Garmin Emergency Autoland - Not a test

[goldeneagle]

Looks like the system has been used 'for real' now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Nl3LOZNjc

[Daniel Cooper]

I can't help but selfishly worry about how this might hurt my career.

[digits_]

Pretty amazing.

But I can't help but wonder why they don't add 'mayday' in front of the automatic transmission to make it more clear. Other pilots tuning in might think it's a weird ATIS message.

[Dronepiper]

Pretty amazing.

But I can't help but wonder why they don't add 'mayday' in front of the automatic transmission to make it more clear. Other pilots tuning in might think it's a weird ATIS message.

I wonder why they don't also add the altitude read out in the AI transmission. That's pretty important in making sure you don't hit them.

[yhz41]

How does it know the pilot is incapacitated? Is it like new car technology where it doesn't get any input in x amount of minutes? Pretty cool technology.

[goldeneagle]

How does it know the pilot is incapacitated? Is it like new car technology where it doesn't get any input in x amount of minutes? Pretty cool technology.

I asked google, it came back with this.
====
AI Overview
Garmin Autoland can be triggered in two primary ways:
manually by a pilot or passenger, or automatically by the aircraft's systems if they determine the pilot is unable to fly.
Manual Activation
A pilot or passenger can manually engage the system by pressing a dedicated activation button located in the cockpit. This button is typically guarded to prevent accidental activation and is often framed in red for easy identification in an emergency.
Automatic Activation
The system can activate automatically through several triggers designed to detect pilot incapacitation:

Lack of Pilot Interaction: If the pilot does not interact with the flight deck for a specified period (which can be configured by the manufacturer), the system will display an "Are you alert?" message. If the pilot fails to acknowledge this prompt by pressing any button, Autoland can engage automatically.
Hypoxia Recognition System: When the aircraft is flying at high altitudes (typically above 14,900 feet) with the autopilot engaged, the system monitors pilot interaction. If no interaction is detected, it initiates an automatic descent to a lower, safer altitude. If the pilot remains unresponsive, Autoland will activate.
Prolonged Engagement of Level Mode/Electronic Stability and Protection (ESP): If the aircraft's ESP system is engaged (which happens when the aircraft enters an unusual attitude, such as an aggressive bank or pitch) and the aircraft remains in a "level mode" for a prolonged period (e.g., two minutes) without pilot intervention, Autoland will activate.

Once triggered, the system takes full control of the aircraft, communicates with air traffic control, selects the most suitable airport based on various factors (fuel, weather, runway length, terrain), and performs an autonomous landing to a full stop. The system can be deactivated at any time by the pilot if they regain control.
More information can be found on the Garmin Autonomí webpage.
=====

Based on what the automated messages on the radio were saying, likely this was an automatic activation.

Very interesting technology.

[yhz41]

How does it know the pilot is incapacitated? Is it like new car technology where it doesn't get any input in x amount of minutes? Pretty cool technology.

I asked google, it came back with this.
====
AI Overview
Garmin Autoland can be triggered in two primary ways:
manually by a pilot or passenger, or automatically by the aircraft's systems if they determine the pilot is unable to fly.
Manual Activation
A pilot or passenger can manually engage the system by pressing a dedicated activation button located in the cockpit. This button is typically guarded to prevent accidental activation and is often framed in red for easy identification in an emergency.
Automatic Activation
The system can activate automatically through several triggers designed to detect pilot incapacitation:

Lack of Pilot Interaction: If the pilot does not interact with the flight deck for a specified period (which can be configured by the manufacturer), the system will display an "Are you alert?" message. If the pilot fails to acknowledge this prompt by pressing any button, Autoland can engage automatically.
Hypoxia Recognition System: When the aircraft is flying at high altitudes (typically above 14,900 feet) with the autopilot engaged, the system monitors pilot interaction. If no interaction is detected, it initiates an automatic descent to a lower, safer altitude. If the pilot remains unresponsive, Autoland will activate.
Prolonged Engagement of Level Mode/Electronic Stability and Protection (ESP): If the aircraft's ESP system is engaged (which happens when the aircraft enters an unusual attitude, such as an aggressive bank or pitch) and the aircraft remains in a "level mode" for a prolonged period (e.g., two minutes) without pilot intervention, Autoland will activate.

Once triggered, the system takes full control of the aircraft, communicates with air traffic control, selects the most suitable airport based on various factors (fuel, weather, runway length, terrain), and performs an autonomous landing to a full stop. The system can be deactivated at any time by the pilot if they regain control.
More information can be found on the Garmin Autonomí webpage.
=====

Based on what the automated messages on the radio were saying, likely this was an automatic activation.

Very interesting technology.

Neat

[Eric Janson]

Have to wonder how 2 Pilots got themselves into this situation in the first place.

Hopefully a full report will be published.

[goldeneagle]

Have to wonder how 2 Pilots got themselves into this situation in the first place.

Hopefully a full report will be published.

I've read more on this. Apparently the plane was on a reposition after dropping folks off in Aspen, 2 pilots, no passengers. The company has reported that there was a rapid decompression climbing thru 23,000, pilots put on oxygen masks and the autoland engaged automatically.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... activation

What I dont understand, if the pilots were indeed ok, why were they not at least talking on the radio ?

[cdnavater]

Have to wonder how 2 Pilots got themselves into this situation in the first place.

Hopefully a full report will be published.

I've read more on this. Apparently the plane was on a reposition after dropping folks off in Aspen, 2 pilots, no passengers. The company has reported that there was a rapid decompression climbing thru 23,000, pilots put on oxygen masks and the autoland engaged automatically.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... activation

What I dont understand, if the pilots were indeed ok, why were they not at least talking on the radio ?

It literally says in the article you posted why,

“Buffalo River Aviation added more context to the Autoland activation in a statement from CEO Chris Townsley: “Due to the complexity of the specific situation, including instrument meteorological conditions, mountainous terrain, active icing conditions, unknown reasons for loss of pressure, and the binary (all-or-nothing) function of the Garmin emergency systems; the pilots, exercising conservative judgement under their emergency command authority (FAR 91.3), made the decision to leave the system engaged while monitoring its performance and attempting communications as able within the constraints of the system. While the system performed exactly as expected, the pilots were prepared to resume manual control of the aircraft should the system have malfunctioned in any way”

[digits_]

Have to wonder how 2 Pilots got themselves into this situation in the first place.

Hopefully a full report will be published.

I've read more on this. Apparently the plane was on a reposition after dropping folks off in Aspen, 2 pilots, no passengers. The company has reported that there was a rapid decompression climbing thru 23,000, pilots put on oxygen masks and the autoland engaged automatically.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... activation

What I dont understand, if the pilots were indeed ok, why were they not at least talking on the radio ?

It literally says in the article you posted why,

“Buffalo River Aviation added more context to the Autoland activation in a statement from CEO Chris Townsley: “Due to the complexity of the specific situation, including instrument meteorological conditions, mountainous terrain, active icing conditions, unknown reasons for loss of pressure, and the binary (all-or-nothing) function of the Garmin emergency systems; the pilots, exercising conservative judgement under their emergency command authority (FAR 91.3), made the decision to leave the system engaged while monitoring its performance and attempting communications as able within the constraints of the system. While the system performed exactly as expected, the pilots were prepared to resume manual control of the aircraft should the system have malfunctioned in any way”

I don't think that explains anything. That sounds an awful lot like a company trying to cover their asses while (best case) they are trying to figure out what happened or (worst case) try to justify their pilots fooling around with the shiny new toy.

If one pilot was conscious, let alone both, the autoland should not be active below 12 000 ft IMO.

[CaptDukeNukem]

They pushed the shiny red button to see what happens is my guess. Don’t know the system, but I assume once it’s pushed there’s probably not an easy way to take it back. Not the first time two pilots were having fun. Visit pinnacle air 3701. Tragedy caused by stupidity.

Can’t wait to hear more about this system and this report, but cool that the plane went to a runway safely on its own.

[digits_]

Not the first time two pilots were having fun. Visit pinnacle air 3701. Tragedy caused by stupidity.

Quite a different scenario. Pinnacle Air didn't exceed any limitations initially. They did mess up the recovery, and were hiding their emergency situation for too long. It was more an incompetent recovery and while unsuccessful, they were attempting to recover.

In this autoland scenario you had 2 pilots sitting there watching

. Don’t know the system, but I assume once it’s pushed there’s probably not an easy way to take it back.

Garmin's documentation published online seems to indicate it's not difficult to switch off.

How do you deactivate Emergency Autoland?
Answer: Emergency Autoland can be deactivated two different ways - by pressing and holding the AP button on the autopilot mode controller or by pressing and holding the AP disconnect button on the control yoke.

https://support.garmin.com/en-CA/?faq=J ... Cg3uQJRQi8

Using a system designated for emergency situations in a situatin which is no longer an emergency, doesn't seem like a great choice either. What if it botched up the landing? It's not designed (or approved) for normal use.

Especially if you're concerned about it not being easy to disengage, it should be done at safe altitude so any unexpected movements can be dealt with before landing. Not sit there and disconnect it for the first time in your life at flare altitude if the computer does something unexpected, which seems to be the implication in the post even interviews (the crew was 'monitoring').

[cdnavater]

Not the first time two pilots were having fun. Visit pinnacle air 3701. Tragedy caused by stupidity.

Quite a different scenario. Pinnacle Air didn't exceed any limitations initially. They did mess up the recovery, and were hiding their emergency situation for too long. It was more an incompetent recovery and while unsuccessful, they were attempting to recover.

To be clear, they exceeded limitations to get to the incompetent recovery, they were climbing well below Vmd, levelled off and despite leaving climb thrust set were unable to accelerate from the back side of the power curve. Just because the service ceiling is 410, doesn’t mean you can go there, the weight and temperature can be limiting!

[oldncold]

Scenario ,well its 230 am over canadian arctic pilot co pilot are deadheadn home but 500 more mikes to cover . The crew been paired together for 12 days nearing end of 14 day rotation . running out of small talk material to talkabout. at flt level 250 . Auto pilot on. been quiet for 10 15 min atc doesnt need to talk to you until 100miles ,from xxx or tod . does garmin think it knows better goes into auto land mode scaring the crap out of the pilots n medic ? saving grace with the can dollar exchange rate predict dont see to many shiny new airframes coming north

[TeePeeCreeper]

Scenario ,well its 230 am over canadian arctic pilot co pilot are deadheadn home but 500 more mikes to cover . The crew been paired together for 12 days nearing end of 14 day rotation . running out of small talk material to talkabout. at flt level 250 . Auto pilot on. been quiet for 10 15 min atc doesnt need to talk to you until 100miles ,from xxx or tod . does garmin think it knows better goes into auto land mode scaring the crap out of the pilots n medic ? saving grace with the can dollar exchange rate predict dont see to many shiny new airframes coming north

The Autoland system functions in several ways. Had you read up on it you’d know this. Pilot incapacitation is exactly what the primary system looks for.

I first witnessed it with a brand new Canadian registered turbo prop. At the time we TC hadn’t certified the Autoland but the FAA had.

Got a front row (literally) in the left seat demo on a quiet morning as to not interfere with the usual traffic known to S. FL

Although I described that auto landing as “did we collapse the gear” it landed this factory new aircraft HARD but it was on centreline. It’s the first time I asked myself “Am I now irrelevant?!?”

Oldncold, you may want to revisit your school of thought.

Much like CAPS, the Autoland Garmin system will eventually permeate though all sectors of GA and 604 aviation.

[SpyPilot]

oldncold: Grammar cop here. You should also revisit your school of writing.

[Red_Comet]

Nice system, but remember that pilots are just part of a complex aircraft's redundancy systems. In the future I can see iterations of this being used as default, much like auto-pilot, with pilots there as backup in case of system failure. If a 737 has a triple redundant hydraulic system, stands to reason it should have a triple redundant control system as well with pilots being the two organic backups for the digital flight control system.

[5x5]

Won’t be long until they have auto-takeoff as well (see Embraer E2TS). Then we’ll have the trifecta - auto T/O, auto pilot, auto land!

Can’t wait until I get my hands on a Tesla 172.

[airway]

“Buffalo River Aviation added more context to the Autoland activation in a statement from CEO Chris Townsley: “Due to the complexity of the specific situation, including instrument meteorological conditions, mountainous terrain, active icing conditions, unknown reasons for loss of pressure, and the binary (all-or-nothing) function of the Garmin emergency systems; the pilots, exercising conservative judgement under their emergency command authority (FAR 91.3), made the decision to leave the system engaged while monitoring its performance and attempting communications as able within the constraints of the system. While the system performed exactly as expected, the pilots were prepared to resume manual control of the aircraft should the system have malfunctioned in any way”

Is there any ATC comms with the pilots explaining the situation? I might have missed it, but all I've heard is the computer generated voice of the autoland system.

What are the "constraints of the system". Can't you just press the transmit button and speak on whatever frequency is selected?



.

[‘Bob’]

oldncold: Grammar cop here. You should also revisit your school of writing.

It’s Boomer-speak and a well recognized and soon to be protected vernacular. Like Cockney, Jamaican Patois, or African American English.


Gobbless.

[‘Bob’]

First rule of anything automatic is to not mess with it. I can’t say that I would do anything different in the situation. Even hitting the PTT might disable it.

I wonder if anyone can shed any light on what training is involved? Like if you accidentally activate it can you turn it off or override it or use some functions like radio to tell ATC what’s actually going on.

Because if that’s already the case this smells a lot like pilots fooling around and retconning a story.

[khedrei]

Scenario ,well its 230 am over canadian arctic pilot co pilot are deadheadn home but 500 more mikes to cover . The crew been paired together for 12 days nearing end of 14 day rotation . running out of small talk material to talkabout. at flt level 250 . Auto pilot on. been quiet for 10 15 min atc doesnt need to talk to you until 100miles ,from xxx or tod . does garmin think it knows better goes into auto land mode scaring the crap out of the pilots n medic ? saving grace with the can dollar exchange rate predict dont see to many shiny new airframes coming north

The Autoland system functions in several ways. Had you read up on it you’d know this. Pilot incapacitation is exactly what the primary system looks for.

I first witnessed it with a brand new Canadian registered turbo prop. At the time we TC hadn’t certified the Autoland but the FAA had.

Got a front row (literally) in the left seat demo on a quiet morning as to not interfere with the usual traffic known to S. FL

Although I described that auto landing as “did we collapse the gear” it landed this factory new aircraft HARD but it was on centreline. It’s the first time I asked myself “Am I now irrelevant?!?”

Oldncold, you may want to revisit your school of thought.

Much like CAPS, the Autoland Garmin system will eventually permeate though all sectors of GA and 604 aviation.

You might want to read up on CAPS before making a claim like that. It could be different with Garmin, but CAPS has not permeated through all sectors of GA. Its only in Cirrus, which is far from "all sectors of GA and 604 aviation".

[‘Bob’]

Autoland will permeate all GA sectors, though.

It’s too good of an idea not to. CAPS comes with a performance penalty and becomes increasingly impractical with a larger aircraft which is why it’s pretty much limited to Cirrus and a few smaller planes.

[digits_]

Autoland will permeate all GA sectors, though.

It’s too good of an idea not to. CAPS comes with a performance penalty and becomes increasingly impractical with a larger aircraft which is why it’s pretty much limited to Cirrus and a few smaller planes.

Maybe. There are still commercial operators flying around without autopilots to keep costs low. It will take a long time before the emergency autoland is more than a gimmick. Insurance rates could potentially be a big factor, if it really starts saving planes.