What is happening in YYZ?

[CorpPilot]

Been operating both biz/airline out of YYZ since 2002 and cannot for the life of me remember a worse all around service and seems to be getting worse. Over the past few months I have arrived at all hours and in all conditions to be asked to slow down on 95% of my flights. I fly into LAX, ORD, MDW, MIA, FLL etc and never have I seen the amount of "slow downs" and "turn to *** for spacing" that YYZ has evolved to. Also, lastnight I was brought from 41,000 to 31,000 over 200nm from destination.... in the middle of the night. What gives?

[Dias]

I've lived in the third world so I can offer some guidance on living in that kind of society:

A low competence society requires you to not rely on things like transportation, or any public service. Have a car you can fix yourself, cook your own food. Have redundancy everywhere. Print off your airline tickets so you can physically prove you're allowed to board when the IT systems go down. As competence declines, people are unable to identify power abuse because they cannot entertain the abstraction of duty that service jobs used to have. Being in the in service positions starts meaning 'having power to lord over others', and you will grow cynical to accept that 'is just how life is'. I hope that these tips will help.

[lostav8r]

Been operating both biz/airline out of YYZ since 2002 and cannot for the life of me remember a worse all around service and seems to be getting worse. Over the past few months I have arrived at all hours and in all conditions to be asked to slow down on 95% of my flights. I fly into LAX, ORD, MDW, MIA, FLL etc and never have I seen the amount of "slow downs" and "turn to *** for spacing" that YYZ has evolved to. Also, lastnight I was brought from 41,000 to 31,000 over 200nm from destination.... in the middle of the night. What gives?

Nav Canada firing their trainees during covid is what happened!

[Red_Comet]

I've lived in the third world so I can offer some guidance on living in that kind of society:

A low competence society requires you to not rely on things like transportation, or any public service. Have a car you can fix yourself, cook your own food. Have redundancy everywhere. Print off your airline tickets so you can physically prove you're allowed to board when the IT systems go down. As competence declines, people are unable to identify power abuse because they cannot entertain the abstraction of duty that service jobs used to have. Being in the in service positions starts meaning 'having power to lord over others', and you will grow cynical to accept that 'is just how life is'. I hope that these tips will help.

Exactly this. And it's very jarring to those of us who didn't show up in Canada a year or two ago. The rapid decline of this country has been unbelievable to witness.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Been operating both biz/airline out of YYZ since 2002 and cannot for the life of me remember a worse all around service and seems to be getting worse. Over the past few months I have arrived at all hours and in all conditions to be asked to slow down on 95% of my flights. I fly into LAX, ORD, MDW, MIA, FLL etc and never have I seen the amount of "slow downs" and "turn to *** for spacing" that YYZ has evolved to. Also, lastnight I was brought from 41,000 to 31,000 over 200nm from destination.... in the middle of the night. What gives?

Maybe it's that this past January was the snowiest month ever in Toronto, going back in their records to 1937? This affects the ability to clear the runways and even has an impact on controllers and ground personnel being able to get to work, resulting in staff shortages. Maybe it's that there has been a predominantly north-west wind meaning lots of use of the 33's which naturally has less capacity? Maybe it's the prolonged cold-snap with temperatures far below average for weeks at a time, meaning personnel and equipment aren't as efficient at clearing said snow?

Not everything's a conspiracy or "the government's fault" when you actually look at what has been happening over the past two months.

[goingnowherefast]

I've lived in the third world so I can offer some guidance on living in that kind of society:

A low competence society requires you to not rely on things like transportation, or any public service. Have a car you can fix yourself, cook your own food. Have redundancy everywhere. Print off your airline tickets so you can physically prove you're allowed to board when the IT systems go down. As competence declines, people are unable to identify power abuse because they cannot entertain the abstraction of duty that service jobs used to have. Being in the in service positions starts meaning 'having power to lord over others', and you will grow cynical to accept that 'is just how life is'. I hope that these tips will help.

Is it low competence, or low care?

An company treats employees like they're a disposable liability, then employees treat the company, and their equipment as such.

A low competence society, people still care and try really hard to provide the product. They just have no idea how to do so effectively. Or aren't provided with the tools. Pull up to fuel your Dash-8, and there's a dozen drums and a wobble pump.

In DGAF society, we know how to do the job, we just don't care enough to do it well.

For example:
Min credit day, good layover? Give'r. Get to the destination ASAP. Who cares if its an extra 500lbs of fuel.

Credit day to a shit layover, maybe fly a couple kts slower and who cares about being 15 minutes late.

Ramp staff seem to generally be good at this. They know they'll get laid off once another ground service provider can do the job $5 cheaper, so why put in the effort to do a good job? Oh, a plane landed early? Guess they can idle at the gate while I finish my lunch.

As the wage gap and "class war" worsens, we will fall further into this DGAF society. Do your job just well enough to not get in trouble. Cause doing a good job doesn't offer any benefits.

[A346Dude]

Dramatic much?

I'm not defending many of the changes in Canada over the past decade, but equating being slowed and vectored to living in a low trust, low competence society where nobody cares about their job is a bit of a leap.

[goingnowherefast]

I'm not saying that's what is happening with ATC. I can't speak to what's going in YYZ.

My comment just contributed to the pretty aggressive thread drift.