US Air Travel Down, Overall Air Travel Up.

[Daniel Cooper]

There is an appalling lack of self-awareness and a concerning case of toxic inflated ego on your part. Glad the only one who has to deal with it is the nurse who changes your Depends.

Oops, unfortunately we can't afford nurses anymore. So sorry.

Priority.png (107.83 KiB) Viewed 640 times

[goingnowherefast]

A Jazz Dash 8 captain (37-50 seats) in the late 90s, early 2000s made about 160,000 base pay when adjusted for inflation.
Now someone flying the more productive version of the same plane (78 seats, 100+ kts faster) is making $115,000-$120,000. Adjust for the much more productive airplane, and the disparity is disturbing. This isn't about Jazz vs other Q400 operators, they all pay similar today.

My point is boomer captains made significantly more doing the same job.

There's a couple world events between now and then that were pretty tough on our profession, so I'm not blaming boomers entirely. Please do appreciate that the same job doesn't pay near as much as it used to.

It's a fact that millennials are worse off than their parents

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/millen ... -1.2444341

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/11/politics ... bility-us#

I'm not blaming boomers, mostly because it's unproductive. Go out, talk to your MP and MLA/MPP. Instead of arguing with strangers on the internet, actually do something about it. "Hey, the wealth gap is getting pretty bad" or "let's do something about housing affordability".

Gen X, millennials and Gen Z are now the primary voting demographics. Use that power.

You’re going to need to show your work here!
I’m looking at the 2003 pay scale, year 1 Captain was 65.01, adjusted 104.29
Today’s year 1 is 112.60
top Captain was year 15- 92.24/hour, adjusted for inflation is 145.39.
Today’s year 15 Captain is 166.27/hour, top is 175.99
For good measure I’ll include FO, misinformation needs to be addressed
Starting FO 32,400 based on 85 credit month, inflation adjusted is 51,978.27 today.
Today starting FO would be 68,921.40 based on 85
Top FO 2003 58.49(year 14) adjusted is 93.83,
Today’s year 14 doesn’t exist but year 12 is 107.28

You're right, late 90s, early 2000s, there was no Jazz yet.

Here's the Air Ontario contract from 1998.

https://negotech.service.canada.ca/eng/ ... 85107a.pdf

At the end of the contract, the pay bump on Jan.1 2001, a Dash 8-300 yr.1 captain made $85.37 at a MMG of 80 hours for $82,000/yr. In 2025 dollars that's 145.27/hr and $139,500/yr. A 7 year DH8-300 captain in 2001 at Air Ontario was just shy of $160,000/yr adjusted to 2025 dollars

Your 2003 captain top pay is comparable to this January 2001 1st year captain. But September 11th happened in between there, so can't blame this on intergenerational rage.

Q400 operators today are flying 100kts faster with 35% more passengers. That additional productivity for the airline is not reflected in these pay numbers.

[cdnavater]

A Jazz Dash 8 captain (37-50 seats) in the late 90s, early 2000s made about 160,000 base pay when adjusted for inflation.
Now someone flying the more productive version of the same plane (78 seats, 100+ kts faster) is making $115,000-$120,000. Adjust for the much more productive airplane, and the disparity is disturbing. This isn't about Jazz vs other Q400 operators, they all pay similar today.

My point is boomer captains made significantly more doing the same job.

There's a couple world events between now and then that were pretty tough on our profession, so I'm not blaming boomers entirely. Please do appreciate that the same job doesn't pay near as much as it used to.

It's a fact that millennials are worse off than their parents

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/millen ... -1.2444341

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/11/politics ... bility-us#

I'm not blaming boomers, mostly because it's unproductive. Go out, talk to your MP and MLA/MPP. Instead of arguing with strangers on the internet, actually do something about it. "Hey, the wealth gap is getting pretty bad" or "let's do something about housing affordability".

Gen X, millennials and Gen Z are now the primary voting demographics. Use that power.

You’re going to need to show your work here!
I’m looking at the 2003 pay scale, year 1 Captain was 65.01, adjusted 104.29
Today’s year 1 is 112.60
top Captain was year 15- 92.24/hour, adjusted for inflation is 145.39.
Today’s year 15 Captain is 166.27/hour, top is 175.99
For good measure I’ll include FO, misinformation needs to be addressed
Starting FO 32,400 based on 85 credit month, inflation adjusted is 51,978.27 today.
Today starting FO would be 68,921.40 based on 85
Top FO 2003 58.49(year 14) adjusted is 93.83,
Today’s year 14 doesn’t exist but year 12 is 107.28

You're right, late 90s, early 2000s, there was no Jazz yet.

Here's the Air Ontario contract from 1998.

https://negotech.service.canada.ca/eng/ ... 85107a.pdf

At the end of the contract, the pay bump on Jan.1 2001, a Dash 8-300 yr.1 captain made $85.37 at a MMG of 80 hours for $82,000/yr. In 2025 dollars that's 145.27/hr and $139,500/yr. A 7 year DH8-300 captain in 2001 at Air Ontario was just shy of $160,000/yr adjusted to 2025 dollars

Your 2003 captain top pay is comparable to this January 2001 1st year captain. But September 11th happened in between there, so can't blame this on intergenerational rage.

Q400 operators today are flying 100kts faster with 35% more passengers. That additional productivity for the airline is not reflected in these pay numbers.

When an operator looks to increase profit, would you rather they go after our wages or increase the seats of the aircraft we are flying?
The current Jazz pay scale is a status pay structure that over the years was affected by 37 and 50 seat Dash 8 and increased by the 757, not looking to get into that argument again but when the 57 left the fleet we did not take a cut in pay.
Bottom line and I’ve done the math on this, we were paid very much the same and in some cases more per seat than the AC fleet, again not looking to rehash the argument because it doesn’t matter how you slice it, if you divide the hourly rate by the number of seats of each aircraft you would see how close they were to each other.
That being said, maybe this is the reason AC dug their feet in with our pay increase, the cost per seat mile was at the maximum they were willing to pay, what I haven’t done is take a look at their new pay scale in the same light, perhaps our previous negotiated pay that was denied is close to that, hopefully we get it back after this ULP or potentially grievance process is over.

.

[altiplano]

How about wages at Air BC, Air Nova, Cdn Regional, Air Alliance? Those also blended to create the Jazz pay scale, right?

What is the average new hire age and experience level at Jazz today? Left seat?

What was it 25 years ago in that job?

[Tbayer2021]

You’re going to need to show your work here!
I’m looking at the 2003 pay scale, year 1 Captain was 65.01, adjusted 104.29
Today’s year 1 is 112.60
top Captain was year 15- 92.24/hour, adjusted for inflation is 145.39.
Today’s year 15 Captain is 166.27/hour, top is 175.99
For good measure I’ll include FO, misinformation needs to be addressed
Starting FO 32,400 based on 85 credit month, inflation adjusted is 51,978.27 today.
Today starting FO would be 68,921.40 based on 85
Top FO 2003 58.49(year 14) adjusted is 93.83,
Today’s year 14 doesn’t exist but year 12 is 107.28

You're right, late 90s, early 2000s, there was no Jazz yet.

Here's the Air Ontario contract from 1998.

https://negotech.service.canada.ca/eng/ ... 85107a.pdf

At the end of the contract, the pay bump on Jan.1 2001, a Dash 8-300 yr.1 captain made $85.37 at a MMG of 80 hours for $82,000/yr. In 2025 dollars that's 145.27/hr and $139,500/yr. A 7 year DH8-300 captain in 2001 at Air Ontario was just shy of $160,000/yr adjusted to 2025 dollars

Your 2003 captain top pay is comparable to this January 2001 1st year captain. But September 11th happened in between there, so can't blame this on intergenerational rage.

Q400 operators today are flying 100kts faster with 35% more passengers. That additional productivity for the airline is not reflected in these pay numbers.

When an operator looks to increase profit, would you rather they go after our wages or increase the seats of the aircraft we are flying?
The current Jazz pay scale is a status pay structure that over the years was affected by 37 and 50 seat Dash 8 and increased by the 757, not looking to get into that argument again but when the 57 left the fleet we did not take a cut in pay.
Bottom line and I’ve done the math on this, we were paid very much the same and in some cases more per seat than the AC fleet, again not looking to rehash the argument because it doesn’t matter how you slice it, if you divide the hourly rate by the number of seats of each aircraft you would see how close they were to each other.
That being said, maybe this is the reason AC dug their feet in with our pay increase, the cost per seat mile was at the maximum they were willing to pay, what I haven’t done is take a look at their new pay scale in the same light, perhaps our previous negotiated pay that was denied is close to that, hopefully we get it back after this ULP or potentially grievance process is over.

.

Hey, if you divide your hourly rate by onboard toilets, you actually get paid more than AC pilots. Thought I'd send something else your way for when you're telling your FOs how lucky and well paid they are.

[cdnavater]

You're right, late 90s, early 2000s, there was no Jazz yet.

Here's the Air Ontario contract from 1998.

https://negotech.service.canada.ca/eng/ ... 85107a.pdf

At the end of the contract, the pay bump on Jan.1 2001, a Dash 8-300 yr.1 captain made $85.37 at a MMG of 80 hours for $82,000/yr. In 2025 dollars that's 145.27/hr and $139,500/yr. A 7 year DH8-300 captain in 2001 at Air Ontario was just shy of $160,000/yr adjusted to 2025 dollars

Your 2003 captain top pay is comparable to this January 2001 1st year captain. But September 11th happened in between there, so can't blame this on intergenerational rage.

Q400 operators today are flying 100kts faster with 35% more passengers. That additional productivity for the airline is not reflected in these pay numbers.

When an operator looks to increase profit, would you rather they go after our wages or increase the seats of the aircraft we are flying?
The current Jazz pay scale is a status pay structure that over the years was affected by 37 and 50 seat Dash 8 and increased by the 757, not looking to get into that argument again but when the 57 left the fleet we did not take a cut in pay.
Bottom line and I’ve done the math on this, we were paid very much the same and in some cases more per seat than the AC fleet, again not looking to rehash the argument because it doesn’t matter how you slice it, if you divide the hourly rate by the number of seats of each aircraft you would see how close they were to each other.
That being said, maybe this is the reason AC dug their feet in with our pay increase, the cost per seat mile was at the maximum they were willing to pay, what I haven’t done is take a look at their new pay scale in the same light, perhaps our previous negotiated pay that was denied is close to that, hopefully we get it back after this ULP or potentially grievance process is over.

.

Hey, if you divide your hourly rate by onboard toilets, you actually get paid more than AC pilots. Thought I'd send something else your way for when you're telling your FOs how lucky and well paid they are.

Shocker, another moronic post by Tbayer2021

[goingnowherefast]

You’re going to need to show your work here!
I’m looking at the 2003 pay scale, year 1 Captain was 65.01, adjusted 104.29
Today’s year 1 is 112.60
top Captain was year 15- 92.24/hour, adjusted for inflation is 145.39.
Today’s year 15 Captain is 166.27/hour, top is 175.99
For good measure I’ll include FO, misinformation needs to be addressed
Starting FO 32,400 based on 85 credit month, inflation adjusted is 51,978.27 today.
Today starting FO would be 68,921.40 based on 85
Top FO 2003 58.49(year 14) adjusted is 93.83,
Today’s year 14 doesn’t exist but year 12 is 107.28

You're right, late 90s, early 2000s, there was no Jazz yet.

Here's the Air Ontario contract from 1998.

https://negotech.service.canada.ca/eng/ ... 85107a.pdf

At the end of the contract, the pay bump on Jan.1 2001, a Dash 8-300 yr.1 captain made $85.37 at a MMG of 80 hours for $82,000/yr. In 2025 dollars that's 145.27/hr and $139,500/yr. A 7 year DH8-300 captain in 2001 at Air Ontario was just shy of $160,000/yr adjusted to 2025 dollars

Your 2003 captain top pay is comparable to this January 2001 1st year captain. But September 11th happened in between there, so can't blame this on intergenerational rage.

Q400 operators today are flying 100kts faster with 35% more passengers. That additional productivity for the airline is not reflected in these pay numbers.

When an operator looks to increase profit, would you rather they go after our wages or increase the seats of the aircraft we are flying?
The current Jazz pay scale is a status pay structure that over the years was affected by 37 and 50 seat Dash 8 and increased by the 757, not looking to get into that argument again but when the 57 left the fleet we did not take a cut in pay.
Bottom line and I’ve done the math on this, we were paid very much the same and in some cases more per seat than the AC fleet, again not looking to rehash the argument because it doesn’t matter how you slice it, if you divide the hourly rate by the number of seats of each aircraft you would see how close they were to each other.
That being said, maybe this is the reason AC dug their feet in with our pay increase, the cost per seat mile was at the maximum they were willing to pay, what I haven’t done is take a look at their new pay scale in the same light, perhaps our previous negotiated pay that was denied is close to that, hopefully we get it back after this ULP or potentially grievance process is over.

.

Short answer is we're all underpaid. From the 152 instructors to top level 777 captains. Pilots today are paid less than they were in 2000. Although I haven't compared 747 rates of old to today's 777 rates

[cdnavater]

You're right, late 90s, early 2000s, there was no Jazz yet.

Here's the Air Ontario contract from 1998.

https://negotech.service.canada.ca/eng/ ... 85107a.pdf

At the end of the contract, the pay bump on Jan.1 2001, a Dash 8-300 yr.1 captain made $85.37 at a MMG of 80 hours for $82,000/yr. In 2025 dollars that's 145.27/hr and $139,500/yr. A 7 year DH8-300 captain in 2001 at Air Ontario was just shy of $160,000/yr adjusted to 2025 dollars

Your 2003 captain top pay is comparable to this January 2001 1st year captain. But September 11th happened in between there, so can't blame this on intergenerational rage.

Q400 operators today are flying 100kts faster with 35% more passengers. That additional productivity for the airline is not reflected in these pay numbers.

When an operator looks to increase profit, would you rather they go after our wages or increase the seats of the aircraft we are flying?
The current Jazz pay scale is a status pay structure that over the years was affected by 37 and 50 seat Dash 8 and increased by the 757, not looking to get into that argument again but when the 57 left the fleet we did not take a cut in pay.
Bottom line and I’ve done the math on this, we were paid very much the same and in some cases more per seat than the AC fleet, again not looking to rehash the argument because it doesn’t matter how you slice it, if you divide the hourly rate by the number of seats of each aircraft you would see how close they were to each other.
That being said, maybe this is the reason AC dug their feet in with our pay increase, the cost per seat mile was at the maximum they were willing to pay, what I haven’t done is take a look at their new pay scale in the same light, perhaps our previous negotiated pay that was denied is close to that, hopefully we get it back after this ULP or potentially grievance process is over.

.

Short answer is we're all underpaid. From the 152 instructors to top level 777 captains. Pilots today are paid less than they were in 2000. Although I haven't compared 747 rates of old to today's 777 rates

Won’t argue with that

[Justjohn]

What none of you seem to get is that in the early 2000 a few airlines had folded, Air Canada declared bankruptcy and any hiring was at a trickle compared to today. Most of the people throwing those numbers around wouldn’t have worked at Jazz back then or anywhere similar.

For the few who did get hired the bare minimum requirement was 5K hours and an ATPL which was significantly harder to get then, both the hours and the ATPL.And then the upgrade time was close to 10 years. Until 2011 or so F/O time was credited at 1/2 and there was no PICUS. To hold an ATPL typically took 3K hours flown. JAZZ required an ATPL to sit in the right seat because they had an overwhelming amount of qualified candidates they could be picky. A typical Dash skipper was 40+ years old.

Things today are SO SO SO much better but some of you are upset about things that are recent history that you seem to have little understanding of.

A lot of you seem to think that because you work at JAZZ or someplace similar now then you probably would have back then too. Not the case .

But Bommers be bommering and gen Z can’t get out of their own way without a participation trophy.

[goingnowherefast]

Is a Delta A320 captain worth more than an AC A320 captain?

Is a 30 year old Dash-8 captain worth more than a 40 year old Dash-8 captain?

We're all doing the same job for different pay.

The biggest difference is the state of the industry and negotiating environment each pilot above found themselves in.

Current US airline pilots had incredible negotiating opportunities over the past 20 years. Canada has not, and also didn't exploit the opportunities to their fullest.
The difference between a 1998 contract and a 2003 contract is the harm the industry and the world experienced on Sept. 11th. There were mergers, bankruptcies, concessionary bargaining.

The fact still remains that boomer Dash-8 captains made more money than millennial Dash-8 captains.

[cdnavater]

Is a Delta A320 captain worth more than an AC A320 captain?

Is a 30 year old Dash-8 captain worth more than a 40 year old Dash-8 captain?

We're all doing the same job for different pay.

The biggest difference is the state of the industry and negotiating environment each pilot above found themselves in.

Current US airline pilots had incredible negotiating opportunities over the past 20 years. Canada has not, and also didn't exploit the opportunities to their fullest.
The difference between a 1998 contract and a 2003 contract is the harm the industry and the world experienced on Sept. 11th. There were mergers, bankruptcies, concessionary bargaining.

The fact still remains that boomer Dash-8 captains made more money than millennial Dash-8 captains.

You are correct except, those boomer Dash Captains took a pay cut and many were bumped to FO and had to endure years of stagnation, while others were simply let go from airlines that didn’t make it!
Many with thousands of hours experience couldn’t get a job flying at all for years, there is no point comparing pre 2001 as that was a big reset for aviation, there have been many resets and honestly I’m sure if you go back to the 70s, we are behind.
This next year may be a rocky one for us and the US, who do you think will fare better, the ones paying 600k plus for a pilot or those not, watch how fast those airlines line up for chapter 11 and see what happens to their pension, it won’t be pretty, we will all be glad we’re here at that point.

I’m not advocating for less pay, I’m simply pointing out reality, after all, I’d rather make more in good times and hopefully squirrel some away for the bad!
I can’t imagine how mad you all are going to be at the boomers still flying when the shit hits the fan and you’re looking for any job, for that, I won’t apologize, still gots bills to pay!
Signed GenXr who never blamed any generation before me for anything that went wrong in my life, the ones after me, well grow the @#$! up would you!

[goingnowherefast]

I'm not blaming anyone. Just pointing out the facts.

Millennials started their careers in the 2008 "great recession", then just as things were starting to get good, COVID.

What covid did for a millennial's career what 9/11 did for the boomers. Both generations had their figurative career headwinds.

I appreciate millennials being grumpy that their earning potential is lower for the same job, and the general financial environment millennials find themselves with.

What I disagree with is the approach. The jealousy of boomers is coming across as blame and anger. That doesn't solve the problem.

[Tbayer2021]

What I disagree with is the approach. The jealousy of boomers is coming across as blame and anger. That doesn't solve the problem.

We probably wouldn't blame things on them if there wasn't a verifiable track record of them getting in the way to make things difficult, more expensive or outright impossible for millenials.

Take zoning for example. Who do you think makes up the vast majority of the opposition to densification bylaws? This has been a strong contributor to skyrocketing prices over the years. Boomers not wanting low rise densification projects in their neighbourhoods. Kicking the can down the road, making it someone else's problem, NIMBY. So many ways to describe the same greed.

[cdnavater]

I'm not blaming anyone. Just pointing out the facts.

Millennials started their careers in the 2008 "great recession", then just as things were starting to get good, COVID.

What covid did for a millennial's career what 9/11 did for the boomers. Both generations had their figurative career headwinds.

I appreciate millennials being grumpy that their earning potential is lower for the same job, and the general financial environment millennials find themselves with.

What I disagree with is the approach. The jealousy of boomers is coming across as blame and anger. That doesn't solve the problem.

I wasn’t necessarily directing that at you, a general comment on blaming others for their woes.
Like in your example GenX started their career in the early 90s recession and then lived through Sept 2001, the 2008, Covid… what’s next for our careers.
My problem is that the most current generation is very angry at previous generations like it was intentional, we all had to eat some shit but holy crap are they entitled, or come across that way at least. My kids tried the entitled thing and I nipped that in the bud real fn quick, no participation trophies in my house.
Fact is, they seem to completely discount any of our previous struggles and would happily take half our pay and tack in on their cheque and wouldn’t blink an eye, we are no different in that regard;)-

[digits_]

Fact is, they seem to completely discount any of our previous struggles and would happily take half our pay and tack in on their cheque and wouldn’t blink an eye, we are no different in that regard;)-

Then again, you have the other side of the coin where the older guard at a certain company got a pay raise that exceeded the salary of the new hires. Puts things in perspective

[Old fella]

I'm not blaming anyone. Just pointing out the facts.

Millennials started their careers in the 2008 "great recession", then just as things were starting to get good, COVID.

What covid did for a millennial's career what 9/11 did for the boomers. Both generations had their figurative career headwinds.

I appreciate millennials being grumpy that their earning potential is lower for the same job, and the general financial environment millennials find themselves with.

What I disagree with is the approach. The jealousy of boomers is coming across as blame and anger. That doesn't solve the problem.

I wasn’t necessarily directing that at you, a general comment on blaming others for their woes.
Like in your example GenX started their career in the early 90s recession and then lived through Sept 2001, the 2008, Covid… what’s next for our careers.
My problem is that the most current generation is very angry at previous generations like it was intentional, we all had to eat some shit but holy crap are they entitled, or come across that way at least. My kids tried the entitled thing and I nipped that in the bud real fn quick, no participation trophies in my house.
Fact is, they seem to completely discount any of our previous struggles and would happily take half our pay and tack in on their cheque and wouldn’t blink an eye, we are no different in that regard;)-

Reminds me of the The Silent Generation(1928-45) and The Baby Boomer Generation(1946-64) - me

The silent Generation was one known for conformity, hard work, resilience, Loyality, strict adherence to authority , security and stability and a newfound stance of materialism.

Then the Baby Boomers showed up with the boob flashing/birth control females who abhorred men telling them how to live aka the feminists movement. Our non-conformity, don’t care a f*uk views, indifference and at times hostility to authority. Toss in an appetite for drugs-sex-rock and roll: Summer of Love ‘67 & Woodstock’69 - hippies as the decade closed. Timothy Leary adding Turn on-Tune in and Drop out well……….

The Silent Generation were alarmed and appalled by the Boomer attitudes,deviance, hostility. The Boomers in turn abhorred the Silent Generation life of work-family-god-church with the materialistic, suburban, father knows best life.

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way

[thepoors]

I'm not blaming anyone. Just pointing out the facts.

Millennials started their careers in the 2008 "great recession", then just as things were starting to get good, COVID.

What covid did for a millennial's career what 9/11 did for the boomers. Both generations had their figurative career headwinds.

I appreciate millennials being grumpy that their earning potential is lower for the same job, and the general financial environment millennials find themselves with.

What I disagree with is the approach. The jealousy of boomers is coming across as blame and anger. That doesn't solve the problem.

I wasn’t necessarily directing that at you, a general comment on blaming others for their woes.
Like in your example GenX started their career in the early 90s recession and then lived through Sept 2001, the 2008, Covid… what’s next for our careers.
My problem is that the most current generation is very angry at previous generations like it was intentional, we all had to eat some shit but holy crap are they entitled, or come across that way at least. My kids tried the entitled thing and I nipped that in the bud real fn quick, no participation trophies in my house.
Fact is, they seem to completely discount any of our previous struggles and would happily take half our pay and tack in on their cheque and wouldn’t blink an eye, we are no different in that regard;)-

Reminds me of the The Silent Generation(1928-45) and The Baby Boomer Generation(1946-64) - me

The silent Generation was one known for conformity, hard work, resilience, Loyality, strict adherence to authority , security and stability and a newfound stance of materialism.

Then the Baby Boomers showed up with the boob flashing/birth control females who abhorred men telling them how to live aka the feminists movement. Our non-conformity, don’t care a f*uk views, indifference and at times hostility to authority. Toss in an appetite for drugs-sex-rock and roll: Summer of Love ‘67 & Woodstock’69 - hippies as the decade closed. Timothy Leary adding Turn on-Tune in and Drop out well……….

The Silent Generation were alarmed and appalled by the Boomer attitudes,deviance, hostility. The Boomers in turn abhorred the Silent Generation life of work-family-god-church with the materialistic, suburban, father knows best life.

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way

So you're willing to acknowledge that your generation were a bunch of shitheads with bad attitudes and no work ethic, yet your hardworking parents still gave you a leg up on life. But unlike them, all you've done is handicapped the following generations while enriching yourselves and claiming that you had it so hard. Your narrative is showing cracks.

[Blueontop]

I wasn’t necessarily directing that at you, a general comment on blaming others for their woes.
Like in your example GenX started their career in the early 90s recession and then lived through Sept 2001, the 2008, Covid… what’s next for our careers.
My problem is that the most current generation is very angry at previous generations like it was intentional, we all had to eat some shit but holy crap are they entitled, or come across that way at least. My kids tried the entitled thing and I nipped that in the bud real fn quick, no participation trophies in my house.
Fact is, they seem to completely discount any of our previous struggles and would happily take half our pay and tack in on their cheque and wouldn’t blink an eye, we are no different in that regard;)-

Reminds me of the The Silent Generation(1928-45) and The Baby Boomer Generation(1946-64) - me

The silent Generation was one known for conformity, hard work, resilience, Loyality, strict adherence to authority , security and stability and a newfound stance of materialism.

Then the Baby Boomers showed up with the boob flashing/birth control females who abhorred men telling them how to live aka the feminists movement. Our non-conformity, don’t care a f*uk views, indifference and at times hostility to authority. Toss in an appetite for drugs-sex-rock and roll: Summer of Love ‘67 & Woodstock’69 - hippies as the decade closed. Timothy Leary adding Turn on-Tune in and Drop out well……….

The Silent Generation were alarmed and appalled by the Boomer attitudes,deviance, hostility. The Boomers in turn abhorred the Silent Generation life of work-family-god-church with the materialistic, suburban, father knows best life.

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way

So you're willing to acknowledge that your generation were a bunch of shitheads with bad attitudes and no work ethic, yet your hardworking parents still gave you a leg up on life. But unlike them, all you've done is handicapped the following generations while enriching yourselves and claiming that you had it so hard. Your narrative is showing cracks.

Check mate.

[Old fella]

I wasn’t necessarily directing that at you, a general comment on blaming others for their woes.
Like in your example GenX started their career in the early 90s recession and then lived through Sept 2001, the 2008, Covid… what’s next for our careers.
My problem is that the most current generation is very angry at previous generations like it was intentional, we all had to eat some shit but holy crap are they entitled, or come across that way at least. My kids tried the entitled thing and I nipped that in the bud real fn quick, no participation trophies in my house.
Fact is, they seem to completely discount any of our previous struggles and would happily take half our pay and tack in on their cheque and wouldn’t blink an eye, we are no different in that regard;)-

Reminds me of the The Silent Generation(1928-45) and The Baby Boomer Generation(1946-64) - me

The silent Generation was one known for conformity, hard work, resilience, Loyality, strict adherence to authority , security and stability and a newfound stance of materialism.

Then the Baby Boomers showed up with the boob flashing/birth control females who abhorred men telling them how to live aka the feminists movement. Our non-conformity, don’t care a f*uk views, indifference and at times hostility to authority. Toss in an appetite for drugs-sex-rock and roll: Summer of Love ‘67 & Woodstock’69 - hippies as the decade closed. Timothy Leary adding Turn on-Tune in and Drop out well……….

The Silent Generation were alarmed and appalled by the Boomer attitudes,deviance, hostility. The Boomers in turn abhorred the Silent Generation life of work-family-god-church with the materialistic, suburban, father knows best life.

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way

So you're willing to acknowledge that your generation were a bunch of shitheads with bad attitudes and no work ethic, yet your hardworking parents still gave you a leg up on life. But unlike them, all you've done is handicapped the following generations while enriching yourselves and claiming that you had it so hard. Your narrative is showing cracks.

Shitheads in each and every generation pal, including yours. Nobody has an inside line on that, yes all Generations do have positive attributes as I am sure yours will as we read the History.

PS. Trying to figure out how I enriched myself in the ‘60s and ‘70s. There wasn’t an abundance of riches as I knew of then.

[Tbayer2021]

They say strong men make for good times, the silent generation. They also say weak men make for hard times. I wonder who that could be.

[Old fella]

They say strong men make for good times, the silent generation. They also say weak men make for hard times. I wonder who that could be.

You wouldn’t survive the ‘60s and ‘70s, that Generation wasn’t soft with a “poor me, life is so unfair” .

[Tbayer2021]

They say strong men make for good times, the silent generation. They also say weak men make for hard times. I wonder who that could be.

You wouldn’t survive the ‘60s and ‘70s, that Generation wasn’t soft with a “poor me, life is so unfair” .

"I wonder who that could be" and look who popped up.

I called you weak, not soft. Soft would be a lesser insult.

[Old fella]

They say strong men make for good times, the silent generation. They also say weak men make for hard times. I wonder who that could be.

You wouldn’t survive the ‘60s and ‘70s, that Generation wasn’t soft with a “poor me, life is so unfair” .

"I wonder who that could be" and look who popped up.

I called you weak, not soft. Soft would be a lesser insult.

Ah my friend…. I was there those decades, got the inside line I dare say. Life was unfair then believe me but I survived.

Music was great though… Joplin, Slick, Morrison, Garcia, Hendrix to mention a few. Working for 90c per hour part time on wknds during HS got me a few albums to play on the family stereo the “ silent generation “ paid for. I should be grateful I guess.

You missed out, you undoubtedly would have enjoyed the times.

[goingnowherefast]

What I disagree with is the approach. The jealousy of boomers is coming across as blame and anger. That doesn't solve the problem.

We probably wouldn't blame things on them if there wasn't a verifiable track record of them getting in the way to make things difficult, more expensive or outright impossible for millenials.

Take zoning for example. Who do you think makes up the vast majority of the opposition to densification bylaws? This has been a strong contributor to skyrocketing prices over the years. Boomers not wanting low rise densification projects in their neighbourhoods. Kicking the can down the road, making it someone else's problem, NIMBY. So many ways to describe the same greed.

Boomers aren't the majority anymore. They're slowly moving into retirement homes and dying. Now gen X, millennials and Gen Z control things. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Rando internet strangers can't fix it. Bitching to boomers won't fix it. Your MP, MLA/MPP, and city councilors are the ones that actually change things.

Even if it is all their fault, instead of crying "oh victim me". Do something productive to fix it.

[Old fella]

What I disagree with is the approach. The jealousy of boomers is coming across as blame and anger. That doesn't solve the problem.

We probably wouldn't blame things on them if there wasn't a verifiable track record of them getting in the way to make things difficult, more expensive or outright impossible for millenials.

Take zoning for example. Who do you think makes up the vast majority of the opposition to densification bylaws? This has been a strong contributor to skyrocketing prices over the years. Boomers not wanting low rise densification projects in their neighbourhoods. Kicking the can down the road, making it someone else's problem, NIMBY. So many ways to describe the same greed.

Boomers aren't the majority anymore. They're slowly moving into retirement homes and dying. Now gen X, millennials and Gen Z control things. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Rando internet strangers can't fix it. Bitching to boomers won't fix it. Your MP, MLA/MPP, and city councilors are the ones that actually change things.

Even if it is all their fault, instead of crying "oh victim me". Do something productive to fix it.

Reasonable points.

One area though never mentioned is how Boomers and Gen X left the next Generations a f*cking environmental and climate change mess that was a major part of our doing that is going to have to be addressed. It will be painful and exhausting,expensive to boot, the Earth is telling us it isn’t possible to continue like this. It’s like a maxed out credit card - you are not getting any more credit and you have to pay what you owe. Millennials, Gen Z and whatever the next lot want to call themselves are indeed right to be severely pissed on our poor climate change record - we f*cked you around.