Poll: What is the most embarrassing aspect of the Air Canada pilot contract?

[RAIM]

Poll: What is the most embarrassing aspect of the Air Canada pilot contract?

[PeakLeverage]

Should add the endless rationalization & projection by some who can't seem to come to terms with reality that this was a World Class Fail. Union reps with fingerprints on this fiasco need to go.

[PostmasterGeneral]

What’s the point? Won’t change anything. Waste of time.

[khedrei]

The fact that you are lying about transat getting better starting pay shows how you are just trying to stir up shit.

I agree its a terrible contract. But dont lie. The transat starting pay is just as bad.

[itaserb]

The fact that you are lying about transat getting better starting pay shows how you are just trying to stir up shit.

I agree its a terrible contract. But dont lie. The transat starting pay is just as bad.

AC Year 1 90.98
Year 2 98.60
(As of Sept 30, 2025)

Transat Year 1 94.45
Year 2 108.71
(New TA)

Don’t forget that Year 3 onward, there is only annual 900 hour guarantee. MBG can be as low as 60 hours for block holder and 68 for reserve.

Will 4$ make a difference? No. However, the OP’s statement is factually correct.

[Nick678]

Doesn’t affect the majority but how the shit was long call reserve missed

[FNGYYZ]

Doesn’t affect the majority but how the shit was long call reserve missed

Good question. I can't imagine going into negotiations with the same group and expecting different results.

Long call reserve would be a game changer for many pilots and arguably good for the company too.. they would have more flexibility.

[khedrei]

The fact that you are lying about transat getting better starting pay shows how you are just trying to stir up shit.

I agree its a terrible contract. But dont lie. The transat starting pay is just as bad.

AC Year 1 90.98
Year 2 98.60
(As of Sept 30, 2025)

Transat Year 1 94.45
Year 2 108.71
(New TA)

Don’t forget that Year 3 onward, there is only annual 900 hour guarantee. MBG can be as low as 60 hours for block holder and 68 for reserve.

Will 4$ make a difference? No. However, the OP’s statement is factually correct.

No, the OPs statement was about "significantly better starting pay". So by your own admission about $4 ($3.5 acually) not making a difference, the OPs statement is not factually correct. Its not significant, its minor, Add on that the take home at Transat is lower, which is all that matters, they COULD end up with less.

Talking about yr 3 onward is moot, as his statement was about starting pay.

There is enough in the AC contract to complain about. You dont need to lie about the pay being less than what it is. Just focus on the other stuff.

[RAIM]

The fact that you are lying about transat getting better starting pay shows how you are just trying to stir up shit.

I agree its a terrible contract. But dont lie. The transat starting pay is just as bad.

AC Year 1 90.98
Year 2 98.60
(As of Sept 30, 2025)

Transat Year 1 94.45
Year 2 108.71
(New TA)

Don’t forget that Year 3 onward, there is only annual 900 hour guarantee. MBG can be as low as 60 hours for block holder and 68 for reserve.

Will 4$ make a difference? No. However, the OP’s statement is factually correct.

No, the OPs statement was about "significantly better starting pay". So by your own admission about $4 ($3.5 acually) not making a difference, the OPs statement is not factually correct. Its not significant, its minor, Add on that the take home at Transat is lower, which is all that matters, they COULD end up with less.

Talking about yr 3 onward is moot, as his statement was about starting pay.

There is enough in the AC contract to complain about. You dont need to lie about the pay being less than what it is. Just focus on the other stuff.

Ok fair enough.

I updated the question to only say that reserve, vacation and 100% deadhead is significantly better. Starting pay is "only" a little bit better.

Reminder: Air Transat didnt even appear in ALPA comparison documents and now they beat Air Canada. Total embarrassment

[alkaseltzer]

AC Year 1 90.98
Year 2 98.60
(As of Sept 30, 2025)

Transat Year 1 94.45
Year 2 108.71
(New TA)

Don’t forget that Year 3 onward, there is only annual 900 hour guarantee. MBG can be as low as 60 hours for block holder and 68 for reserve.

Will 4$ make a difference? No. However, the OP’s statement is factually correct.

No, the OPs statement was about "significantly better starting pay". So by your own admission about $4 ($3.5 acually) not making a difference, the OPs statement is not factually correct. Its not significant, its minor, Add on that the take home at Transat is lower, which is all that matters, they COULD end up with less.

Talking about yr 3 onward is moot, as his statement was about starting pay.

There is enough in the AC contract to complain about. You dont need to lie about the pay being less than what it is. Just focus on the other stuff.

Ok fair enough.

I updated the question to only say that reserve, vacation and 100% deadhead is significantly better. Starting pay is "only" a little bit better.

Reminder: Air Transat didnt even appear in ALPA comparison documents and now they beat Air Canada. Total embarrassment

So do us a favor and gtfo and join transat.

[Montroyal]

No, the OPs statement was about "significantly better starting pay". So by your own admission about $4 ($3.5 acually) not making a difference, the OPs statement is not factually correct. Its not significant, its minor, Add on that the take home at Transat is lower, which is all that matters, they COULD end up with less.

Talking about yr 3 onward is moot, as his statement was about starting pay.

There is enough in the AC contract to complain about. You dont need to lie about the pay being less than what it is. Just focus on the other stuff.

Ok fair enough.

I updated the question to only say that reserve, vacation and 100% deadhead is significantly better. Starting pay is "only" a little bit better.

Reminder: Air Transat didnt even appear in ALPA comparison documents and now they beat Air Canada. Total embarrassment

So do us a favor and gtfo and join transat.

I love this. Who needs to company to bust the union when you can get company shills to do it for you.

"You don't like xyz? Why dont you just quit!"

A long used line to reduce your value. Unbelievably stupid.

[altiplano]

The problem is the whole tone and attitude of posters in this site today. All there is is tossing shit and putting people on defensive.

"Air Canada sucks and the pilots are pansies"
"The boomers fucked us"
"ALPA are a joke"
It's all bullshit and only divides.

We need to be bringing up issues that are important to us and get each other on side about what's important to us - not attacking each other. We need to be engaging and building not tearing down each other.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are multiple account company minions here having a laugh when they stir the pot and provoke division. Senior/Junior. CA/FO, WB/NB, YZ/VR, In Base/Commuter, Block/Reserve... whatever.

Like look at the poll starter and the verbiage of the thread title... 1 year on avcanada, 11 posts, what number account is that for you buddy?

Look at all these accounts that only troll, how many are the same loser talking to himself and sucking us in? Or maybe it's Microphone Mike and the Lifetime ACPA member reject doing their side hustle consulting with Air Canada and spending time here dividing us...

And where are the moderators? Used to be children were reigned in somewhat.

Anyway... I'm guilty at times, but I'd like to to see us be better on here to each other.

[DanWEC]

Thing is, absolutely none of those people are actually doing a thing to tangibly improve anything.in.real.life.

Who is on the negotiating committee? Pilot assistance? Health and safety? ANY union volunteer position where you are DOING ANYTHING?? If not, you're only talking because you want to hear the sound of your own voice. Change that.

It's the union that fights for your contracts. Instead of just pissing and moaning on here, take a stand and do something. Make your voice heard.

[khedrei]

The problem is the whole tone and attitude of posters in this site today. All there is is tossing shit and putting people on defensive.

"Air Canada sucks and the pilots are pansies"
"The boomers fucked us"
"ALPA are a joke"
It's all bullshit and only divides.

We need to be bringing up issues that are important to us and get each other on side about what's important to us - not attacking each other. We need to be engaging and building not tearing down each other.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are multiple account company minions here having a laugh when they stir the pot and provoke division. Senior/Junior. CA/FO, WB/NB, YZ/VR, In Base/Commuter, Block/Reserve... whatever.

Like look at the poll starter and the verbiage of the thread title... 1 year on avcanada, 11 posts, what number account is that for you buddy?

Look at all these accounts that only troll, how many are the same loser talking to himself and sucking us in? Or maybe it's Microphone Mike and the Lifetime ACPA member reject doing their side hustle consulting with Air Canada and spending time here dividing us...

And where are the moderators? Used to be children were reigned in somewhat.

Anyway... I'm guilty at times, but I'd like to to see us be better on here to each other.

While I mostly agree with your sentiment of all this crap causing division, your observation is a bit off. There are plenty of reputable accounts that weren't created a year ago that expressed extreme disappointment when they learned about being sold down the river by the SR guys on the AC contract. Some of those SR accounts claimed they were fighting for the JR guys. Im pretty sure you were one of them. I have since seen you tell some of the JR guys that they are "insert synonym for whiney here" know it all that needs to wait his turn. Im paraphrasing, and you are certainly no cdnavatar. I certainly haven't looked through your posts, but you definitely appear to be in that camp. Forgive me if I am mistaken. Im not trying to throw mudd here, just trying to offer an explanation.

The jr guys aren't going to convince these people that things are more difficult today for young people than they were 20-30 years ago (even though thats objectively true). And they aren't going to convince the jr guys that it was fair to get a raise bigger than their starting salary.

Which one of those things above is true, is obvious to me, but you won't see some of these guys ever admit it.

There is a fundamental divide here, similar to the political one in the US. I dont see a solution. The battles will continue. But I agree that people actually doing something in real life is needed.

[330heavy]

The problem is the whole tone and attitude of posters in this site today. All there is is tossing shit and putting people on defensive.

"Air Canada sucks and the pilots are pansies"
"The boomers fucked us"
"ALPA are a joke"
It's all bullshit and only divides.

We need to be bringing up issues that are important to us and get each other on side about what's important to us - not attacking each other. We need to be engaging and building not tearing down each other.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are multiple account company minions here having a laugh when they stir the pot and provoke division. Senior/Junior. CA/FO, WB/NB, YZ/VR, In Base/Commuter, Block/Reserve... whatever.

Like look at the poll starter and the verbiage of the thread title... 1 year on avcanada, 11 posts, what number account is that for you buddy?

Look at all these accounts that only troll, how many are the same loser talking to himself and sucking us in? Or maybe it's Microphone Mike and the Lifetime ACPA member reject doing their side hustle consulting with Air Canada and spending time here dividing us...

And where are the moderators? Used to be children were reigned in somewhat.

Anyway... I'm guilty at times, but I'd like to to see us be better on here to each other.

100% we are all guilty getting carried away on here, I'm guilty of that as I get defensive and passionate about a place I love to work for and those I work with, but end of the day we are professionals, who should be helping, like those of yore use to do. Outside of this site, there is progress with all of us in ALPA, and with the pattern bargaining. The folks I know and met at the other ALPA carriers are all been top notch and we are unified with a common goal. So that is refreshing to see, and look forward to the rewards that will bring.

[Flyboy736]

You guys are actually upset Transat has a good contract?
That just helps with negotiations against AC. Management knows that they have to match Transat after screaming AC's comparison is national airlines.

Celebrate the win

[Tbayer2021]

You guys are actually upset Transat has a good contract?
That just helps with negotiations against AC. Management knows that they have to match Transat after screaming AC's comparison is national airlines.

Celebrate the win

I don't think anyone is angry about it, quite the opposite. Everyone I've spoken to in person is impressed and very happy for them. I think the language used on the survey was more a poke towards those AC pilots on this forum who said TS wouldn't make any significant gain considering their situation.

The point being that every AC apologist that comes up with a creative, well worded and eloquent excuse keeps getting proved wrong.

[Montroyal]

You guys are actually upset Transat has a good contract?
That just helps with negotiations against AC. Management knows that they have to match Transat after screaming AC's comparison is national airlines.

Celebrate the win

I don't think anyone is angry about it, quite the opposite. Everyone I've spoken to in person is impressed and very happy for them. I think the language used on the survey was more a poke towards those AC pilots on this forum who said TS wouldn't make any significant gain considering their situation.

The point being that every AC apologist that comes up with a creative, well worded and eloquent excuse keeps getting proved wrong.

Preach brother. I don't want to hear ANY excuses to why we dont have everything that every Airline in this country has. As the only legacy carrier in Canuckistan, it's an embarrassment we dont lead in every single regard with pilot contracts.

As for the "if Air Transat is so good why dont you go there" crowd...please do the profession a favor and quit/retire/move along ASAP. You're an actual hindrance to progress.

[PostmasterGeneral]

1200 views in this thread and only 78 votes. Trying to stir up controversy and failing miserably when nobody took the bait.

This blew up in the OP's face in spectacular fashion.

[Tbayer2021]

1200 views in this thread and only 78 votes. Trying to stir up controversy and failing miserably when nobody took the bait.

This blew up in the OP's face in spectacular fashion.

What are you talking about? That level of engagement is higher than many other popular threads here.

[eurotrash]

The deal was sketchy to begin with and everything that has happened since has only reaffirmed that.

Interesting poll.

[Mr. North]

Reading some of the posts here, you’d think the rooms would be packed at local council meetings with members demanding change, pushing resolutions, engaging leadership. But that hasn’t been my experience at all. The meetings I’ve attended at YYZ have been sparsely attended. In fact, all the other bases have routinely had better turnout, even including YWG! Let that sink in: a base of roughly 50 pilots out-attending a base of 2,500+.

Meanwhile, over 1,000 people signed up for free Jays tickets. Granted they may not have all been from Toronto but still, that contrast says a lot about where engagement is strong and where it isn’t.

When participation is this low, it’s difficult to argue there’s widespread dissatisfaction. Either most members are reasonably content with the agreement, or the desire for change simply isn’t strong enough to show up. In any case, you can't claim this was a bad deal because if that were true, the meetings would be packed and there would be hundreds of people posting their grievances on this very thread, as opposed to the usual dozen or so.

All that to say this is nothing but a bunch of hot air.

[thepoors]

Reading some of the posts here, you’d think the rooms would be packed at local council meetings with members demanding change, pushing resolutions, engaging leadership. But that hasn’t been my experience at all. The meetings I’ve attended at YYZ have been sparsely attended. In fact, all the other bases have routinely had better turnout, even including YWG! Let that sink in: a base of roughly 50 pilots out-attending a base of 2,500+.

Meanwhile, over 1,000 people signed up for free Jays tickets. Granted they may not have all been from Toronto but still, that contrast says a lot about where engagement is strong and where it isn’t.

When participation is this low, it’s difficult to argue there’s widespread dissatisfaction. Either most members are reasonably content with the agreement, or the desire for change simply isn’t strong enough to show up. In any case, you can't claim this was a bad deal because if that were true, the meetings would be packed and there would be hundreds of people posting their grievances on this very thread, as opposed to the usual dozen or so.

All that to say this is nothing but a bunch of hot air.

Maybe no one is showing up because they're burnt out from the junk work rules they negotiated. And have bigger worries, like feeding (or even seeing) their families, than showing up at a council meeting where leadership does nothing more than pay lip service to the company ("the company isn't willing to x y z, there's nothing we can do"). Hierarchy of needs and all...

Meanwhile hundreds of open grievances and nothing being done. Zero communication from the MEC chair. ALPA not really doing much to rally the troops or demonstrate any kind of strength. It goes both ways.

[GeoffPilot]

Reading some of the posts here, you’d think the rooms would be packed at local council meetings with members demanding change, pushing resolutions, engaging leadership. But that hasn’t been my experience at all. The meetings I’ve attended at YYZ have been sparsely attended. In fact, all the other bases have routinely had better turnout, even including YWG! Let that sink in: a base of roughly 50 pilots out-attending a base of 2,500+.

Meanwhile, over 1,000 people signed up for free Jays tickets. Granted they may not have all been from Toronto but still, that contrast says a lot about where engagement is strong and where it isn’t.

When participation is this low, it’s difficult to argue there’s widespread dissatisfaction. Either most members are reasonably content with the agreement, or the desire for change simply isn’t strong enough to show up. In any case, you can't claim this was a bad deal because if that were true, the meetings would be packed and there would be hundreds of people posting their grievances on this very thread, as opposed to the usual dozen or so.

All that to say this is nothing but a bunch of hot air.

Its called resignation.

The pilots have given up on the leadership. They think their union is a waste of time except for Blue Jays tickets.

Nice try with the rationalizations though.

[khedrei]

There is no correlation with people not showing up to meetings and them being satisfied with the contract. Thats pure, unfiltered nonsense.

Resignation is a very believable possibility.