The TA

[TFTMB heavy]

If anyone has specific questions later this week I'll try to answer them after the roadshow. More info once I see all the language too. I will not address any of the childish comments or attacks.

I'll say this about starting wage and bottom of the list pay, we secured full years of service. That was an expensive item to add and does not serve the top 25%ish of the list. That can probably be said about the pension for the top of the list as well.

[khedrei]

If anyone has specific questions later this week I'll try to answer them after the roadshow. More info once I see all the language too. I will not address any of the childish comments or attacks.

I'll say this about starting wage and bottom of the list pay, we secured full years of service. That was an expensive item to add and does not serve the top 25%ish of the list. That can probably be said about the pension for the top of the list as well.

How does pension not benefit the top of the list?

[TFTMB heavy]

If anyone has specific questions later this week I'll try to answer them after the roadshow. More info once I see all the language too. I will not address any of the childish comments or attacks.

I'll say this about starting wage and bottom of the list pay, we secured full years of service. That was an expensive item to add and does not serve the top 25%ish of the list. That can probably be said about the pension for the top of the list as well.

How does pension not benefit the top of the list?

It's a factor of age. How much do you think a 60 year old will be collecting from it when he retires?

[altiplano]

If anyone has specific questions later this week I'll try to answer them after the roadshow. More info once I see all the language too. I will not address any of the childish comments or attacks.

I'll say this about starting wage and bottom of the list pay, we secured full years of service. That was an expensive item to add and does not serve the top 25%ish of the list. That can probably be said about the pension for the top of the list as well.

How does pension not benefit the top of the list?

Introduction of a pension benefits the people that will participate in it the longest before retirement, likewise with improvements, the longest in it under improved terms reap the biggest reward from it.

[thepoors]

Monthly MBG at Air Canada is DBM dependent and between 60 and 72 hours for block holders, between 68 and 82 hours for reserve pilots.

First two pay steps FO/RP are guaranteed higher of above or 75 hours.

Depending on fleet, pilots are also guaranteed overseas and nav pay. 71 hours on WBs, 10 hours on 737, 3 hours on 320.

I usually get around 65-68 as a block holder on my new fleet. Is the 900 hour guarantee paid out in January for the previous year?

No, for some reason the 12 month period for MBG is calculated in June. There's guys who didn't get their pay out till October this year.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

No, for some reason the 12 month period for MBG is calculated in June. There's guys who didn't get their pay out till October this year.

Weird. So does the 12 month period for MBG run from Jan 1 to Dec 31 or June 1 to May 31st?

[khedrei]

Looks like there is some bad info here. Just talked to someone on the 67. There is in fact a monthly guarantee as well as an annual guarantee.

Thanks for the junk info guys.

[thepoors]

No, for some reason the 12 month period for MBG is calculated in June. There's guys who didn't get their pay out till October this year.

Weird. So does the 12 month period for MBG run from Jan 1 to Dec 31 or June 1 to May 31st?

13.04.01: June 2 to June 1

[thepoors]

Looks like there is some bad info here. Just talked to someone on the 67. There is in fact a monthly guarantee as well as an annual guarantee.

Thanks for the junk info guys.

Where are you getting that? The only exception is year 1 and 2 who are on flat pay and automatically get 75 mbg.

By the way, anyone can look up the contract here: https://airlinecontract.com/

[altiplano]

MBG is A13.04. Read it closer.

[Dry Guy]

Can you just say?

[altiplano]

I already posted it above.

[thepoors]

MBG is A13.04. Read it closer.

I'm aware, what line says anything about a monthly guarantee?

[khedrei]

Its right there. From what I read, AC pilots completely have a monthly guarantee, not even just in the first 2 years.

You guys dont even know your own contract?!

Thats a pretty big article to not know...

[thepoors]

Its right there. From what I read, AC pilots completely have a monthly guarantee, not even just in the first 2 years.

You guys dont even know your own contract?!

Thats a pretty big article to not know...

"the total of the MBGs, for each Pilot, for the 12-month period will be a minimum of 900hrs, prorated and reconciled with actual Block Credits at the end of the year."

So if the DBM for your fleet is set at 70 every month, as a blockholder you might only be getting paid 60hrs and be short 180hrs for the year from the actual guarantee. That's not a real monthly guarantee, it's the company playing games with our pay. A monthly guarantee would top you up to 75hrs every month, regardless of this DBM nonsense.

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

Air Canada pilots don't have a monthly guarantee....

Oh I guess the flat payers get it.

We give the worst new hire pay in the industry a 75 hrs guarantee. Sounds so very Air Canada like...

Just another one of those "we will get'em next time"...."just need xyz airline to get because we need to pAtTeRn bArGaIn as we dont have the balls to get it on our own"

Sad.

[altiplano]

MBG is A13.04. Read it closer.

I'm aware, what line says anything about a monthly guarantee?

Don't you know what a block is? Maybe you should look at the definitions found in article 2.

2.01.11 Block - An assigned or awarded schedule of flying which may include vacation and/or training.

2.01.14 Block Period:
2.01.14.01 The Block Periods are defined as:
2.01.14.01.01 Jan – the period January 1 to January 30 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.02 Feb – the period January 31 to March 1 inclusive (30 days; in a leap year,
31 days)
2.01.14.01.03 Mar – the period March 2 to April 1 inclusive (31 days).
2.01.14.01.04 Apr- the period April 2 to May 2 inclusive (31 days).
2.01.14.01.05 May – the period May 3 to June 1 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.06 Jun – the period June 2 to July 1 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.07 Jul – the period July 2 to July 31 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.08 Aug – the period August 1 to August 30 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.09 Sep – the period August 31 to September 29 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.10 Oct – the period September 30 to October 30 inclusive (31 days).
2.01.14.01.11 Nov – the period October 31 to November 30 inclusive (31 days).
2.01.14.01.12 Dec – the period December 1 to December 31 inclusive (31 days).

2.01.39 Minimum Block Guarantee (MBG) – Minimum Block credit dependent on DBM as outlined in A26.

So we have schedules called Blocks awarded during pieces of time called Block Periods and those have minimum credit amounts that must be paid called Minimum Block Guarantees.

[altiplano]

Its right there. From what I read, AC pilots completely have a monthly guarantee, not even just in the first 2 years.

You guys dont even know your own contract?!

Thats a pretty big article to not know...

Big time credibility from this group...

Too toxic, too busy riding the shit-on-everyone-in-site train on avcanada and their 12 different whatsapp groups to read what's right in front of them or maybe actually learn from the people around them.

[thepoors]

MBG is A13.04. Read it closer.

I'm aware, what line says anything about a monthly guarantee?

Don't you know what a block is? Maybe you should look at the definitions found in article 2.

2.01.11 Block - An assigned or awarded schedule of flying which may include vacation and/or training.

2.01.14 Block Period:
2.01.14.01 The Block Periods are defined as:
2.01.14.01.01 Jan – the period January 1 to January 30 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.02 Feb – the period January 31 to March 1 inclusive (30 days; in a leap year,
31 days)
2.01.14.01.03 Mar – the period March 2 to April 1 inclusive (31 days).
2.01.14.01.04 Apr- the period April 2 to May 2 inclusive (31 days).
2.01.14.01.05 May – the period May 3 to June 1 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.06 Jun – the period June 2 to July 1 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.07 Jul – the period July 2 to July 31 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.08 Aug – the period August 1 to August 30 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.09 Sep – the period August 31 to September 29 inclusive (30 days).
2.01.14.01.10 Oct – the period September 30 to October 30 inclusive (31 days).
2.01.14.01.11 Nov – the period October 31 to November 30 inclusive (31 days).
2.01.14.01.12 Dec – the period December 1 to December 31 inclusive (31 days).

2.01.39 Minimum Block Guarantee (MBG) – Minimum Block credit dependent on DBM as outlined in A26.

So we have schedules called Blocks awarded during pieces of time called Block Periods and those have minimum credit amounts that must be paid called Minimum Block Guarantees.

Thanks for the pedantic explanation. Why is it difficult so for your pea brain to understand that these block guarantees are meaningless if the company can manipulate them at their will? I'll say it again, if we have a 900hr guarantee, a monthly guarantee should mean we are paid (900/12) 75hrs every month.

What they're calling a "guarantee" doesn't guarantee anything except that a portion of your wages are being withheld (interest free) until the 12 month period is up. Do you get it yet dummy? A block guarantee is not the same thing as a monthly guarantee.

Jfc...no wonder we get nowhere in negotiations and end up with contracts riddled with loopholes when we have geniuses like you advocating for this crap.

[khedrei]

I get what youre saying poors, but you do have a guarantee every month. It just isn't always 75 hrs. Perhaps it should be, but thats a different discussion.

My friend on the 67 told me his was 73 hr guarantee this month. So if he flies 65, he still gets 73. Then, at the end of the year this again gets topped up to 900 if it falls short of that.

To come on here saying AC doesnt have a monthly guarantee is dishonest and makes it sound like they could block you for 30 hrs and you won't see the other 45 hrs till year end. Thats not true. My friend was in heaven a few months back when he was flying 30-40 hrs on reserve. He was getting paid for 70ish. Thats a monthly guarantee.

Im the first one to shit on the garbage that is the AC contract. Im the first one to point out that the Sr guys sold the Jr guys down the river. I posted all the quotes from the Sr guys that swore up and down that they would walk if the Jr guys didnt get taken care of. They were here to fight for a living wage. We saw how poorly those quotes aged. Transat did the same sell out, hand 99% of the gains to the top.

But we gotta be honest about things. AC has a monthly guarantee. Its not always 75 hrs, and maybe it should be. But it isn't non existent after year 2.

[altiplano]

Insult insult blah blah blah insult insult toss more shit. What is your defect dude? Did nobody love you as a child?

The fact is there is a monthly MBG that is variable based on DBM for both block holders and reserve pilots. I detailed it earlier which you ignored. I provided the relevant article references and khedrei even clipped a screen shot, but you don't seem to grasp it. You are guaranteed at least that credit for the block month when you get your pay on the 17th.

In addition to the monthly MBG's there is an annual guarantee.

I'm not defending the nature of it or the amounts, only pointing out what it is.

Also remember the context in the evolution of the collective agreement. that before 2012 Air Canada pilots were restricted to 75 hours MAXIMUM per month. If you had too much block growth you had to drop flying. There was no overtime. Draft and premium pay opportunities were exceedingly rare, credit months in the 60s was the norm. Also reserve was far far lower of an MBG relative DBM. The contract needs to continue to evolve moving forward.

[altiplano]

I get what youre saying poors, but you do have a guarantee every month. It just isn't always 75 hrs. Perhaps it should be, but thats a different discussion.

My friend on the 67 told me his was 73 hr guarantee this month. So if he flies 65, he still gets 73. Then, at the end of the year this again gets topped up to 900 if it falls short of that.

To come on here saying AC doesnt have a monthly guarantee is dishonest and makes it sound like they could block you for 30 hrs and you won't see the other 45 hrs till year end. Thats not true. My friend was in heaven a few months back when he was flying 30-40 hrs on reserve. He was getting paid for 70ish. Thats a monthly guarantee.

Im the first one to shit on the garbage that is the AC contract. Im the first one to point out that the Sr guys sold the Jr guys down the river. I posted all the quotes from the Sr guys that swore up and down that they would walk if the Jr guys didnt get taken care of. They were here to fight for a living wage. We saw how poorly those quotes aged. Transat did the same sell out, hand 99% of the gains to the top.

But we gotta be honest about things. AC has a monthly guarantee. Its not always 75 hrs, and maybe it should be. But it isn't non existent after year 2.

You get it.

[TFTMB heavy]

How about you guys take the insults and reading lessons back over to the AC forum to discuss you CA.

This place would be so much better without the fake accounts and even more so if people could communicate their ideas without calling each other names. There's no way you would talk to each other face to face the same way you do on line.

More info on the TA alter on.

[TFTMB heavy]

I get what youre saying poors, but you do have a guarantee every month. It just isn't always 75 hrs. Perhaps it should be, but thats a different discussion.

My friend on the 67 told me his was 73 hr guarantee this month. So if he flies 65, he still gets 73. Then, at the end of the year this again gets topped up to 900 if it falls short of that.

To come on here saying AC doesnt have a monthly guarantee is dishonest and makes it sound like they could block you for 30 hrs and you won't see the other 45 hrs till year end. Thats not true. My friend was in heaven a few months back when he was flying 30-40 hrs on reserve. He was getting paid for 70ish. Thats a monthly guarantee.

Im the first one to shit on the garbage that is the AC contract. Im the first one to point out that the Sr guys sold the Jr guys down the river. I posted all the quotes from the Sr guys that swore up and down that they would walk if the Jr guys didnt get taken care of. They were here to fight for a living wage. We saw how poorly those quotes aged. Transat did the same sell out, hand 99% of the gains to the top.

But we gotta be honest about things. AC has a monthly guarantee. Its not always 75 hrs, and maybe it should be. But it isn't non existent after year 2.

Again with this stuff, please explain everything SR pilots got that JR pilots didn't?

[altiplano]

How about you guys take the insults and reading lessons back over to the AC forum to discuss you CA.

This place would be so much better without the fake accounts and even more so if people could communicate their ideas without calling each other names. There's no way you would talk to each other face to face the same way you do on line.

More info on the TA alter on.

Totally. Sorry about that, just trying to ensure accurate info regarding the AC MBG statements.

Good luck straightening out the juniors that think they are so hard done by...

And good luck with whatever path comes from you TA.