the street"

2) Reserves: Canada and the US are vastly different in how the employ reserve. In Canada, the vast majority of the military force is in the REG Force augmented by the Reserves. In the US, it's the opposite where the majority of military personnel is in the Res Force where the REG force covers permanent positions.

You can't apply to the US model to Canada without a major overhaul of the recruiting and training process. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked at, just that it involves a lot more than "just open up the reserves to civilian pilots".

Also, as it was pointed out, jumping in a C-17 or a Herc involves a helluva lot more than just flying from point A to point B. In the CF, you don't just fly your plane, you fight with it. Flying an IFR route from point A to B is just one of the many qualifications a military pilot has.

Furthermore, there are no shortages of transport pilots in the CF. When you consider that roughly 65-70% of the military cockpits are rotary wing, and another 15-20% are Fighter Force/Long Range Patrol/Training, the number of Globemaster, Polaris, Kingfisher, Challenger, Gonzos and Hercules (Transport/SAR) are very limited and de facto sought out. No shortage of military pilots looking for opportunity to move to these platforms.

What the CF need is pilots that have no issues with long and frequent deployment such as in Fighters, Tac Hel and Maritime Helicopters. These 3 community comprise way more than half of the pilot cockpit positions. Unfortunately, due to some defining changes that occurred in the early 90s, namely requiring a degree to become on officer (was not required for operational trades back then) and by extension removing the OCTP recruiting route, coupled with contracting out pilot training, the age average of the military pilot group has increased significantly.

This means that pilots joining the CF are no longer the younger single kids, they are further along in life with spouses and kids. Military pilots joining are no longer looking for an adventure, they are looking for a place to grow roots. The airlines would not be my go to place to find pilots looking for an adventure, like deploying overseas for up to 6 months flying an F-18, a Griffon or a Cyclone. This is the challenge the RCAF faces, not finding C-17 pilots. That's easy.

Needless to say that the issue is vastly more complex but this is a simple I could make it for this forum.

58

Oooh-rah!

Let’s do pushups to show how awesome the military is! LETS GO!

Just tell me how to get to flying the PM around. I’ve always wondered if he secretly vapes in the lavs.

[confusedalot]

I’ve been saying for years, if the RCAF wanted to staff pilots better, they’d open the Reserves to airline pilots for non-fighter roles.

AFAIK, in order to be a Reserve pilot, you have to have been an active duty pilot.

For Herks, C-17s, CC-330s…. None of that is necessary. Those are airliners, basically. You could pull in people with ATPLs to fly those, commission anyone with an ATPL as an officer, give them a condensed course in the tactical flying aspect of them, etc…. But you wouldn’t need to teach anyone like that to fly.

You could have deployment ready pilots on C-17s in under a year, I bet.

Ok...

36 years in the RCAF here.

There are a few false ideas that need to be corrected.

1) Foreign pilot recruiting: These have been opportunities that arose in time where foreign countries were reducing the number of their pilots. Canada, just like other countries looking to add experience and qualifications to their roster invited these pilots to join our ranks. You do not get what these pilots bring "off the street"

2) Reserves: Canada and the US are vastly different in how the employ reserve. In Canada, the vast majority of the military force is in the REG Force augmented by the Reserves. In the US, it's the opposite where the majority of military personnel is in the Res Force where the REG force covers permanent positions.

You can't apply to the US model to Canada without a major overhaul of the recruiting and training process. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked at, just that it involves a lot more than "just open up the reserves to civilian pilots".

Also, as it was pointed out, jumping in a C-17 or a Herc involves a helluva lot more than just flying from point A to point B. In the CF, you don't just fly your plane, you fight with it. Flying an IFR route from point A to B is just one of the many qualifications a military pilot has.

Furthermore, there are no shortages of transport pilots in the CF. When you consider that roughly 65-70% of the military cockpits are rotary wing, and another 15-20% are Fighter Force/Long Range Patrol/Training, the number of Globemaster, Polaris, Kingfisher, Challenger, Gonzos and Hercules (Transport/SAR) are very limited and de facto sought out. No shortage of military pilots looking for opportunity to move to these platforms.

What the CF need is pilots that have no issues with long and frequent deployment such as in Fighters, Tac Hel and Maritime Helicopters. These 3 community comprise way more than half of the pilot cockpit positions. Unfortunately, due to some defining changes that occurred in the early 90s, namely requiring a degree to become on officer (was not required for operational trades back then) and by extension removing the OCTP recruiting route, coupled with contracting out pilot training, the age average of the military pilot group has increased significantly.

This means that pilots joining the CF are no longer the younger single kids, they are further along in life with spouses and kids. Military pilots joining are no longer looking for an adventure, they are looking for a place to grow roots. The airlines would not be my go to place to find pilots looking for an adventure, like deploying overseas for up to 6 months flying an F-18, a Griffon or a Cyclone. This is the challenge the RCAF faces, not finding C-17 pilots. That's easy.

Needless to say that the issue is vastly more complex but this is a simple I could make it for this forum.

58

thank you outlaw58 for the most informative post, never mind the rest.

[Tanker299]

This mentality that RCAF pilots are somehow “better than the rest” really needs to stop. The idea that civilian pilots can’t be trained to the same standard—or would be inherently subpar—is nonsense. The fact is, the very initial flight training where military pilots learn how to fly is delivered by civilian contractors. Even parts of the advanced training pipeline are outsourced the same way.

Total time isn’t everything, but seat time matters. A pilot with 5,000 hours in a Bell 412—especially in demanding operations like fire suppression—is, in most cases, going to be a stronger operator than someone with 500 hours, no matter the uniform. That “mythical low-level environment” the Air Force claims as unique is actually where many civilian pilots live: aerial fire suppression, crop dusting, and bush operations are all flown at treetop height under real-world pressure.

Look at the Skyhawks parachute demonstration team. They’ve now dropped the requirement for the CF jump course, and the team is stronger than ever—staffed by experienced canopy pilots with hundreds or thousands of jumps. Contrast that with the fact that, not long ago, the military had people taking civilians on tandem jumps with less than 100 jumps themselves. Civilian drop zones require a 500–1,000 jump minimum before anyone is allowed to strap another human to them. That should tell you something about where true expertise is built.

I’ve flown with plenty of military pilots. Some are excellent—but many are average, and a fair number carry themselves with more ego than experience. Airlines know it too: a uniform doesn’t guarantee a cockpit job, and “PFO” letters get handed out to Air Force résumés just the same.

At the end of the day, we’re all people. And in this sub-context, we’re all pilots. Skill comes from training, attitude, and experience—not the logo on the uniform.

[Sulako]

At the end of the day, we’re all people. And in this sub-context, we’re all pilots. Skill comes from training, attitude, and experience—not the logo on the uniform.

I agree with you. I have hired lots of ex-military personnel, and one thing I noticed is that they have all been respectful, open and honest about their skills and limitations. LIke, all of them. I heard a phrase a very long time ago that stuck with me; "Hire for personality, train for skill" and I think it is pretty valid. I'm not talking about flying skill right now, but over and over, when interacting with ex-military pilots I have seen an abundance of politeness and also a lot of attention to detail. Both of those things are pretty valuable, at least in the part of the aviation world that I inhabit. I'm sure there are always exceptions, but that has been my experience thus far.

[Outlaw58]

This mentality that RCAF pilots are somehow “better than the rest” really needs to stop. The idea that civilian pilots can’t be trained to the same standard—or would be inherently subpar—is nonsense. The fact is, the very initial flight training where military pilots learn how to fly is delivered by civilian contractors. Even parts of the advanced training pipeline are outsourced the same way.

Hey Tanker, I feel that this comment is directed at me. I definitely never meant that RCAF pilots are better than the rest.

What is different between civilian and military pilots is WHAT they are trained for, not to what standard. You will find that the common skillset between the two is much smaller than one might think.

Total time isn’t everything, but seat time matters. A pilot with 5,000 hours in a Bell 412—especially in demanding operations like fire suppression—is, in most cases, going to be a stronger operator than someone with 500 hours, no matter the uniform. That “mythical low-level environment” the Air Force claims as unique is actually where many civilian pilots live: aerial fire suppression, crop dusting, and bush operations are all flown at treetop height under real-world pressure.

Any experience is good experience, the more of it the better. But if that experience does not cover the right spectrum, then there still remains a need to level the field through training, or acquiring more "pertinent" experience. This is true for both the RCAF and the airlines.

Look at the Skyhawks parachute demonstration team. They’ve now dropped the requirement for the CF jump course, and the team is stronger than ever—staffed by experienced canopy pilots with hundreds or thousands of jumps. Contrast that with the fact that, not long ago, the military had people taking civilians on tandem jumps with less than 100 jumps themselves. Civilian drop zones require a 500–1,000 jump minimum before anyone is allowed to strap another human to them. That should tell you something about where true expertise is built.

Apples and oranges. (I am also a skydiver...)

What the Skyhawks are doing, is by a huge margin much closer to what Civilian Sport Parachutists are doing than what the military trains their "Airbornes" to do.

I’ve flown with plenty of military pilots. Some are excellent—but many are average, and a fair number carry themselves with more ego than experience. Airlines know it too: a uniform doesn’t guarantee a cockpit job, and “PFO” letters get handed out to Air Force résumés just the same.

Airlines and the RCAF are a cross-section of the general public. You will find all kinds in both outfits.

At the end of the day, we’re all people. And in this sub-context, we’re all pilots. Skill comes from training, attitude, and experience—not the logo on the uniform.

No arguments here.

58

[‘Bob’]

The problem with the RCAF is the insanely onerous requirements and training programs that simply aren’t required and definitely no longer necessary in the modern world. Especially given that lack of personnel threatens their very existence.

A Navajo flying into a northern reserve probably gets shot at more than the RCAF does. Aerial firefighting companies teach civilian pilots (including airlines) low level formation flying and drops inside of a few weeks, never mind years. And I bet they have more experience actually doing it after a season or two.

I know that the military loves this “we could tell you but then we’d have to kill you” mystique about their flying but as someone who’s had a varied career in all kinds of specialized flying the thing I found so remarkable about each one was how anticlimactic and boring they all were.

I’m 100% sure that flying a C-17 in formation and doing a low level drop in a hostile country that either doesn’t have or was sanitized of most AA defences would be something I could do in my sleep.

[confusedalot]

The problem with the RCAF is the insanely onerous requirements and training programs that simply aren’t required and definitely no longer necessary in the modern world. Especially given that lack of personnel threatens their very existence.

A Navajo flying into a northern reserve probably gets shot at more than the RCAF does. Aerial firefighting companies teach civilian pilots (including airlines) low level formation flying and drops inside of a few weeks, never mind years. And I bet they have more experience actually doing it after a season or two.

I know that the military loves this “we could tell you but then we’d have to kill you” mystique about their flying but as someone who’s had a varied career in all kinds of specialized flying the thing I found so remarkable about each one was how anticlimactic and boring they all were.

I’m 100% sure that flying a C-17 in formation and doing a low level drop in a hostile country that either doesn’t have or was sanitized of most AA defences would be something I could do in my sleep.

old and retired. did the big plane international thing, including foreign carriers. did the canadian failed airline thing, some of which had top class reputations. even did the horrible transport thing. in earlier years, did the northern stuff in the dark with crappy weather doing circling approaches on an adf approroach.

bored in retirement, just wanted to get out of the house. medevacs, not so bad, skydiving operations, holy sh!!t. formation doing drops, hardest thing I had done in my life.

do not underestimate the forces flying. never been there but was really close.

[Me262]

The problem with the RCAF is the insanely onerous requirements and training programs that simply aren’t required and definitely no longer necessary in the modern world. Especially given that lack of personnel threatens their very existence.

A Navajo flying into a northern reserve probably gets shot at more than the RCAF does. Aerial firefighting companies teach civilian pilots (including airlines) low level formation flying and drops inside of a few weeks, never mind years. And I bet they have more experience actually doing it after a season or two.

I know that the military loves this “we could tell you but then we’d have to kill you” mystique about their flying but as someone who’s had a varied career in all kinds of specialized flying the thing I found so remarkable about each one was how anticlimactic and boring they all were.

I’m 100% sure that flying a C-17 in formation and doing a low level drop in a hostile country that either doesn’t have or was sanitized of most AA defences would be something I could do in my sleep.

LOL

[Outlaw58]

The problem with the RCAF is the insanely onerous requirements and training programs that simply aren’t required and definitely no longer necessary in the modern world. Especially given that lack of personnel threatens their very existence.

A Navajo flying into a northern reserve probably gets shot at more than the RCAF does. Aerial firefighting companies teach civilian pilots (including airlines) low level formation flying and drops inside of a few weeks, never mind years. And I bet they have more experience actually doing it after a season or two.

I know that the military loves this “we could tell you but then we’d have to kill you” mystique about their flying but as someone who’s had a varied career in all kinds of specialized flying the thing I found so remarkable about each one was how anticlimactic and boring they all were.

I’m 100% sure that flying a C-17 in formation and doing a low level drop in a hostile country that either doesn’t have or was sanitized of most AA defences would be something I could do in my sleep.

THIS!

This is exactly why I don't usually bother responding to anything on avcanada. Serves me right to try to inform a group with actual relevant experience rather than spewing appealing but totally irrelevant non-sense.

So on that note, back in the hole I crawled out from.

58

[Me262]

The problem with the RCAF is the insanely onerous requirements and training programs that simply aren’t required and definitely no longer necessary in the modern world. Especially given that lack of personnel threatens their very existence.

A Navajo flying into a northern reserve probably gets shot at more than the RCAF does. Aerial firefighting companies teach civilian pilots (including airlines) low level formation flying and drops inside of a few weeks, never mind years. And I bet they have more experience actually doing it after a season or two.

I know that the military loves this “we could tell you but then we’d have to kill you” mystique about their flying but as someone who’s had a varied career in all kinds of specialized flying the thing I found so remarkable about each one was how anticlimactic and boring they all were.

I’m 100% sure that flying a C-17 in formation and doing a low level drop in a hostile country that either doesn’t have or was sanitized of most AA defences would be something I could do in my sleep.

THIS!

This is exactly why I don't usually bother responding to anything on avcanada. Serves me right to try to inform a group with actual relevant experience rather than spewing appealing but totally irrelevant non-sense.

So on that note, back in the hole I crawled out from.

58

But Bob probably has 15000hrs top notch experience. His flawless way of pressing the app button to arm the LOC and GS when cleared for the ILS would totally make him perfectly suited for the CC177 tactical descents or CP140 doing 60/2 1000' off the water and he could do them all in his sleep.

[careerpilot?]

The problem with the RCAF is the insanely onerous requirements and training programs that simply aren’t required and definitely no longer necessary in the modern world. Especially given that lack of personnel threatens their very existence.

A Navajo flying into a northern reserve probably gets shot at more than the RCAF does. Aerial firefighting companies teach civilian pilots (including airlines) low level formation flying and drops inside of a few weeks, never mind years. And I bet they have more experience actually doing it after a season or two.

I know that the military loves this “we could tell you but then we’d have to kill you” mystique about their flying but as someone who’s had a varied career in all kinds of specialized flying the thing I found so remarkable about each one was how anticlimactic and boring they all were.

I’m 100% sure that flying a C-17 in formation and doing a low level drop in a hostile country that either doesn’t have or was sanitized of most AA defences would be something I could do in my sleep.

THIS!

This is exactly why I don't usually bother responding to anything on avcanada. Serves me right to try to inform a group with actual relevant experience rather than spewing appealing but totally irrelevant non-sense.

So on that note, back in the hole I crawled out from.

58

This was my reaction exactly. I was about to hit reply, and I thought: Nope, this will violate my personal rule not to get in internet bung fights with the uninformed. So I kept scrolling. I'll reply to those I respect (hence my reply to you, 58)

I mean, tell me you know nothing about military flight ops without telling me you know nothing of military flight ops...

[Tanker299]

This mentality that RCAF pilots are somehow “better than the rest” really needs to stop. The idea that civilian pilots can’t be trained to the same standard—or would be inherently subpar—is nonsense. The fact is, the very initial flight training where military pilots learn how to fly is delivered by civilian contractors. Even parts of the advanced training pipeline are outsourced the same way.

Hey Tanker, I feel that this comment is directed at me. I definitely never meant that RCAF pilots are better than the rest.

What is different between civilian and military pilots is WHAT they are trained for, not to what standard. You will find that the common skillset between the two is much smaller than one might think.

Total time isn’t everything, but seat time matters. A pilot with 5,000 hours in a Bell 412—especially in demanding operations like fire suppression—is, in most cases, going to be a stronger operator than someone with 500 hours, no matter the uniform. That “mythical low-level environment” the Air Force claims as unique is actually where many civilian pilots live: aerial fire suppression, crop dusting, and bush operations are all flown at treetop height under real-world pressure.

Any experience is good experience, the more of it the better. But if that experience does not cover the right spectrum, then there still remains a need to level the field through training, or acquiring more "pertinent" experience. This is true for both the RCAF and the airlines.

Look at the Skyhawks parachute demonstration team. They’ve now dropped the requirement for the CF jump course, and the team is stronger than ever—staffed by experienced canopy pilots with hundreds or thousands of jumps. Contrast that with the fact that, not long ago, the military had people taking civilians on tandem jumps with less than 100 jumps themselves. Civilian drop zones require a 500–1,000 jump minimum before anyone is allowed to strap another human to them. That should tell you something about where true expertise is built.

Apples and oranges. (I am also a skydiver...)

What the Skyhawks are doing, is by a huge margin much closer to what Civilian Sport Parachutists are doing than what the military trains their "Airbornes" to do.

I’ve flown with plenty of military pilots. Some are excellent—but many are average, and a fair number carry themselves with more ego than experience. Airlines know it too: a uniform doesn’t guarantee a cockpit job, and “PFO” letters get handed out to Air Force résumés just the same.

Airlines and the RCAF are a cross-section of the general public. You will find all kinds in both outfits.

At the end of the day, we’re all people. And in this sub-context, we’re all pilots. Skill comes from training, attitude, and experience—not the logo on the uniform.

No arguments here.

58

My apologies 58. I did not mean to direct this at you specifically. Thank you for your service. I enjoyed my time in the CF to an extent. Once I got my jump wings I knew where I truly belonged, up in the sky.

[Chuck Yagermeister]

So again how is the Air Force reserve not an option in Canada? We already have the Army reserve which is very successful from what I've heard there are almost more reservists than reg force in the Army. Our neighbours to the south can have you flying your airline job of a 737 during the week and a F22 during the weekend doing training ex. As reservists you still require mil training and swearing allegiance to the crown, wouldn't it fill that gap that reg force pilots have left? Then again I doubt the CF is very forward thinking or would even entertain the thought of this. Stories from military friends explain how it takes almost a year for simple paperwork to move through the DoD for approval. I couldn't imagine something like this ever taking fruition under 5 maybe 10+ years.

[careerpilot?]

So again how is the Air Force reserve not an option in Canada? We already have the Army reserve which is very successful from what I've heard there are almost more reservists than reg force in the Army. Our neighbours to the south can have you flying your airline job of a 737 during the week and a F22 during the weekend doing training ex. As reservists you still require mil training and swearing allegiance to the crown, wouldn't it fill that gap that reg force pilots have left? Then again I doubt the CF is very forward thinking or would even entertain the thought of this. Stories from military friends explain how it takes almost a year for simple paperwork to move through the DoD for approval. I couldn't imagine something like this ever taking fruition under 5 maybe 10+ years.

Shortage of pilots in the RCAF isn’t a function of recruiting; the number of applicants still vastly outpaces the RCAF’s ability to intake and train them. This is one of the reasons the RCAF can be so selective.

This means even if we did open reserves to off the street hires, we couldn’t train them. The few available training slots need to go to the full timers who are already waiting years for their courses.

For ex regular force pilots who are already trained, the reserves are open and are an option. We have quite a few reservist pilots but they are all ex regular force (or sometimes transfers from other militaries).