First in Canada 100% deadhead pay Will other alpa pilots follow?

[HFNav]

Transat alpa executive achieves 100% pay rate for deadheading pilots

+ business class deadheads or pay pilot $650 premium sitting in economy

Watch Transat reduce the number of deadheads with higher credit pairings

Will other alpa pilots follow?

Canadian North? Porter? PAL?


http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/download ... p?id=30871



Lounge access shall be provided for waits of 3 to 5 hours, or a $75 premium.
For waits over 5 hours, access to a hotel room shall be provided, or a $250 premium.

When a Flight Duty Period exceeds the maximum limits due to unforeseen operational circumstances,
the Pilot shall be entitled to the following premium:

Exceeds between 0:01 and 1:00 past the applicable limit: 500$
Exceeds between 1:01 and 2:00 past the applicable limit: 1500$
Exceeds by more than 2:00 past the applicable limit: 2000$

Premium for extended duty:

Exceeds fifteen (15) hours: 500$
Exceeds sixteen (16) hours: 1500$

At least 1 hour pay for every 4 hours during a pairing


Voluntary Reserve Duty - blocks of reserve that can be picked up by the Pilot at 2.0 x hourly rate
Voluntary Assignment (VA) all paid at 2.0 x hourly rate

Long Call Reserve (LCR) - min 14 hour call out

Introduction of trip trade with FTC transfer between Pilots

Introduction of trip drop

[HFNav]

17.3.1 Full recognition of year of service

Is this year 4 fo upgrade to year 4 captain rate?


17.2.1. 75 MMG

Is this down from 80 MMG?

[thepoors]

Transat alpa executive achieves 100% pay rate for deadheading pilots

+ business class deadheads or pay pilot $650 premium sitting in economy

Watch Transat reduce the number of deadheads with higher credit pairings

Will other alpa pilots follow?

Canadian North? Porter? PAL?


http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/download ... p?id=30871



Lounge access shall be provided for waits of 3 to 5 hours, or a $75 premium.
For waits over 5 hours, access to a hotel room shall be provided, or a $250 premium.

When a Flight Duty Period exceeds the maximum limits due to unforeseen operational circumstances,
the Pilot shall be entitled to the following premium:

Exceeds between 0:01 and 1:00 past the applicable limit: 500$
Exceeds between 1:01 and 2:00 past the applicable limit: 1500$
Exceeds by more than 2:00 past the applicable limit: 2000$

Premium for extended duty:

Exceeds fifteen (15) hours: 500$
Exceeds sixteen (16) hours: 1500$

At least 1 hour pay for every 4 hours during a pairing


Voluntary Reserve Duty - blocks of reserve that can be picked up by the Pilot at 2.0 x hourly rate
Voluntary Assignment (VA) all paid at 2.0 x hourly rate

Long Call Reserve (LCR) - min 14 hour call out

Introduction of trip trade with FTC transfer between Pilots

Introduction of trip drop

Yes. All of this should be the minimum standard.

17.3.1 Full recognition of year of service

Is this year 4 fo upgrade to year 4 captain rate?

Yes that's what years of service means. You don't go back down in the pay scale when you upgrade.

[safetyfirst123]

Westjet negotiates next year. Transat has done a better job with less leverage, and Canadian pilots have to thank Transat pilots for their excellent work. Westjet management has already started to provide doom and gloom, hopefully Westjet pilots stay united.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I can't help but wonder if the AC flight attendants helped as well. I didn't hear any mention of Section 107 this time. But I'm an outsider so maybe the Transat pilots also stared down that threat.

[altiplano]

I son't like that pay incentive for exceeding CARs duty though.

[330heavy]

I son't like that pay incentive for exceeding CARs duty though.

I wouldn't call it an incentive, but rather a cost to the company, and less likely to create pairings that push to those time limits. Unforseen rarely happens here in my experience, and it still requires that all onboard be willing and fit to contiune.

[altiplano]

Ask any company what they would be willing to pay to go over F&DT rules and I guarantee it's a lot more than a few thousand bucks.

This incentivizes the company to go to the limit because they know the pilots will go over and take the $500 or whatever.

It's when the company knows that unrealistic planning results in cancellations that they schedule properly.

This puts all the risk and pressure on the pilots.

Coming back late from a Caribbean turn into the dark and stormy Canadian winter that caused the 2 hour delay that morning. Contaminated runway, gusty winds, pushing 16 hours duty and you're off the end and in a ditch... first question is why are you 2 hours over CARs max duty? Why didn't you say that you wouldn't go this morning, you knew you couldn't do it? Ask for the flight to be re-crewed at base? Why didn't you go for a layover when you knew you were that far over duty? Because you wanted your 500 bucks? Everyone going over better practice what they're going to say when they end up off the runway or dealing with something. Everyone will be looking to pin it on that decision.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Very good points Altiplano.

[BigQ]

Possibly 1 case in future 5-10 years of crews pushing to an accident/incident because of this incentive, vs probably thousands of cases until then when a FCM/FA decides to make a few bills for flying 15 minutes into unforeseen instead of pulling the plug on the whole aircraft down in Cuba.

The cost has been evaluated the same. Since premium is same across FCMs, it creates motivation, especially for a junior FCM or FA, as that can be a very substantial bonus pay bump.

[altiplano]

Possibly 1 case in future 5-10 years of crews pushing to an accident/incident because of this incentive, vs probably thousands of cases until then when a FCM/FA decides to make a few bills for flying 15 minutes into unforeseen instead of pulling the plug on the whole aircraft down in Cuba.

The cost has been evaluated the same. Since premium is same across FCMs, it creates motivation, especially for a junior FCM or FA, as that can be a very substantial bonus pay bump.

It's not like you couldn't go UOC without the pay though.

That's a decision that should be made in a vacuum: Are we 100% sure on it's own merits. Not with the influence of: I am going to make more money to do it.

That you are suggesting it will lead to maybe only 1 accident or incident during the term of this contract, like that somehow isn't much of a trade off, should be enough to tell you it's a bad idea.

Look, I'm all for more pay, but not when it influences what should be strictly a safety and fatigue related decision. It's a bribe to compromise health and safety.

[goldeneagle]

This puts all the risk and pressure on the pilots.

Coming back late from a Caribbean turn into the dark and stormy Canadian winter that caused the 2 hour delay that morning. Contaminated runway, gusty winds, pushing 16 hours duty and you're off the end and in a ditch... first question is why are you 2 hours over CARs max duty? Why didn't you say that you wouldn't go this morning, you knew you couldn't do it? Ask for the flight to be re-crewed at base? Why didn't you go for a layover when you knew you were that far over duty? Because you wanted your 500 bucks? Everyone going over better practice what they're going to say when they end up off the runway or dealing with something. Everyone will be looking to pin it on that decision.

Everybody always goes strait to the worst case scenario, but, it's not the only scenario. Try this one on.

You left YYZ 2 hours late because planes were late arriving due to a snowstorm out in YYC. The turn in the Carribean got held up for half an hour due to a flat tire on a fuel truck. So there you sit with a plane full of folks that have to get back to work the next day, it's severe clear in YYZ, but you will arrive half an hour past your 'duty limit' if you take off now. I's blue skies and sunshine for the departure, arrival will be into an airport after dark with a sky full of stars, you wont see the inside of a cloud for the entire trip.

Should folks park it and go to a hotel, leave all the guest stranded, or take an extra few bucks to do an easy routine leg back home ?

[goingnowherefast]

This puts all the risk and pressure on the pilots.

Coming back late from a Caribbean turn into the dark and stormy Canadian winter that caused the 2 hour delay that morning. Contaminated runway, gusty winds, pushing 16 hours duty and you're off the end and in a ditch... first question is why are you 2 hours over CARs max duty? Why didn't you say that you wouldn't go this morning, you knew you couldn't do it? Ask for the flight to be re-crewed at base? Why didn't you go for a layover when you knew you were that far over duty? Because you wanted your 500 bucks? Everyone going over better practice what they're going to say when they end up off the runway or dealing with something. Everyone will be looking to pin it on that decision.

Everybody always goes strait to the worst case scenario, but, it's not the only scenario. Try this one on.

You left YYZ 2 hours late because planes were late arriving due to a snowstorm out in YYC. The turn in the Carribean got held up for half an hour due to a flat tire on a fuel truck. So there you sit with a plane full of folks that have to get back to work the next day, it's severe clear in YYZ, but you will arrive half an hour past your 'duty limit' if you take off now. I's blue skies and sunshine for the departure, arrival will be into an airport after dark with a sky full of stars, you wont see the inside of a cloud for the entire trip.

Should folks park it and go to a hotel, leave all the guest stranded, or take an extra few bucks to do an easy routine leg back home ?

The same question can be asked without the financial incentive to extend duty.
I don't think that weather example would even qualify for unforeseen anyway. They knew about the weather delay long beforehand, and could/should have delayed the crew's report time. Airlines gotta start planning smarter. They know the flight is delayed. Why are they having the crew coming on time to sit at the airport waiting for their plane to show up.

Deadhead extensions are one thing. Unforeseen extensions should never carry a financial incentive.

[altiplano]

If all signs point to yes, go, there's nothing stopping you. But it's a professional decision that shouldn't be influenced by money.

[amphibcaravan]

If all signs point to yes, go, there's nothing stopping you. But it's a professional decision that shouldn't be influenced by money.

I agree that it is a professional decision that shouldn’t be influenced by money. As professionals we should be able to separate the decision from the money in the same way we should be able to if the phone rings for a sweet overtime trip after we’ve been awake for 15 hours or have had the first sip from our adult beverage of choice. To eliminate the $ aspect and look at it another way: we should be able to pull the plug instead of calling unforeseen when we are fatigued, even though we have important plans/want to eat a home cooked meal/want to sleep in our own bed/etc. Enough emphasis has been placed on the role of human factors in the last 10+ years that anyone flying for a 705 today should be well versed in get-there-itis, operational pressures, fatigue, etc and the effect they have on us.

There is a massive financial benefit to the company when pilots declare unforeseen operational circumstances (passenger accommodations/compensation, bad PR, cascading delays/cancellations, positioning and paying a new crew to get the job done) and I appreciate that a small portion of that is passed on to the pilots.

Finally, the financial benefit to the pilots may be greater if they were to call it quits instead of extending depending on what contract they are working under (unexpected overnight stipend, extra pay at overtime rates for working on a day off) and I appreciate that the long duty bonus or unforeseen bonus, as applicable, even this out.

[Tbayer2021]

I'll bring up an aspect that I don't think has been mentioned yet. In my experience at the various 703s and 705s I've worked at, pilots will accept an unforeseen the vast majority of the time. Does it always happen? No! I'm not here to argue the why's, merits, downsides, etc. Just pointing out a simple reality.

Lets not pretend like it going unforeseen is this rare mythical situation that will now start to be financially influenced at Transat. For most situations, crews will simply be getting some cash for something they would be doing anyway.

[altiplano]

If you say so. But I disagree.

My impression is that 4 out of 5, or probably even more, have little spine to stand up against to a crew scheduler or manager and tell them no, this just gives them another reason to be compliant and make it work for everyone else.

[Tbayer2021]

If you say so. But I disagree.

My impression is that 4 out of 5, or probably even more, have little spine to stand up against to a crew scheduler or manager and tell them no, this just gives them another reason to be compliant and make it work for everyone else.

Sooooo you're saying 4 out of 5 guys are already saying yes without any financial motivation? Which is exactly my point.