YHZ and YQT

[nohojob]

Are those 2 bases closing ?

[Bede]

That's what I have heard.

My guess is management wants to exert some leverage for upcoming negotiations. However, wages and working conditions are supposed to be frozen until the first TA is ratified.. I would argue that moving someone to another base is an unnegotiated change to working conditions.

[rudder]

Airlines that can only proffer positions in Canada’s most expensive cities are either going to have to recalibrate starting pay or offer US style commuting perq’s.

Perhaps some employers now sense that there is a lull in the seller’s market dynamic for pilots. More relevant is what the market price will be in 2026 for an experienced new-hire vs an ab initio new-hire.

[Speedbrakes]

Are those 2 bases closing ?

Yes. Confirmed. They will be closed as of May 7, 2026.

[goingnowherefast]

Is Porter really overstaffed on Q400 pilots? How is kicking 2 bases worth of pilots to the curb gonna help with the expansion?

What sort of bumping rights does Porter have? I can't imagine anyone is much interested in commuting from either of those cities though.

[Inverted2]

If one factors all the $$$ spent and extra hours(days) away from home commuting, not to mention stress, is it really worth its? The pay difference between them can’t be much.

[rudder]

That's what I have heard.

My guess is management wants to exert some leverage for upcoming negotiations. However, wages and working conditions are supposed to be frozen until the first TA is ratified.. I would argue that moving someone to another base is an unnegotiated change to working conditions.

As Bede stated - the parties are in the period of ‘statutory freeze’ per the Federal Labour Code which precludes modifications to wages and working conditions following the certification order and pending achieving a first CBA (which by statute may also be reached by mediation/arbitration subject to an order by the Federal Minister of Labour removing the right to strike or lockout).

It would be up to the Porter MEC/ALPA to petition the CIRB if they feel the announced base closures represent a breach of the freeze.

Employers have different ways of responding to unionization. In the case of Magna Corp, when acquiring a new manufacturing business that was not already unionized they would request that they unionize and then come to the bargaining table. That was probably due to the prevalence of the CAW (as it was called at the time) at many of its subsidiaries. They wanted labour structure, transparency, process, and they only wanted to deal with a single agent rather than individuals or individual employee classifications.

In the case of steel manufacturing neighbours Stelco (unionized) and Dofasco (non-unionized), Dofasco went out of its way to avoid unionization by matching or exceeding Stelco WAWCON while at the same time fostering a respectful relationship with its employees.

An employer can choose how it acts towards its employees both prior to and if applicable, following unionization.

[Curious_pilot24]

Are those 2 bases closing ?

Yes. Confirmed. They will be closed as of May 7, 2026.

Will this affect their future hiring for the rest of 2026? Are they still going to go ahead with their march ground schools?

[Speedbrakes]

Is Porter really overstaffed on Q400 pilots? How is kicking 2 bases worth of pilots to the curb gonna help with the expansion?

No one is getting laid off. All crews will be offered positions in YYZ/YOW.

[flieslikeachicken]

The FOAG under 2.3 allows for base closures and layoffs. The company has until March 8 to officially inform ALPA of the base closures.

That said, not being in contact with the association before informing the employees is a bad look. Hopefully it's the result of management not having experience working with unions instead of an active choice to subvert the new chain of representation.

[goingnowherefast]

Are those 2 bases closing ?

Yes. Confirmed. They will be closed as of May 7, 2026.

Will this affect their future hiring for the rest of 2026? Are they still going to go ahead with their march ground schools?

Do you really want to work somewhere that's under such dire financial strain?

Let's think about this. YQT and YHZ are big pilot cities. Think back to when these bases were opened. It was done to tap into that pool of pilots living there. They'll go work for PAL or Northstar or whoever so they can continue to stay at home. Porter just joined ALPA, this didn't happen because WAWCON was good. Commute from a big aviation community, with lots of other opportunities to a job with mediocre work rules. Hmm...

Are we so naive to think management doesn't know there is going to be huge attrition? This is a planned reduction in Q400 pilot numbers. Reducing pilot numbers during a pilot shortage, with a big expansion going on. Yikes, things are desperate over at Porter. Jazz is probably a better and more stable job option.

[flieslikeachicken]

Do you really want to work somewhere that's under such dire financial strain?

Let's think about this. YQT and YHZ are big pilot cities. Think back to when these bases were opened. It was done to tap into that pool of pilots living there. They'll go work for PAL or Northstar or whoever so they can continue to stay at home. Porter just joined ALPA, this didn't happen because WAWCON was good. Commute from a big aviation community, with lots of other opportunities to a job with mediocre work rules. Hmm...

Are we so naive to think management doesn't know there is going to be huge attrition? This is a planned reduction in Q400 pilot numbers. Reducing pilot numbers during a pilot shortage, with a big expansion going on. Yikes, things are desperate over at Porter. Jazz is probably a better and more stable job option.

That's an extremely pessimistic point of view.

They have been filling the FO positions in those bases through satellite base operations (temporary base change where the pilot is put in a hotel in a different base and is paid per diem the entire time). If they cannot fill the seats in YHZ or YQT and they also don't have an operational benefit of having a base there, why would the company want to continue keeping it open?

Halifax has flights to YYT, YDF, YTZ, YUL, and YOW. Aside from YYT and YDF, all of the destinations are an hour flight from YTZ and are served easily by it. Thunder bay is even less useful as it's only two destinations are YTZ and YOW.

It's obvious that in cost and complexity, keeping the bases open has not been viable for years, but they chose to keep it open because they were afraid of attrition. Since attrition is already happening, there is no point in pushing off the inevitable.

[cdnavater]

Do you really want to work somewhere that's under such dire financial strain?

Let's think about this. YQT and YHZ are big pilot cities. Think back to when these bases were opened. It was done to tap into that pool of pilots living there. They'll go work for PAL or Northstar or whoever so they can continue to stay at home. Porter just joined ALPA, this didn't happen because WAWCON was good. Commute from a big aviation community, with lots of other opportunities to a job with mediocre work rules. Hmm...

Are we so naive to think management doesn't know there is going to be huge attrition? This is a planned reduction in Q400 pilot numbers. Reducing pilot numbers during a pilot shortage, with a big expansion going on. Yikes, things are desperate over at Porter. Jazz is probably a better and more stable job option.

That's an extremely pessimistic point of view.

They have been filling the FO positions in those bases through satellite base operations (temporary base change where the pilot is put in a hotel in a different base and is paid per diem the entire time). If they cannot fill the seats in YHZ or YQT and they also don't have an operational benefit of having a base there, why would the company want to continue keeping it open?

Halifax has flights to YYT, YDF, YTZ, YUL, and YOW. Aside from YYT and YDF, all of the destinations are an hour flight from YTZ and are served easily by it. Thunder bay is even less useful as it's only two destinations are YTZ and YOW.

It's obvious that in cost and complexity, keeping the bases open has not been viable for years, but they chose to keep it open because they were afraid of attrition. Since attrition is already happening, there is no point in pushing off the inevitable.

It’s interesting that they weren’t able to staff those bases for FOs, cheaper than any other base and one would think it would be the other way around, finding Captains for them. This will definitely have the displaced Captains who are much more employable looking to move on, interesting decision.

[goingnowherefast]

Experienced captains at the wrong base is better than no captains.

Or apparently not. They're just gonna have fewer captains.

[8895]

Yes. Confirmed. They will be closed as of May 7, 2026.

Will this affect their future hiring for the rest of 2026? Are they still going to go ahead with their march ground schools?

Do you really want to work somewhere that's under such dire financial strain?

Let's think about this. YQT and YHZ are big pilot cities. Think back to when these bases were opened. It was done to tap into that pool of pilots living there. They'll go work for PAL or Northstar or whoever so they can continue to stay at home. Porter just joined ALPA, this didn't happen because WAWCON was good. Commute from a big aviation community, with lots of other opportunities to a job with mediocre work rules. Hmm...

Are we so naive to think management doesn't know there is going to be huge attrition? This is a planned reduction in Q400 pilot numbers. Reducing pilot numbers during a pilot shortage, with a big expansion going on. Yikes, things are desperate over at Porter. Jazz is probably a better and more stable job option.

“Jazz is a better and safer option” lmfao

AC’s already throwing 220’s on their flying no? Outsourcing to PAL? Weren’t there very senior YYZ Q drivers bidding onto the jets because even at the top of the list they couldn’t hold a good schedule since they’re desperately trying to keep the YYC base alive? I imagine when your bankrolled by the feds you can be bloated and sink money into defunct bases, cause I bet the “cost challenges” for jazz YYC is way worse than YHZ and YQT were.

[cdnavater]

Will this affect their future hiring for the rest of 2026? Are they still going to go ahead with their march ground schools?

Do you really want to work somewhere that's under such dire financial strain?

Let's think about this. YQT and YHZ are big pilot cities. Think back to when these bases were opened. It was done to tap into that pool of pilots living there. They'll go work for PAL or Northstar or whoever so they can continue to stay at home. Porter just joined ALPA, this didn't happen because WAWCON was good. Commute from a big aviation community, with lots of other opportunities to a job with mediocre work rules. Hmm...

Are we so naive to think management doesn't know there is going to be huge attrition? This is a planned reduction in Q400 pilot numbers. Reducing pilot numbers during a pilot shortage, with a big expansion going on. Yikes, things are desperate over at Porter. Jazz is probably a better and more stable job option.

“Jazz is a better and safer option” lmfao

AC’s already throwing 220’s on their flying no? Outsourcing to PAL? Weren’t there very senior YYZ Q drivers bidding onto the jets because even at the top of the list they couldn’t hold a good schedule since they’re desperately trying to keep the YYC base alive? I imagine when your bankrolled by the feds you can be bloated and sink money into defunct bases, cause I bet the “cost challenges” for jazz YYC is way worse than YHZ and YQT were.

What in the world are you talking about?
“Bankrolled” by the feds, “bloated”, “cost challenges”! Sheesh, you’re just making shit up to make it sound like Jazz is going bankrupt!
Fact, Jazz is not bankrolled by the feds, the cost challenge for keeping YYC RJ base going is the moving provision in our collective agreement, if they close the base it will cost the company significantly and that passes through to AC, that is why it is still hanging in.
Jazz has guaranteed flying to 2035, we obviously have some staffing issues, I think both Jazz and AC management have been banking on that fixing itself instead of throwing permanent gains to the whole pilot group, with Porter closing the two bases I think that will help.
There are certainly some signs that the hiring market is changing toward the company side and their bet may pay off, time will tell

[Worldpilot]

Will the closure of the two bases affect the March Q400 ground school?

[cjp]

It shouldn't affect March, but there seems to be lots of restructuring happening as we adjust for U.S flying. That may affect ground schools on both fleets.

For anyone coming in externally, I'm not sure what the composition of internal/externals will be for the first few ground schools, but it's been hinted at that it will be mostly internals, particularly on the E2, and likely seeing Dash crew from the affected base closures transfer to the jet.

There's obviously some suspicion that management is turning cold to the pilot group, which was expected. The funny thing is crews expecting significant gains and protection from ALPA versus the FOAG, meanwhile the union has the same folks at the helm. I have a much more tamped expectation, and don't expect the company to play nice, particularly with a very junior union who are still getting their ducks in a row. Management, at least on the flight crew side, is experienced with unions.

Also, everyone realizes ALPA doesn't strike in Canada right? Lots of threats, war drums and all, but otherwise keeps trucking along.

All that said, I was very happy with Transat and their progress. I don't necessarily attribute that to their union, but to management wanting to keep the place afloat as they sail along patching all the holes in their financial hulls. The unfortunate part is, with Porter being a partner intertwined with Air Transat, our loads are affected if either group threatens to go on strike when people stop booking.

Looking forward to sunnier skies as we exit our shoulder season; this unionization drive and a pause in growth has felt like a double whammy of sadness. FAA has now entered the chat.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Do you really want to work somewhere that's under such dire financial strain?

Let's think about this. YQT and YHZ are big pilot cities. Think back to when these bases were opened. It was done to tap into that pool of pilots living there. They'll go work for PAL or Northstar or whoever so they can continue to stay at home. Porter just joined ALPA, this didn't happen because WAWCON was good. Commute from a big aviation community, with lots of other opportunities to a job with mediocre work rules. Hmm...

Are we so naive to think management doesn't know there is going to be huge attrition? This is a planned reduction in Q400 pilot numbers. Reducing pilot numbers during a pilot shortage, with a big expansion going on. Yikes, things are desperate over at Porter. Jazz is probably a better and more stable job option.

“Jazz is a better and safer option” lmfao

AC’s already throwing 220’s on their flying no? Outsourcing to PAL? Weren’t there very senior YYZ Q drivers bidding onto the jets because even at the top of the list they couldn’t hold a good schedule since they’re desperately trying to keep the YYC base alive? I imagine when your bankrolled by the feds you can be bloated and sink money into defunct bases, cause I bet the “cost challenges” for jazz YYC is way worse than YHZ and YQT were.

What in the world are you talking about?
“Bankrolled” by the feds, “bloated”, “cost challenges”! Sheesh, you’re just making shit up to make it sound like Jazz is going bankrupt!
Fact, Jazz is not bankrolled by the feds, the cost challenge for keeping YYC RJ base going is the moving provision in our collective agreement, if they close the base it will cost the company significantly and that passes through to AC, that is why it is still hanging in.
Jazz has guaranteed flying to 2035, we obviously have some staffing issues, I think both Jazz and AC management have been banking on that fixing itself instead of throwing permanent gains to the whole pilot group, with Porter closing the two bases I think that will help.
There are certainly some signs that the hiring market is changing toward the company side and their bet may pay off, time will tell

Oh is that what ac is giving more of your flying to PAL? Surely in violation of your contract? Come on man. You guys are getting cucked and you’re all happy with it.

[cdnavater]

“Jazz is a better and safer option” lmfao

AC’s already throwing 220’s on their flying no? Outsourcing to PAL? Weren’t there very senior YYZ Q drivers bidding onto the jets because even at the top of the list they couldn’t hold a good schedule since they’re desperately trying to keep the YYC base alive? I imagine when your bankrolled by the feds you can be bloated and sink money into defunct bases, cause I bet the “cost challenges” for jazz YYC is way worse than YHZ and YQT were.

What in the world are you talking about?
“Bankrolled” by the feds, “bloated”, “cost challenges”! Sheesh, you’re just making shit up to make it sound like Jazz is going bankrupt!
Fact, Jazz is not bankrolled by the feds, the cost challenge for keeping YYC RJ base going is the moving provision in our collective agreement, if they close the base it will cost the company significantly and that passes through to AC, that is why it is still hanging in.
Jazz has guaranteed flying to 2035, we obviously have some staffing issues, I think both Jazz and AC management have been banking on that fixing itself instead of throwing permanent gains to the whole pilot group, with Porter closing the two bases I think that will help.
There are certainly some signs that the hiring market is changing toward the company side and their bet may pay off, time will tell

Oh is that what ac is giving more of your flying to PAL? Surely in violation of your contract? Come on man. You guys are getting cucked and you’re all happy with it.

I can assure you that nobody is happy with it, the union has been trying to right the wrong and we have a bunch of pilots on here saying drop it. I personally don’t care if they spend all my dues and increase them to continue trying to hold AC accountable but I also don’t have much hope of that happening! They seem to be able to operate however they like with pure impunity, anyhow 6 years to go and I’m done so not likely I’ll see anything but certainly not happy.
FYI, I fly the contract and don’t do any OT, they have lost any goodwill from me until, so never again!

[goingnowherefast]

“Jazz is a better and safer option” lmfao

AC’s already throwing 220’s on their flying no? Outsourcing to PAL? Weren’t there very senior YYZ Q drivers bidding onto the jets because even at the top of the list they couldn’t hold a good schedule since they’re desperately trying to keep the YYC base alive? I imagine when your bankrolled by the feds you can be bloated and sink money into defunct bases, cause I bet the “cost challenges” for jazz YYC is way worse than YHZ and YQT were.

What in the world are you talking about?
“Bankrolled” by the feds, “bloated”, “cost challenges”! Sheesh, you’re just making shit up to make it sound like Jazz is going bankrupt!
Fact, Jazz is not bankrolled by the feds, the cost challenge for keeping YYC RJ base going is the moving provision in our collective agreement, if they close the base it will cost the company significantly and that passes through to AC, that is why it is still hanging in.
Jazz has guaranteed flying to 2035, we obviously have some staffing issues, I think both Jazz and AC management have been banking on that fixing itself instead of throwing permanent gains to the whole pilot group, with Porter closing the two bases I think that will help.
There are certainly some signs that the hiring market is changing toward the company side and their bet may pay off, time will tell

Oh is that what ac is giving more of your flying to PAL? Surely in violation of your contract? Come on man. You guys are getting cucked and you’re all happy with it.

Jazz is losing flying because they can't staff the planes. That tells me there's job security. Porter is closing bases because they...well it's not because they're short pilots. Aka, not job security.

[boeingfixr]

Never fear! The new YTZ to Nashville route will save us all!