Emirates after AC

[altiplano]

I didn't say or imply any of that.

You are saying that.

I answered a guy that apparently just got his commercial and is a new FI that said that spending money at Starbucks and on takeout was no big deal. I only pointed out the lost opportunity of that money and real future cost of those spending decisions. Is it going to buy a house? No. But it adds up quickly and the positive/negative effects can compound particularly when you're young and starting out and spending 10%+ of your pretax earnings on restaurants and snacks while maybe carrying debt.

Whoever you are, whatever your job, that's just a fact and I see people doing it all over as a new sort of accepted norm.

The rest is your pissing match, repeated circular argument and ad hominem attacks.

I acknowledged most of the significant challenges that are out there and tried to clear it up, maybe not perfectly, I used some sarcasm for sure. But posters at this point here are toxic and narrow minded, choose to ignore reason and continue to pile on. The level of offense taken and response is ridiculous. There used to be some reason on here, I can see that's long gone...

[MorePlates]

The issue is he's implying that if the younger generations made the sacrifices he believes he's made, they could afford the lifestyle they want. And that's blatantly not true. Cutting out Starbucks is a drop in the ocean when cost of housing is 10x income. It's not going to make any appreciable difference. Plus the implication that a pilot at the national flag carrier should have to cut out buying a morning coffee to be able to afford an average standard of living is adding insult to injury.

So he is demonstrating his out of touch ignorance two-fold:
1) "Pull up your bootstraps and stop buying avocado toast" mentality of no one wants to make "sacrifices" anymore. When in reality these younger generations have had to sacrifice far more than boomers and gen x.
2) AC pay and working conditions are "not that bad" and you could do worse, or leave if you don't like it. I.e. let's keep settling and allow the profession to keep slipping farther and farther from not only other countries but also what it once was in Canada.

You, sir, are one of the only sensible people on this forum. I’ll admit it, I completely misjudged you earlier.

So I'm curious, what’s it like working at AC? Is it another tent full of clowns like the ones running around here on AvCanada, or does real life come with a slightly higher standard?

[MorePlates]

I didn't say or imply any of that.

You are saying that.

I answered a guy that apparently just got his commercial and is a new FI that said that spending money at Starbucks and on takeout was no big deal. I only pointed out the lost opportunity of that money and real future cost of those spending decisions. Is it going to buy a house? No. But it adds up quickly and the positive/negative effects can compound particularly when you're young and starting out and spending 10%+ of your pretax earnings on restaurants and snacks while maybe carrying debt.

Whoever you are, whatever your job, that's just a fact and I see people doing it all over as a new sort of accepted norm.

The rest is your pissing match, repeated circular argument and ad hominem attacks.

I acknowledged most of the significant challenges that are out there and tried to clear it up, maybe not perfectly, I used some sarcasm for sure. But posters at this point here are toxic and narrow minded, choose to ignore reason and continue to pile on. The level of offense taken and response is ridiculous. There used to be some reason on here, I can see that's long gone...

My friend, should I send you a tissue box? All that crying during your little meltdown seems to have completely wiped out your sense of visibility.

I’m a FI making $18k a year. After rent, $350 in groceries, and gas, I’m left with nothing. So I have no idea how your imagination jumped to me burning $3k a year on coffee.

Anyway, let’s straighten you out, since you’re clearly allergic to sticking to your own words.

Maybe take a minute to look up the word ‘sarcasm’, because the fact that anyone genuinely thinks ditching coffee and takeout is the secret path to a house and two cars in this economy is honestly adorable in a painfully out-of-touch way.

Except it is...

Is it going to buy a house? No.

This is our very first conversation. I said cutting coffee and takeout doesn’t magically get you a house and two cars. You responded with a confident “Except it is…” followed by a bunch of nonsense. And now suddenly you’re admitting it won’t buy a house.

Honestly, I was thinking of following in your footsteps, scraping by until 50 and then spending my time having dramatic forum meltdowns. You seem to be fully committed to the bit, so I figured it must be a blast.

[altiplano]

"the house" is really a metaphor though, isn't it? a semblance of financial progress? and ditching that little shit is where it starts. and then it becomes your goals as other things line up. maybe it is a house? but it doesn't all roll through the door right away and it builds on the choices you make early.

$18K a year? you can't afford take out.

the bigger issue is toxicity. you continue to insult and argue with fallacy and if that's how you want to go through your life, you think that's great, well you have other issues to address. I'll admit that I was a bit sarcastic, even green fonted a bit... but dude, life is short and you're too young to get jaded and pissed off at a guy making some pretty benign suggestions. Jaded should come in a few more years yet.

Good luck.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

So I'm curious, what’s it like working at AC? Is it another tent full of clowns like the ones running around here on AvCanada, or does real life come with a slightly higher standard?

Once you get on the 777 it's great. The Captains are kind, chill, dudes that have nothing left to prove. It's the mid-seniority Captains that are sometimes the dregs. They are the ones that will talk down to you and demand your respect despite giving you little. You quickly realize they are projecting their own insecurities if you dare to question them. You know, the kind of guy that will bully a pilot making $18k a year when they make that in a month.

[Savage Poetry]

18k before taxes would be a very small month as an AC capt…. just saying

[rudder]

18k before taxes would be a very small month as an AC capt…. just saying

In the US, $20k is monthly ‘take home’ pay (after all deductions) for an NB CA. If you live in a tax free state, it is much more.

[Bede]

I’m a FI making $18k a year. After rent, $350 in groceries, and gas, I’m left with nothing.

I know of multiple FTU's that are paying pilots $50k + benefits in SALARY for new class 4's.

The reason pay is low in Canada is because pilots are WILLING to work for low wages. Nothing you get anywhere is because management is nice- not at AC, not at Emirates - it's because we're willing to walk away and demand better.

You don't get what you deserve - you get what you negotiate.

[cdnavater]

I’m a FI making $18k a year. After rent, $350 in groceries, and gas, I’m left with nothing.

I know of multiple FTU's that are paying pilots $50k + benefits in SALARY for new class 4's.

The reason pay is low in Canada is because pilots are WILLING to work for low wages. Nothing you get anywhere is because management is nice- not at AC, not at Emirates - it's because we're willing to walk away and demand better.

You don't get what you deserve - you get what you negotiate.

I was going to comment on accepting 18k in 2025, as I said before my first job was 18k, in 1990. That was considered normal back then but today is around 37k adjusted for inflation.
Working for 18k is deplorable these days, I can only hope this is part time weekend work, the current federal minimum wage is 17.30/hr. This equates to full time salary of 35,984.00 in a federally regulated business.
So, in a nutshell, this poster is helping to keep wages low by accepting these conditions and plans to leave for Dubai as soon as possible, I guess we can expect more bottom feeding activities from this guy to get where he’s heading!

[thepoors]

I’m a FI making $18k a year. After rent, $350 in groceries, and gas, I’m left with nothing.

I know of multiple FTU's that are paying pilots $50k + benefits in SALARY for new class 4's.

The reason pay is low in Canada is because pilots are WILLING to work for low wages. Nothing you get anywhere is because management is nice- not at AC, not at Emirates - it's because we're willing to walk away and demand better.

You don't get what you deserve - you get what you negotiate.

And ALPA is doing a stellar job of that, right Bede?

Except they can't even enforce the contract they ratified...

[MorePlates]

I know of multiple FTU's that are paying pilots $50k + benefits in SALARY for new class 4's.

The reason pay is low in Canada is because pilots are WILLING to work for low wages. Nothing you get anywhere is because management is nice- not at AC, not at Emirates - it's because we're willing to walk away and demand better.

You don't get what you deserve - you get what you negotiate.

Love it. Welcome back, Bede.

Funny how neither you nor your little sidekick who commented below you had anything to say about the actual points I made about your trash company, because you couldn’t. So you both swerved straight into personal shots instead. Don't worry I can set you both straight on that.

Yes, I make $18K, because I’m a part-time instructor finishing a four-year degree. Name one school in the Lower Mainland paying part-timers $50K+ with benefits, I’m all ears. You won’t. Most don’t even break $30/hr, and I still negotiated above that.

Meanwhile, you two went from holding pilot licences to doing ramp work, and then spent the better part of a decade just to crawl your way into a flat $40K pilot salary that barely covers rent. Then you end up standing next to Emirates crews who make you look like you’re unpaid interns. But sure, keep telling me how I’m the one who can’t negotiate.

Now, don't run away like you did before.

[MorePlates]

I was going to comment on accepting 18k in 2025, as I said before my first job was 18k, in 1990. That was considered normal back then but today is around 37k adjusted for inflation.
Working for 18k is deplorable these days, I can only hope this is part time weekend work, the current federal minimum wage is 17.30/hr. This equates to full time salary of 35,984.00 in a federally regulated business.
So, in a nutshell, this poster is helping to keep wages low by accepting these conditions and plans to leave for Dubai as soon as possible, I guess we can expect more bottom feeding activities from this guy to get where he’s heading!

Just got done with Bede, now it's your turn.

For what it’s worth, on my income alone, I could not buy the house I’m renting the basement of for my commute! It’s very close to the airport in YYZ!
So, 35 year career making by most standards a decent salary, top scale Jazz training pilot, I would still need to live a couple hour drive, so pardon me if I don’t feel too bad for the plight of the new hires.

Bottom feeding activities?

Are we talking about you now?

35 years in the industry and you’re still renting a basement just to make the commute work? So sad.

Yeah… I don’t think I need to say anything else.

[cdnavater]

I was going to comment on accepting 18k in 2025, as I said before my first job was 18k, in 1990. That was considered normal back then but today is around 37k adjusted for inflation.
Working for 18k is deplorable these days, I can only hope this is part time weekend work, the current federal minimum wage is 17.30/hr. This equates to full time salary of 35,984.00 in a federally regulated business.
So, in a nutshell, this poster is helping to keep wages low by accepting these conditions and plans to leave for Dubai as soon as possible, I guess we can expect more bottom feeding activities from this guy to get where he’s heading!

Just got done with Bede, now it's your turn.

For what it’s worth, on my income alone, I could not buy the house I’m renting the basement of for my commute! It’s very close to the airport in YYZ!
So, 35 year career making by most standards a decent salary, top scale Jazz training pilot, I would still need to live a couple hour drive, so pardon me if I don’t feel too bad for the plight of the new hires.

Bottom feeding activities?

Are we talking about you now?

35 years in the industry and you’re still renting a basement just to make the commute work? So sad.

Yeah… I don’t think I need to say anything else.

First of all, I’m glad to hear your 18k salary is for part time work, you absolutely weren’t clear on that at all! Your post was obviously misleading, whether it was intentional or not is not really important to me.
I live in a beautiful small city in B.C, I have an amazing house in a rural area with some land, my neighbours are not going to hear me sneeze but close enough to have drinks with and sit around a fire. Living a great lifestyle, the commute is why I can live where I want. My wife will not ever consider living anywhere close to Toronto, neither would I.
You missed my point however, I make a pretty decent salary by Canadian standards, with no OT I’m going to crack 210k and that salary is not enough to buy a house built in the 60s around YYZ, that was the point. No one is going to pay new hires in Canada the salary that would be required to buy a shitty house close to the airports that are the main bases of those companies. This leaves few options, go to Dubai or move further away from the airport where you can afford to buy a house or keep whining about how hard life is but do nothing about it.
I haven’t checked on the Calgary market but I’m going to suggest it’s still the only base where it wouldn’t take a 200k salary to buy a decent house close to the airport, making WJ the best company for not needing to commute, YWG even better!
I have to say though, you don’t sound like a 20 something who is working to put himself through university, been there, done that, you sound like some 15 year old kid who did some research on aviation and decided to troll avcanada, you come across as extremely immature.
Good luck and grow up!

[MorePlates]

First of all, I’m glad to hear your 18k salary is for part time work, you absolutely weren’t clear on that at all! Your post was obviously misleading, whether it was intentional or not is not really important to me.
I live in a beautiful small city in B.C, I have an amazing house in a rural area with some land, my neighbours are not going to hear me sneeze but close enough to have drinks with and sit around a fire. Living a great lifestyle, the commute is why I can live where I want. My wife will not ever consider living anywhere close to Toronto, neither would I.
You missed my point however, I make a pretty decent salary by Canadian standards, with no OT I’m going to crack 210k and that salary is not enough to buy a house built in the 60s around YYZ, that was the point. No one is going to pay new hires in Canada the salary that would be required to buy a shitty house close to the airports that are the main bases of those companies. This leaves few options, go to Dubai or move further away from the airport where you can afford to buy a house or keep whining about how hard life is but do nothing about it.
I haven’t checked on the Calgary market but I’m going to suggest it’s still the only base where it wouldn’t take a 200k salary to buy a decent house close to the airport, making WJ the best company for not needing to commute, YWG even better!
I have to say though, you don’t sound like a 20 something who is working to put himself through university, been there, done that, you sound like some 15 year old kid who did some research on aviation and decided to troll avcanada, you come across as extremely immature.
Good luck and grow up!

What’s the point of all this nonsense? Do you really think I care where you live or what your wife likes?

I didn’t miss the point, I understood it perfectly. And I’m not going to “grow up” just because a few of you can’t handle someone pushing back. I’ll stop when you guys let go of the trauma and accept the reality.

You, Bede, Altiplano, and a few others, just because you couldn’t break it until your 40s or 50s and had to grind your way up doesn’t mean junior pilots today need to inherit that same struggle. Your past doesn’t have to become everyone else’s blueprint.

We don’t need to hear lectures about moving out of the city, quitting coffee, or whatever else you’ve convinced yourselves is some badge of wisdom. That’s your trauma talking, not truth. So let’s be clear about that.

As for your last comment, if I struck a nerve, well, that definitely wasn’t my intention. I’m sure it had nothing to do with touchy subjects like your friends in the U.S or Middle East making more money. No, no, of course not. I would never suggest that you guys are undeserving failures.

In Bede’s own words,
“You don’t get what you deserve - you get what you negotiate.”

And the reality is… you guys were, are, and will always be bad negotiators. Get better.

[flying4dollars]

More plates summed up in one video

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uYfS-8-E ... ture=share

[Freshredmeat]

I actually think it's healthy that we're finally having these debates. It’s becoming pretty obvious that we have a subset of boomer-era pilots who use seniority as a shield to rationalize what is, frankly, a pretty sad quality of life created by decades of weak contracts.

Because the truth is:
Our current contract does not meet the needs of junior pilots.
It never has.

The only reason some senior pilots don’t feel the brunt of it is because seniority protects them from the worst parts of the operation:
• garbage reserve rules that force people to live near expensive bases
• terrible productivity requirements
• low pay early on
• unpredictable schedules
• and essentially no ability to build a normal family life until years later

Instead of acknowledging that the system is broken, a certain group romanticizes their own hardships as if “paying your dues” is some sacred rite of passage—despite the fact that today’s junior pilots are already licensed professionals, already with years of training, often with families, and entering what should be a mature profession.

And somehow the narrative becomes:
“Junior pilots just need to sacrifice Starbucks and everything will be fine.”
It’s ridiculous. It reduces legitimate QOL issues to a lifestyle choice and completely ignores the reality that “paying your dues” has turned into an endless treadmill for anyone not protected by seniority.

Meanwhile, automation, outsourcing, shifting fleet plans, and future pilotless tech all threaten the idea that seniority alone will magically fix a structurally broken contract.

And to Altiplano who is blind to the fact that other pilot groups negotiated meaningful bonus incentives while ours were handed away? That’s not pragmatism—that’s denial. Pretending it was some kind of brilliant strategy is the definition of drinking the Kool-Aid. Wake up old man.

We need a contract that works for every pilot—not just the ones insulated by where they happen to sit on a list.

[altiplano]

And another one that can't read and projects his own narrative to create an argument...

You don't know me and I don't know you. You call yourself a professional and you come into the conversation addressing me with pejoratives. Who are you? What have you done other complain and insult?

The fact is that I was junior not long ago and spent the last decade plus trying to do my part to drag this group forward. Now I'm a little less junior, but certainly not senior... But we worked and got improvements realized that will never benefit my position now and that's good, I believe in looking out for the position, protecting and improving it for the next guy, dragging us all forward. You guys think I'm selling you out? You were sold out by the last group - you know, those "chill dudes that have nothing to prove" had things like grandfather pay and cut it for everyone below them. You know, the old ACPA crew that pulled up the ladder behind them, @#$! everyone else.

We killed ACPA, the worst thing to happen to Air Canada Pilots, we eliminated B and C scale, we got a good pension, we cut flat pay in half, we improve FO PCP, we got SDOs, we got more reserve days off, all guaranteed, a higher reserve MRG, reserve rules today benefit junior pilot's, eliminated initial hire freezes when you are bidding to higher seats, and more.

Did we get it all? Is it perfect? Hell no. But it took this long to get this ship turning around, getting rid of some of the shit we crawled through so at least the tunnel isn't as long and the shit isn't as deep. Did I vote Yes? Hell no. But that's behind us and I'm looking forward to how we can get the rest in 2027. And if you want to get it better for the guys coming in behind you it's going to take solidarity. Stop fucking pointing your guns at the guys that have spent their career at AC trying to improve things, the guys in the seat you are going to be in on a few years, get out of your echo chamber.

Stop being a follower more concerned with getting a dopamine kick from the thumbs up on your whatapp from these toxic morons that can't see they're actually just gunning down the guys in the trench with them. And grow the @#$! up.

[MorePlates]

More plates summed up in one video

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uYfS-8-E ... ture=share

Spoiler alert, snowflake… just because they let your parents go on their globe-parading spree doesn’t automatically make you their slave.

[Daniel Cooper]

We

[cdnavater]

First of all, I’m glad to hear your 18k salary is for part time work, you absolutely weren’t clear on that at all! Your post was obviously misleading, whether it was intentional or not is not really important to me.
I live in a beautiful small city in B.C, I have an amazing house in a rural area with some land, my neighbours are not going to hear me sneeze but close enough to have drinks with and sit around a fire. Living a great lifestyle, the commute is why I can live where I want. My wife will not ever consider living anywhere close to Toronto, neither would I.
You missed my point however, I make a pretty decent salary by Canadian standards, with no OT I’m going to crack 210k and that salary is not enough to buy a house built in the 60s around YYZ, that was the point. No one is going to pay new hires in Canada the salary that would be required to buy a shitty house close to the airports that are the main bases of those companies. This leaves few options, go to Dubai or move further away from the airport where you can afford to buy a house or keep whining about how hard life is but do nothing about it.
I haven’t checked on the Calgary market but I’m going to suggest it’s still the only base where it wouldn’t take a 200k salary to buy a decent house close to the airport, making WJ the best company for not needing to commute, YWG even better!
I have to say though, you don’t sound like a 20 something who is working to put himself through university, been there, done that, you sound like some 15 year old kid who did some research on aviation and decided to troll avcanada, you come across as extremely immature.
Good luck and grow up!

What’s the point of all this nonsense? Do you really think I care where you live or what your wife likes?

I didn’t miss the point, I understood it perfectly. And I’m not going to “grow up” just because a few of you can’t handle someone pushing back. I’ll stop when you guys let go of the trauma and accept the reality.

You, Bede, Altiplano, and a few others, just because you couldn’t break it until your 40s or 50s and had to grind your way up doesn’t mean junior pilots today need to inherit that same struggle. Your past doesn’t have to become everyone else’s blueprint.

We don’t need to hear lectures about moving out of the city, quitting coffee, or whatever else you’ve convinced yourselves is some badge of wisdom. That’s your trauma talking, not truth. So let’s be clear about that.

As for your last comment, if I struck a nerve, well, that definitely wasn’t my intention. I’m sure it had nothing to do with touchy subjects like your friends in the U.S or Middle East making more money. No, no, of course not. I would never suggest that you guys are undeserving failures.

In Bede’s own words,
“You don’t get what you deserve - you get what you negotiate.”

And the reality is… you guys were, are, and will always be bad negotiators. Get better.

Again, you missed the point!
I’m at the top scale of my career and could not afford a crappy house in the YYZ area, that leaves very limited choices, get the @#$! out of dodge and commute, get the @#$! out of canuckistan, or rent until you can afford to buy.
The same salary has a significant improvement of lifestyle elsewhere, so that’s what I did but make no mistake, these airlines in Canada are NOT going to pay new hires 250k to start, I can say with absolute certainty that it will NEVER happen in my lifetime. So, that means you are left with the above mentioned choices, make your choice but whining and moaning on AvCanada is not going to change those choices!
By the way, you have not struck any of my nerves, you are an insignificant piece of entertainment for me, I actually laugh at how ridiculous you sound, mmm k muffin!

[MorePlates]

"the house" is really a metaphor though, isn't it? a semblance of financial progress? and ditching that little shit is where it starts. and then it becomes your goals as other things line up. maybe it is a house? but it doesn't all roll through the door right away and it builds on the choices you make early.

$18K a year? you can't afford take out.

the bigger issue is toxicity. you continue to insult and argue with fallacy and if that's how you want to go through your life, you think that's great, well you have other issues to address. I'll admit that I was a bit sarcastic, even green fonted a bit... but dude, life is short and you're too young to get jaded and pissed off at a guy making some pretty benign suggestions. Jaded should come in a few more years yet.

Good luck.

Metaphor? Stop this meltdown.

I’ve had enough of you. There were 2 pages of discussion on this thread about housing costs and the income needed to afford the average place these days. Someone jumped in claiming that ditching coffee, skipping takeout, and buying a slow cooker would magically get us there, and you chimed in agreeing with them. That’s why we ended up with another 2 pages of discussion that caused you this agony.

And now you’re saying it was a metaphor?

Being pissed off at any age is bad for your health, but if you had any brains you’d know it’s worse for the elderly like you. Don’t worry about me.

[MorePlates]

Again, you missed the point!
I’m at the top scale of my career and could not afford a crappy house in the YYZ area, that leaves very limited choices, get the @#$! out of dodge and commute, get the @#$! out of canuckistan, or rent until you can afford to buy.
The same salary has a significant improvement of lifestyle elsewhere, so that’s what I did but make no mistake, these airlines in Canada are NOT going to pay new hires 250k to start, I can say with absolute certainty that it will NEVER happen in my lifetime. So, that means you are left with the above mentioned choices, make your choice but whining and moaning on AvCanada is not going to change those choices!
By the way, you have not struck any of my nerves, you are an insignificant piece of entertainment for me, I actually laugh at how ridiculous you sound, mmm k muffin!

Another meltdown. You and Altiplano keep insisting this is “entertainment” for you, but the crying says otherwise. If anyone’s being entertained here, it’s me watching this unfold.

YOU MISSED THE POINT, and you do it deliberately. You start throwing out numbers like $250k starting pay which will never happen, just to derail the discussion.

It makes it look like the actual starting pay is $120–150k. Is it? No. The starting pay is $85k. And the reason I call you guys clowns is because this is what you negotiated, not even six figures.

How are you not ashamed or even embarrassed? New pilots spend around $100k on their certs, grind through 5–10 years to finally fly for the flag, and still can’t crack six figures..

[Bede]

Yes, I make $18K, because I’m a part-time instructor finishing a four-year degree.

I did the same. Never worked the ramp.

Name one school in the Lower Mainland paying part-timers $50K+ with benefits, I’m all ears. You won’t.

You're willing to leave Canada because the pay is better overseas but you aren't willing to leave the Lower Mainland because the pay is better elsewhere?

[MorePlates]

Name one school in the Lower Mainland paying part-timers $50K+ with benefits, I’m all ears. You won’t.

You're willing to leave Canada because the pay is better overseas but you aren't willing to leave the Lower Mainland because the pay is better elsewhere?

God damn, the number of geniuses we’ve got around here is just amazing.

Alright then, come over here, pick up my entire university, move it to the high-paying area, and I’ll be there on Monday.

[Bede]

Helpful post from another thread:

Handy guide to blocking posters you don't like on AvCanada:

Find a post they made and click on their username.
This will take you to their user profile.
Find "Add foe" and click on it. You can always undo it later if you wish.

The forum software will remove posts of anyone on your foes list, and highlight posts of anyone on your friends list.
You will still be able to see if a foe posted on a thread, and if you want to see what they posted, you can click on their post to reveal it.

Enjoy!