Ghost of Mike Harris haunts Doug Ford

[‘Bob’]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Maybe OMNR will get King Airs again?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/politics/gove ... r-AA21fiA8

[BigQ]

I mean... what king of narcistic guy has his own name plastered on the side of a plane?

And a government owned one at that...

[goingnowherefast]

I agree that a private plane can be a great transportation tool. What I don't get is why they chose a Challenger 650. Ontario isn't that big. How important is a Premier that he needs to frequently travel that far? Something half the range would be adequate. Even 2000 mile range would get to both coasts from anywhere in Ontario. A discount small jet or turboprop would be much easier to sell on the taxpayers.

[‘Bob’]

I agree that a private plane can be a great transportation tool. What I don't get is why they chose a Challenger 650. Ontario isn't that big. How important is a Premier that he needs to frequently travel that far? Something half the range would be adequate. Even 2000 mile range would get to both coasts from anywhere in Ontario. A discount small jet or turboprop would be much easier to sell on the taxpayers.

Same reason why they bought one in the 90s.

Quebec had them.

[tsgarp]

I mean... what king of narcistic guy has his own name plastered on the side of a plane?

And a government owned one at that...

AI….it got the military uniforms all wrong.

[pelmet]

While likely bigger than what was needed, at least a business jet can be used to get......business.

It is quite amazing. The people on the left screaming about this bizjet are the same ones who support the government that spent 41 million dollars of your taxpayer money in order to get you to change your diet to insects....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/l ... -1.7533755


....Looks like your money is gone. But the desire to change your diet is not likely gone. And perhaps insect prices at the grocery store are not rising so fast.

But don't worry......those on the left are very concerned about your money being mis-spent.

[lostav8r]

While likely bigger than what was needed, at least a business jet can be used to get......business.

It is quite amazing. The people on the left screaming about this bizjet are the same ones who support the government that spent 41 million dollars of your taxpayer money in order to get you to change your diet to insects....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/l ... -1.7533755


....Looks like your money is gone. But the desire to change your diet is not likely gone. And perhaps insect prices at the grocery store are not rising so fast.

But don't worry......those on the left are very concerned about your money being mis-spent.

I'll explain to you why people are mad about this!

Back in 2019 he said he won't use the provincial kingair because driving is fine, and his "respect for the taxpayers" (lets ignore spending $150 million to break the beer store contract) He specifically pointed out he's the only premier who didn't use the plane.



He sold 2 of the provincial king air planes a few months later. People are only holding the man to the standard HE himself set!

[DanWEC]

There are unfortunately very few people who are immune to the eventual temptations that come with position of power. It appears Doug Ford is not one of those people.

This debacle revealed where his priorities now lie, and shows that his time is up.

[‘Bob’]

While likely bigger than what was needed, at least a business jet can be used to get......business.

It is quite amazing. The people on the left screaming about this bizjet are the same ones who support the government that spent 41 million dollars of your taxpayer money in order to get you to change your diet to insects....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/l ... -1.7533755


....Looks like your money is gone. But the desire to change your diet is not likely gone. And perhaps insect prices at the grocery store are not rising so fast.

But don't worry......those on the left are very concerned about your money being mis-spent.

Nothing compared to fossil fuel subsidies so they can rip you off with oil that was never in the Middle East.

Not that this was ever really about left or right (the political binary does get very tiring especially when someone like Doug Ford is about the same on the political spectrum as Mark Carney) but at least taxpayers money is probably going to come back into the economy at some point. Government workers and recipients of benefits are buying houses, cars, products, services… it never disappears.

Where it does disappear is when it’s corporate welfare. This excise tax holiday is simply going to allow gas companies to jack up prices so what would be spent on roads and infrastructure is going to disappear into offshore accounts.

Also Canada has some of the most morbidly obese so-called starving people in the world. Maybe an insect diet would do them good?

[pelmet]

There are unfortunately very few people who are immune to the eventual temptations that come with position of power. It appears Doug Ford is not one of those people.

This debacle revealed where his priorities now lie, and shows that his time is up.

Overall, I like him way better than the alternatives.

They would go back to the massive spending for bike lanes(instead of ripping them out) and re-implement the speed camera tax that put municipal politicians back in control of endless tickets for being slightly over the speed limit. I see that his critics are blasting him for building more jails which means that they are a direct policy threat to the average person’s security.

Ford has definitely wasted money, but when you look at the others….it is unbelievable.

But I would like to thank Bob for showing how much he pretends to care about wasteful spending of 26 million for a business tool.

Here is the alternative that he offers……..9.2 BILLION dollars that the auditor general of Ontario said was wasted by the liberals in the way the rushed the implementation of the green energy act that was passed in 2011(and with inflation considered, it is a lot more dollars in today’s money). You can read the details in the link.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4237041/onta ... en-energy/


And they literally had a campaign slogan when they finally lost to Ford of… .”Sorry, not sorry”. Well, Ford does apologize when he makes a mistake. Is it sincere? Well at least it is not a totally arrogant statement such s We Are Not Sorry.

Thanks Bob, but the Cons are a way better option than any of the others although a different party leader could be an improvement). We all know what happens with wastwful spending when your thought process of politicians are in power. And thanks for letting us know where you stand on the insect food policy(scary). Thanks also for letting us know that there would not be any tax break on fuel given by you(a lot of pilots on this forum are concerned about their jobs and this could reduce route reductions).

Reality check from Pelmet………All governments waste money but in the more modern era of the last couple of decades or so is that liberals/NDP do it on a much more massive scale than conservatives in Canada. So the only difference intelligent and most common sense choice is the party that is least worst(by a long shot).

[lostav8r]

There are unfortunately very few people who are immune to the eventual temptations that come with position of power. It appears Doug Ford is not one of those people.

This debacle revealed where his priorities now lie, and shows that his time is up.

Overall, I like him way better than the alternatives.

They would go back to the massive spending for bike lanes(instead of ripping them out) and re-implement the speed camera tax that put municipal politicians back in control of endless tickets for being slightly over the speed limit. I see that his critics are blasting him for building more jails which means that they are a direct policy threat to the average person’s security.

Ford has definitely wasted money, but when you look at the others….it is unbelievable.

But I would like to thank Bob for showing how much he pretends to care about wasteful spending of 26 million for a business tool.

Here is the alternative that he offers……..9.2 BILLION dollars that the auditor general of Ontario said was wasted by the liberals in the way the rushed the implementation of the green energy act that was passed in 2011(and with inflation considered, it is a lot more dollars in today’s money). You can read the details in the link.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4237041/onta ... en-energy/


And they literally had a campaign slogan when they finally lost to Ford of… .”Sorry, not sorry”. Well, Ford does apologize when he makes a mistake. Is it sincere? Well at least it is not a totally arrogant statement such s We Are Not Sorry.

Thanks Bob, but the Cons are a way better option than any of the others although a different party leader could be an improvement). We all know what happens with wastwful spending when your thought process of politicians are in power. And thanks for letting us know where you stand on the insect food policy(scary). Thanks also for letting us know that there would not be any tax break on fuel given by you(a lot of pilots on this forum are concerned about their jobs and this could reduce route reductions).

Reality check from Pelmet………All governments waste money but in the more modern era of the last couple of decades or so is that liberals/NDP do it on a much more massive scale than conservatives in Canada. So the only difference intelligent and most common sense choice is the party that is least worst(by a long shot).

Here is the thing man, you asked why people are upset. I pointed it out. It wasn’t the money. And you totally ignored that because it challenged your perception.

Also, I wouldn’t say 11 over in a forty zone is just a bit of speeding…. When I ask if anyone can provide a ticket for going 1 km over the speed limit with a camera or even going seven or eight over, the answer has been no so far. I regularly would go a few over and didn’t once get a ticket till I went 12 over once.


I really don’t think Doug cares about saving money overall, why would he do stupid things like cancel the beer store contract the year early? Why is he giving us a spa where the cost for the company to leave is in the millions but if we cancel the project that’s in the billions?

Why did he say he would be the most transparent premier ever and now he’s passing all sorts of changes to the freedom of information act?

You can bring up as many examples of the liberals pissing away money as you want, we are just holding the guy to the standard that he had set for himself!

That’s why this oh but the other side thing doesn’t work! We are holding Doug to the standard that he had set

[pelmet]

There are unfortunately very few people who are immune to the eventual temptations that come with position of power. It appears Doug Ford is not one of those people.

This debacle revealed where his priorities now lie, and shows that his time is up.

Overall, I like him way better than the alternatives.

They would go back to the massive spending for bike lanes(instead of ripping them out) and re-implement the speed camera tax that put municipal politicians back in control of endless tickets for being slightly over the speed limit. I see that his critics are blasting him for building more jails which means that they are a direct policy threat to the average person’s security.

Ford has definitely wasted money, but when you look at the others….it is unbelievable.

But I would like to thank Bob for showing how much he pretends to care about wasteful spending of 26 million for a business tool.

Here is the alternative that he offers……..9.2 BILLION dollars that the auditor general of Ontario said was wasted by the liberals in the way the rushed the implementation of the green energy act that was passed in 2011(and with inflation considered, it is a lot more dollars in today’s money). You can read the details in the link.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4237041/onta ... en-energy/


And they literally had a campaign slogan when they finally lost to Ford of… .”Sorry, not sorry”. Well, Ford does apologize when he makes a mistake. Is it sincere? Well at least it is not a totally arrogant statement such s We Are Not Sorry.

Thanks Bob, but the Cons are a way better option than any of the others although a different party leader could be an improvement). We all know what happens with wastwful spending when your thought process of politicians are in power. And thanks for letting us know where you stand on the insect food policy(scary). Thanks also for letting us know that there would not be any tax break on fuel given by you(a lot of pilots on this forum are concerned about their jobs and this could reduce route reductions).

Reality check from Pelmet………All governments waste money but in the more modern era of the last couple of decades or so is that liberals/NDP do it on a much more massive scale than conservatives in Canada. So the only difference intelligent and most common sense choice is the party that is least worst(by a long shot).

Here is the thing man, you asked why people are upset. I pointed it out. It wasn’t the money. And you totally ignored that because it challenged your perception.

Also, I wouldn’t say 11 over in a forty zone is just a bit of speeding…. When I ask if anyone can provide a ticket for going 1 km over the speed limit with a camera or even going seven or eight over, the answer has been no so far. I regularly would go a few over and didn’t once get a ticket till I went 12 over once.


I really don’t think Doug cares about saving money overall, why would he do stupid things like cancel the beer store contract the year early? Why is he giving us a spa where the cost for the company to leave is in the millions but if we cancel the project that’s in the billions?

Why did he say he would be the most transparent premier ever and now he’s passing all sorts of changes to the freedom of information act?

You can bring up as many examples of the liberals pissing away money as you want, we are just holding the guy to the standard that he had set for himself!

That’s why this oh but the other side thing doesn’t work! We are holding Doug to the standard that he had set

More like double standard.

Ford said it today in this video. Not a peep from Bob or LostAvi8tor or DanWec about the federal government buying bizjets or the Quebec government doing the same. But a conservative?.........It is the end of the world.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/general ... QH#details

Just double standard folks. Could someone find earlier posts showing the genuine concern of Bob, Lost, and Dan about the info below....

(AI search:In 2020, the Quebec government ordered two new Bombardier Challenger 650 jets for approximately CAD $107 million. In late 2025, the Québec Government Air Service (Service Aérien Gouvernemental) took delivery of an additional 2017-built Challenger 650, acquired in 2024 for CAD $28 million to support specialized, secure transport).

As for the wasting of other money that Ford has done such, as mentioned above. Like I said, he has wasted plenty. But it pales compared to what the liberals and NDP do, so he is the least worst by a long shot.

It can be quite entertaining listening to the speed enforcement types that want your money to go to the city. They say that it is not as if people are only going 1km/h over the limit. Nope, it is 11km/h over the limit because that is the speed at which the cameras are set to activate(and they were adding more and more and more cameras over time).

After all, look at this headline from Brampton confirming 11 km/h as the trigger......
https://www.insauga.com/speed-cameras-o ... -brampton/


Of course, what they don't remind you of is this headline a year or so earlier.......
https://www.insauga.com/speed-limits-no ... n-streets/

[lostav8r]

Overall, I like him way better than the alternatives.

They would go back to the massive spending for bike lanes(instead of ripping them out) and re-implement the speed camera tax that put municipal politicians back in control of endless tickets for being slightly over the speed limit. I see that his critics are blasting him for building more jails which means that they are a direct policy threat to the average person’s security.

Ford has definitely wasted money, but when you look at the others….it is unbelievable.

But I would like to thank Bob for showing how much he pretends to care about wasteful spending of 26 million for a business tool.

Here is the alternative that he offers……..9.2 BILLION dollars that the auditor general of Ontario said was wasted by the liberals in the way the rushed the implementation of the green energy act that was passed in 2011(and with inflation considered, it is a lot more dollars in today’s money). You can read the details in the link.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4237041/onta ... en-energy/


And they literally had a campaign slogan when they finally lost to Ford of… .”Sorry, not sorry”. Well, Ford does apologize when he makes a mistake. Is it sincere? Well at least it is not a totally arrogant statement such s We Are Not Sorry.

Thanks Bob, but the Cons are a way better option than any of the others although a different party leader could be an improvement). We all know what happens with wastwful spending when your thought process of politicians are in power. And thanks for letting us know where you stand on the insect food policy(scary). Thanks also for letting us know that there would not be any tax break on fuel given by you(a lot of pilots on this forum are concerned about their jobs and this could reduce route reductions).

Reality check from Pelmet………All governments waste money but in the more modern era of the last couple of decades or so is that liberals/NDP do it on a much more massive scale than conservatives in Canada. So the only difference intelligent and most common sense choice is the party that is least worst(by a long shot).

Here is the thing man, you asked why people are upset. I pointed it out. It wasn’t the money. And you totally ignored that because it challenged your perception.

Also, I wouldn’t say 11 over in a forty zone is just a bit of speeding…. When I ask if anyone can provide a ticket for going 1 km over the speed limit with a camera or even going seven or eight over, the answer has been no so far. I regularly would go a few over and didn’t once get a ticket till I went 12 over once.


I really don’t think Doug cares about saving money overall, why would he do stupid things like cancel the beer store contract the year early? Why is he giving us a spa where the cost for the company to leave is in the millions but if we cancel the project that’s in the billions?

Why did he say he would be the most transparent premier ever and now he’s passing all sorts of changes to the freedom of information act?

You can bring up as many examples of the liberals pissing away money as you want, we are just holding the guy to the standard that he had set for himself!

That’s why this oh but the other side thing doesn’t work! We are holding Doug to the standard that he had set

More like double standard.

Ford said it today in this video. Not a peep from Bob or LostAvi8tor or DanWec about the federal government buying bizjets or the Quebec government doing the same. But a conservative?.........It is the end of the world.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/general ... QH#details

Just double standard folks. Could someone find earlier posts showing the genuine concern of Bob, Lost, and Dan about the info below....

(AI search:In 2020, the Quebec government ordered two new Bombardier Challenger 650 jets for approximately CAD $107 million. In late 2025, the Québec Government Air Service (Service Aérien Gouvernemental) took delivery of an additional 2017-built Challenger 650, acquired in 2024 for CAD $28 million to support specialized, secure transport).

As for the wasting of other money that Ford has done such, as mentioned above. Like I said, he has wasted plenty. But it pales compared to what the liberals and NDP do, so he is the least worst by a long shot.

It can be quite entertaining listening to the speed enforcement types that want your money to go to the city. They say that it is not as if people are only going 1km/h over the limit. Nope, it is 11km/h over the limit because that is the speed at which the cameras are set to activate(and they were adding more and more and more cameras over time).

After all, look at this headline from Brampton confirming 11 km/h as the trigger......
https://www.insauga.com/speed-cameras-o ... -brampton/


Of course, what they don't remind you of is this headline a year or so earlier.......
https://www.insauga.com/speed-limits-no ... n-streets/

Again you're not reading what I'm saying at all.

Did the PM or Quebec premier make a big stink about how using the private plane is a no go, and then selling it? Which Doug did back in 2019? There is no "double standard" we're just holding him to what he said.


If he kept the provincial king air nobody would care. It's making a spectacle of getting rid of something wasteful then buying something that cost 10x as much a few years later.

Let's totally ignore Doug was the one who passed legislation to allow the cameras outside school zones.

In your own article the areas with lowered limits were a response to thousands of complaints from residents in those areas.

The city says there were over 2,400 traffic service requests from residents in 2021 and 2022 with a majority of the complaints relating to aggressive driving and speeding on residential streets.

[pelmet]

If he kept the provincial king air nobody would care. It's making a spectacle of getting rid of something wasteful then buying something that cost 10x as much a few years later.

Find me a political leader in the last century that hasn't gone back on his word or changed his mind.

Once again.....double standards.....unless yo think Trudeau will stick to a "modest ten billion dollar deficit for three years" after the conservatives left office with the federal budget pretty much balanced(I think it went up more than 10x).

First it was the money waste but now the reneging on a policy argument is being used. What will be next?

Anyways.....we have totally separate good news today and I would like to thank both conservative and NDP leaders out west for moving forward with year-round daylight savings time......finally. Time for the rest of North America to go to year round DST. Longer evenings in the winter. Love it(of course, now the fake news is warning us of the dangers).

[lostav8r]

If he kept the provincial king air nobody would care. It's making a spectacle of getting rid of something wasteful then buying something that cost 10x as much a few years later.

Find me a political leader in the last century that hasn't gone back on his word or changed his mind.

Once again.....double standards.....unless yo think Trudeau will stick to a "modest ten billion dollar deficit for three years" after the conservatives left office with the federal budget pretty much balanced(I think it went up more than 10x).

First it was the money waste but now the reneging on a policy argument is being used. What will be next?

Anyways.....we have totally separate good news today and I would like to thank both conservative and NDP leaders out west for moving forward with year-round daylight savings time......finally. Time for the rest of North America to go to year round DST. Longer evenings in the winter. Love it(of course, now the fake news is warning us of the dangers).

I can't think of many who make a big stink of changing a law then changing it back years later, and then complaining about getting called out.

I have plenty of gripes with how the Trudeau government ran things, my bigger beef is with populist politicians pretending to be for the little guy then doing everything to be the opposite.

[‘Bob’]

There are few things larger than “small” conservative governments.

The Harper government did not balance any budgets. He did the typical Conservative fire sale of debt-financed assets at a loss for a one time boost in the budget.

And dumb hick conservatives who have no idea of the concept of net worth see it as a win—just like per capita GDP that’s mostly locked up in corporate earnings and stock market indices that might be the direct results of job losses.

Who cares about a federal government buying planes? Every federal government in the world has them. Quebec? They pay a lot of taxes and it supports local jobs.

The point was exactly as I wrote it first hand. Ontario government buys big jet then gives it back not once but twice.

This has nothing to do with partisan lines as both Ford and Carney represent a form of centrist progressive conservatism that has been absent federally for 35 years. It’s only from the shrill rhetoric of the American style populism and demagoguery that PP and his shrinking party and supporter espouse that Carney seems left wing and only party label makes Ford any different.

It’s too bad PP couldn’t have taken a tiny step to the left. He probably would have won the easiest federal election in history. Good thing he benefitted from a “back room deal” that allowed him to remain in Parliament.

Go start your own whataboutism thread if it’s so important to you. Like the dairy cartel nobody here gives a @#$! about.

[1759]

When you receive the lion's share of the federal transfer payments, it's easy to afford the new shiny aircraft. Alberta bought and paid for.

[pelmet]

I have plenty of gripes with how the Trudeau government ran things, my bigger beef is with populist politicians pretending to be for the little guy then doing everything to be the opposite.

EVERYTHING? Please show how EVERYTHING he has done is pretending to be for the little guy but the opposite has been done.

I have a beef with posters that make exaggerated statement to an extreme degree. It destroys credibility.

If you want to say that it was foolish to allow speeding cameras, that is credible.

[pelmet]

There are few things larger than “small” conservative governments.

The Harper government did not balance any budgets. He did the typical Conservative fire sale of debt-financed assets at a loss for a one time boost in the budget.

And dumb hick conservatives who have no idea of the concept of net worth see it as a win—just like per capita GDP that’s mostly locked up in corporate earnings and stock market indices that might be the direct results of job losses.

Who cares about a federal government buying planes? Every federal government in the world has them. Quebec? They pay a lot of taxes and it supports local jobs.

The point was exactly as I wrote it first hand. Ontario government buys big jet then gives it back not once but twice.

This has nothing to do with partisan lines as both Ford and Carney represent a form of centrist progressive conservatism that has been absent federally for 35 years. It’s only from the shrill rhetoric of the American style populism and demagoguery that PP and his shrinking party and supporter espouse that Carney seems left wing and only party label makes Ford any different.

It’s too bad PP couldn’t have taken a tiny step to the left. He probably would have won the easiest federal election in history. Good thing he benefitted from a “back room deal” that allowed him to remain in Parliament.

Go start your own whataboutism thread if it’s so important to you. Like the dairy cartel nobody here gives a @#$! about.

All I am doing is proving that your arguments in multiple threads are fraudulent. Starting a whole thread about Ford and the jet saga but not a care in the world about Quebec doing it to a much greater degree....and now excusing it(they pay more taxes and it supports jobs when likely not one extra job was created/Quebec may very well collect less taxes overall than Ontario and is a smaller economy).

Don't worry Bob.....we know you are so concerned about the money spent on that Challenger. In reality(as proven by the rest of the insult-laden diatribe in your last post) just another fraud argument by a partisan pretending to care about an issue and if the liberals/NDP did the exact thing, you wouldn't have started this thread.

And I have loads of experience on the political discussion boards pointing out the complete hypocrisies of the deranged.

[Dry Guy]

Redistributing wealth never works because giving people money for nothing is negative training.

[pelmet]

Looking further into the speed camera issue......It turns out that the NDP initiated speed cameras in Ontario. The PC's stopped it. The Liberals were the ones who initiated their return with the PC's following through on it. At least the PC's realized that it was just becoming a massive tax grab and guess what......as Lostavi8tor would say.....supported the "little guy" and ended the program.

https://www.tvo.org/article/the-rise-an ... in-ontario

https://globalnews.ca/news/11441018/dou ... n-removal/

[pelmet]

This excise tax holiday is simply going to allow gas companies to jack up prices so what would be spent on roads and infrastructure is going to disappear into offshore accounts.

While Bob provides zero evidence of his argument(as usual), I am not able to provide a credible response as to whether or not what he says is accurate(although, I doubt it is fully true as he has a long history of intentionally misleading posts).

However, I did come across some info on what is a large part of the money you pay when putting gas in your car(or airplane). The story centers on Quebec fuel prices......

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/w ... v1#details

Going back in history, it appears that certain people make up lies about the gas companies.....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/compet ... s-1.525488

I do love my Enbridge and Suncor dividends(and large share price gain) like so many canadians that have benefitted).

Sorry Bob.....zero credibility again.

[flieslikeachicken]

I mean... what king of narcistic guy has his own name plastered on the side of a plane?

Are you referring to the AI generated images made by people who are anti-Ford in an attempt to make a reasonable government purchase look like personal greed?

[YYCAME]

Apparently the Quebec government doesn't have a private jet for the Premier? This article claims they only use them for medical transport and charter aircraft for their Premier.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal ... -9.7170866

[lostav8r]

I have plenty of gripes with how the Trudeau government ran things, my bigger beef is with populist politicians pretending to be for the little guy then doing everything to be the opposite.

EVERYTHING? Please show how EVERYTHING he has done is pretending to be for the little guy but the opposite has been done.

I have a beef with posters that make exaggerated statement to an extreme degree. It destroys credibility.

If you want to say that it was foolish to allow speeding cameras, that is credible.

I brought up speed cameras because he was the "problem" because he changed the laws, then he undid the law that allowed them in the first place. He is a populist first. How does allowing people to speed in neighborhoods help the little guy?

And good thing I'm not writing for you lmao, yes I'm exaggerating but that's because he keeps making a stink of how he's "for the little guy"

A lot of the projects he's announced or laws he's changed were to benefit a select group of companies, he has a lot of developer friends and when you follow the money a lot of proposals only benefit them. Why are we giving up public land to a company whose CFO bought Doug's sticker company?

Why does he talk about being transparent then announce he's changing the freedom of information act?

Why does the small government guy keep medaling in municipal affairs?