Flight Attendant strike vote opens on July 28th

[Stu Pidasso]

Here's a PSA to AC FA's

The Arbitrator absolutely can give you less that you just voted down.

If I was the company my opening position to the Arbitrator would be 3% across the board for 4 years. The other reality is from the companies standpoint there is a pot of cash, distribute it how you like. In typical fashion you are not going to get the 100+K / Year SD's to give the newhires a leg up.

Boomers UNITED!

I think Flight Attendants should have to PAY for the opportunity to fly with crotchety old captains who creep on them over paid beers because that is how it was done in the "good old days"!

Make aviation great again! MAGA!!!

Back in the good old days we didn't hire FA's out of the phonebook, there were standards.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Here's a PSA to AC FA's

The Arbitrator absolutely can give you less that you just voted down.

No, it can't. It was locked in as a floor, along with all the other aspects of the contract when CUPE agreed to end the strike and return to work.

Your posts constantly have a lot to say about things you know nothing about.

[Stu Pidasso]

I am happy to stand corrected on that pmg, if you can prove it, I certainly haven't seen it anywhere? Anything else you seem to think you know more about?

[confusedalot]

And if you want to join the military, and you apply with no skills and you get the job, the government will pay for your skills.

@#$! those privates! Military folks don't deserve anything either!! Let's milk the working class

got it. flight attendants are military class.

got it. you hate the working class

I am the working class. stupid airplane driver with no money. did more than u have never seen.

you want to trash the old fuckers, go for it.

[newlygrounded]

Your post above is irrelevant. Your search was “flight attendant strike”. Google search now curates pictures with flight attendants in it. Try typing in “pilots at flight attendant strike” and you will get photos of pilot strikes and FA strikes. Also, when the news is taking pictures, they want pictures of flight attendants, not pilots. The will self select taking most pictures with FAs.

I don’t know how many pilots were at the strike, but a google search for images proves nothing either way.

"pilots at flight attendant strike cupe" didn't have any meaningful change, I was going off my personal experience visiting the airport, though looking at the news clips lines up with my experience as well

[BTD]

Your post above is irrelevant. Your search was “flight attendant strike”. Google search now curates pictures with flight attendants in it. Try typing in “pilots at flight attendant strike” and you will get photos of pilot strikes and FA strikes. Also, when the news is taking pictures, they want pictures of flight attendants, not pilots. The will self select taking most pictures with FAs.

I don’t know how many pilots were at the strike, but a google search for images proves nothing either way.

"pilots at flight attendant strike cupe" didn't have any meaningful change, I was going off my personal experience visiting the airport, though looking at the news clips lines up with my experience as well

Which was my point. You will see pilot strikes and FA strikes. And also the news isn’t taking many pictures of pilots with no identifying insignia or plain clothes when the story is about FAs.

[Bede]

No, it can't. It was locked in as a floor, along with all the other aspects of the contract when CUPE agreed to end the strike and return to work.

I'm not involved in this whatsoever, but I do have a copy of the AC/CUPE 2025 "Agreed to Items". I don't see any mention of a "floor" for wages.

I remember going into WJ CA1 arbitration (which I wasn't involved with) and everyone saying how we "couldn't do less than" whatever. Well...we were disappointed.

[cdnavater]

No, it can't. It was locked in as a floor, along with all the other aspects of the contract when CUPE agreed to end the strike and return to work.

I'm not involved in this whatsoever, but I do have a copy of the AC/CUPE 2025 "Agreed to Items". I don't see any mention of a "floor" for wages.

I remember going into WJ CA1 arbitration (which I wasn't involved with) and everyone saying how we "couldn't do less than" whatever. Well...we were disappointed.

It would be pretty hard to justify less than what 99% of the FAs rejected and a sure way to start a wildcat strike!
I’m sure you’re correct that the arbitrator could but wow would that be blatant proof of AC having government deep inside their pockets, given the pilots increases were significantly more.
I’m predicting a modest increase from the failed offer, maybe 10-14% and still 3, 3, 3!

[Bede]

It would be pretty hard to justify less than what 99% of the FAs rejected and a sure way to start a wildcat strike!
I’m sure you’re correct that the arbitrator could but wow would that be blatant proof of AC having government deep inside their pockets, given the pilots increases were significantly more.
I’m predicting a modest increase from the failed offer, maybe 10-14% and still 3, 3, 3!

Maybe, but didn't something similar happen with the pilots in c. 2013? Pilots voted down a deal, it went to arbitration and the arbitrator's award was $50M in total value than the original deal?

I'm not going to wager what happens, but I've yet to see any documents that the proposed wages are "a floor". I can't see AC agreeing to such a term. Why would anyone vote for this TA if that was the case?

The Ontario Nurses Association just went to arbitration. They got their equivalent of paid "unpaid work". When calculating the wage increase, the arbitrator took that piece into account, essentially saying, "you got a 3% wage increase from that piece, and you get an 5.25% increase in your wages totalling 8.25%".

[rudder]

It would be pretty hard to justify less than what 99% of the FAs rejected and a sure way to start a wildcat strike!
I’m sure you’re correct that the arbitrator could but wow would that be blatant proof of AC having government deep inside their pockets, given the pilots increases were significantly more.
I’m predicting a modest increase from the failed offer, maybe 10-14% and still 3, 3, 3!

Maybe, but didn't something similar happen with the pilots in c. 2013? Pilots voted down a deal, it went to arbitration and the arbitrator's award was $50M in total value than the original deal?

I'm not going to wager what happens, but I've yet to see any documents that the proposed wages are "a floor". I can't see AC agreeing to such a term. Why would anyone vote for this TA if that was the case?

The Ontario Nurses Association just went to arbitration. They got their equivalent of paid "unpaid work". When calculating the wage increase, the arbitrator took that piece into account, essentially saying, "you got a 3% wage increase from that piece, and you get an 5.25% increase in your wages totalling 8.25%".

CUPE will likely make three arguments -

1. New-hire annual pay should meet or exceed annualized pay on minimum wage.

2. Higher ratio (or no ratio) for boarding pay.

3. Greater overall pay increases both now and going forward.

There is still a possibility that the parties could reach an agreement in the prescribed additional round of mediation prior to binding arbitration. It would be AC’s last chance to appear more like a compassionate employer and CUPE’s last chance to focus priorities on wage increase allocation.

I don’t agree that an arbitrator will award ‘less’ than the total wage uplift in the rejected pay TA. But there is a chance that they could add zero dollars but reallocate. Be careful what you wish for when appearing before an arbitrator.

[PostmasterGeneral]

No, it can't. It was locked in as a floor, along with all the other aspects of the contract when CUPE agreed to end the strike and return to work.

I'm not involved in this whatsoever, but I do have a copy of the AC/CUPE 2025 "Agreed to Items". I don't see any mention of a "floor" for wages.

I remember going into WJ CA1 arbitration (which I wasn't involved with) and everyone saying how we "couldn't do less than" whatever. Well...we were disappointed.

Both parties agreed to replication arbitration.

Since the wages voted on were presented by the company, there’s no way they can be redacted in replication arbitration. Basically, they set the “floor” for an award moving forward.

[Bede]

AC CUPE award released:

As a result of the forgoing, I hereby Order:
a) The wage rates for Cabin Personnel shall be increased as follows;
• April 1, 2025 – For Mainline 12.0%, steps 1 to 9; 8.0% for all other steps – For Rouge 13.0%, all steps
• April 1, 2026 – For Rouge and Mainline 3.0%, all steps
• April 1, 2027 – For Rouge and Mainline 2.5%, all steps
• April 1, 2028 – For Rouge and Mainline 2.75%, all steps
b) b) CUPE’s requests to add a COLA clause to the Collective Agreement and to merge the Rouge and Mainline grids have been dismissed. c) The Parties are to finalize their 2025 – 2029 Collective Agreement by incorporating the increases listed above into their wage rates and to make all retroactive payments in accordance with their agreed upon process.

The only difference between the award and the company proposal is that Rouge FA get 1% above management proposal.

Further, the ultimate wage rates for this bargaining unit must be determined in light of the Union achieving significant contractual amendments that will generate more income and compensation for the Cabin Personnel, including:
• The breakthrough “Ground and Cabin Security Premium”, [referred to in the MoS as “unpaid work”];

With this in mind, it must be specifically acknowledged that the new Ground and Cabin Security Premium formula is a “break-through” item. It adds an additional element to the calculation of income for work that had not previously been part of the calculation; in other words, compensation for what the Union had been calling “unpaid work”. This new premium amounts to a significant and unique income advance in the airline sector for Air Canada Cabin Personnel.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Embarrassing. AC wins again.

[Airbrake]

https://accomponent.ca/bargaining-commi ... ion-award/

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

At least they got a tiny bit more...they certainly didn't walk away with anything LESS with arbitration like the fraidey cats will tell you

[thepoors]

At least they got a tiny bit more...they certainly didn't walk away with anything LESS with arbitration like the fraidey cats will tell you

And kept their profit share...more than we can say.

[piedpiper]

What did all the ALPA guys say about us going on strike? How we'd get less in arb? That the original TA would not be considered a floor/starting point?

Well sure the FAs didn't get more (which sucks because they still dont get paid enough), but they certainly didn't get less.

I don't ever want to hear that so called argument ever again from anyone at AC ALPA.

[piedpiper]

At least they got a tiny bit more...they certainly didn't walk away with anything LESS with arbitration like the fraidey cats will tell you

And kept their profit share...more than we can say.

Listen I am the last to defend the changes, but we didn't lose it. The entire AIP language is still there, the targets for EBIDAR just changed. I completely disagree with what they did especially when they were claiming there were "zero concessions", but their argument was the language is still there so we can in the future try to move it around again if we want vs. just getting rid of it.

Also last year and this year we'd have gotten nothing and basically nothing.

[piedpiper]

Embarrassing. AC wins again.

Did they though? The FAs maybe didn't win a massive gain but what they did walk away with was way more unity than AC ALPA could ever wish for. And that says something going forward into future negots. And hopefully them walking helps make changes to the CLC and the use of Sec 107. If that ends up going away, we owe them a big thanks.

Instead we had our leadership stick their tails between their legs and manipulate the vote with threats of resignations. Not exactly "leadership" in my eyes. Glad they're gone.

[Stu Pidasso]

For the crowd shedding tears for the FA's, you likely were not around for all the years of Service Directors bragging about earning more than the First Officer. Or the painful years of "Me Too" clauses where the corp repeatedly told the Pilots; "whatever we give you, we have to give to all the other Unions."

Finally, the Pilots have broken away from that nonsense and the FA's got a wake-up call. From the Corporation side this is now the template for all the other Unions. My only hope is the AME's, now that they are free from the Rampies, will make some overdue improvements.

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

For the crowd shedding tears for the FA's, you likely were not around for all the years of Service Directors bragging about earning more than the First Officer. Or the painful years of "Me Too" clauses where the corp repeatedly told the Pilots; "whatever we give you, we have to give to all the other Unions."

Finally, the Pilots have broken away from that nonsense and the FA's got a wake-up call. From the Corporation side this is now the template for all the other Unions. My only hope is the AME's, now that they are free from the Rampies, will make some overdue improvements.

Two things:

1) Was it not the pilots who ratified by 90% a deal that had pilots being paid less than Flight Attendants?

How is that the Flight Attendant's fault?

2) Why did ACPA give a rats ass about "Me Too" Clauses with FAs? Do big ALPA unions worry about what the FAs do?!?!

[flyingcanuck]

Embarrassing. AC wins again.

Did they though? The FAs maybe didn't win a massive gain but what they did walk away with was way more unity than AC ALPA could ever wish for. And that says something going forward into future negots. And hopefully them walking helps make changes to the CLC and the use of Sec 107. If that ends up going away, we owe them a big thanks.

Instead we had our leadership stick their tails between their legs and manipulate the vote with threats of resignations. Not exactly "leadership" in my eyes. Glad they're gone.

Yes, yes they did win. its not even funny how obviously the arbitrator sided with the company. We have FAs making less than min wage once add take account the monthly pay and hours worked. No one should have to, especially when we are based in the most expensive cities in Canada and they just posted huge profits. Bit I digress, weve heard it all before.

[dumpsterfire]

Embarrassing. AC wins again.

Did they though? The FAs maybe didn't win a massive gain but what they did walk away with was way more unity than AC ALPA could ever wish for. And that says something going forward into future negots. And hopefully them walking helps make changes to the CLC and the use of Sec 107. If that ends up going away, we owe them a big thanks.

Instead we had our leadership stick their tails between their legs and manipulate the vote with threats of resignations. Not exactly "leadership" in my eyes. Glad they're gone.

Yes, yes they did win. its not even funny how obviously the arbitrator sided with the company. We have FAs making less than min wage once add take account the monthly pay and hours worked. No one should have to, especially when we are based in the most expensive cities in Canada and they just posted huge profits. Bit I digress, weve heard it all before.

Hey hey...the govt is busy getting "more data".

In all seriousness, I dont know how AC finds people who want to work for those wages under those conditions.

[30westpirate]

For the crowd shedding tears for the FA's, you likely were not around for all the years of Service Directors bragging about earning more than the First Officer. Or the painful years of "Me Too" clauses where the corp repeatedly told the Pilots; "whatever we give you, we have to give to all the other Unions."

Finally, the Pilots have broken away from that nonsense and the FA's got a wake-up call. From the Corporation side this is now the template for all the other Unions. My only hope is the AME's, now that they are free from the Rampies, will make some overdue improvements.

Two things:

1) Was it not the pilots who ratified by 90% a deal that had pilots being paid less than Flight Attendants?

How is that the Flight Attendant's fault?

2) Why did ACPA give a rats ass about "Me Too" Clauses with FAs? Do big ALPA unions worry about what the FAs do?!?!

Check out yammer if you really want to know how this group feels about us. You simply haven’t been here long enough to understand this group animosity against us, while some ppl bend over backwards for them, it’s embarrassing.

Some on yammer are wanting epaulettes on FA uniforms.

[Dry Guy]

Some are making $200k/year by the end of their career that's how.