New hire experiences

[digits_]

Why? You don't believe me? Maybe you can look it up. I promise it's real. It was a policy grievance by CUPE to have a say on flight operations. They lost.

I don't don't believe you, I'm just curious about the context in which that happened. It sounds like a small thing that started out of a personal conflict between a FA and a pilot which then snowballed into a policy and us vs them fight. Or not. Which is why I'm curious about the details of the case, or some more background information.

This is 100% true and says it all about CUPE and the mindset within the FA Group. One fine day a 320 was going YZ to Florida (forget which airport) with a Hurricane off the coast. The service staff tried a coup, not wanting to work the flight, claiming it was unsafe. This eventually grew into AC CUPE demanding they be included in the full pre-flight briefing and hold a right to have the flight cancelled. The Captain, First Officer and Dispatcher were all happy to depart, but the FA's (with their esteemed knowledge of Meteorology) want the flight cancelled.

This worked its way to the CIRB and on THE DAY of the hearing CUPE pulled the case. The Captain of the Florida flight is still here and was doing up his tie to drive downtown Toronto when he got called that the hearing was cancelled.

Ask yourself this, would this ever happen at United, Delta, British Airways, Lufthansa? The answer is absolutely not and the offending FA's would be fired.

Interesting, thank you for the background information.

I'm a bit puzzled about this part though:

The service staff tried a coup, not wanting to work the flight, claiming it was unsafe. This eventually grew into AC CUPE demanding they be included in the full pre-flight briefing and hold a right to have the flight cancelled.

How did it grow into AC CUPE getting involved?

I am sure it's not the first time in the airline's history that an FA wasn't comfortable going to a certain destionation, be it for weather or security reasons. What happened that this turned into a fight with the union?

Was it upper management that tried to punish the FAs?

[flying4dollars]

In the modern age nobody wants to serve you. Nobody wants to cook or deliver food to strangers. Nobody even wants to pour you a drink, or take your plate away. The modern world has told us this servitude is slavery. Anyone doing this is resentful. They're going to take it out on you eventually one way or another, 100% of the time.

Yet tipping option starts at 18% now

[TheStig]

I don't don't believe you, I'm just curious about the context in which that happened. It sounds like a small thing that started out of a personal conflict between a FA and a pilot which then snowballed into a policy and us vs them fight. Or not. Which is why I'm curious about the details of the case, or some more background information.

This is 100% true and says it all about CUPE and the mindset within the FA Group. One fine day a 320 was going YZ to Florida (forget which airport) with a Hurricane off the coast. The service staff tried a coup, not wanting to work the flight, claiming it was unsafe. This eventually grew into AC CUPE demanding they be included in the full pre-flight briefing and hold a right to have the flight cancelled. The Captain, First Officer and Dispatcher were all happy to depart, but the FA's (with their esteemed knowledge of Meteorology) want the flight cancelled.

This worked its way to the CIRB and on THE DAY of the hearing CUPE pulled the case. The Captain of the Florida flight is still here and was doing up his tie to drive downtown Toronto when he got called that the hearing was cancelled.

Ask yourself this, would this ever happen at United, Delta, British Airways, Lufthansa? The answer is absolutely not and the offending FA's would be fired.

Interesting, thank you for the background information.

I'm a bit puzzled about this part though:

The service staff tried a coup, not wanting to work the flight, claiming it was unsafe. This eventually grew into AC CUPE demanding they be included in the full pre-flight briefing and hold a right to have the flight cancelled.

How did it grow into AC CUPE getting involved?

I am sure it's not the first time in the airline's history that an FA wasn't comfortable going to a certain destionation, be it for weather or security reasons. What happened that this turned into a fight with the union?

Was it upper management that tried to punish the FAs?

I'm not familiar with this specific example, but the FA's have been increasingly using "The right to refuse dangerous work" which is within the CLC and worth a read through if you google it. Investigations into these matters are done by work place committees or representatives which is why the union would be involved. One of the many difficulties in dealing with these issues is that while the investigation is conducted into the 'dangerous work' the company cannot assign someone else to do the work.

All I can say is that it's very important to choose your words and phrases carefully when briefing the FA's about any possible challenges you may expect to encounter. There is a balance between being too dismissive about a crew member's concerns and feeding fuel into a fire.

[digits_]

I'm not familiar with this specific example, but the FA's have been increasingly using "The right to refuse dangerous work" which is within the CLC and worth a read through if you google it. Investigations into these matters are done by work place committees or representatives which is why the union would be involved. One of the many difficulties in dealing with these issues is that while the investigation is conducted into the 'dangerous work' the company cannot assign someone else to do the work.

Thank you, it makes much more sense now. I can see how that last part might make things very interesting...

[Stu Pidasso]

I don't don't believe you, I'm just curious about the context in which that happened. It sounds like a small thing that started out of a personal conflict between a FA and a pilot which then snowballed into a policy and us vs them fight. Or not. Which is why I'm curious about the details of the case, or some more background information.

This is 100% true and says it all about CUPE and the mindset within the FA Group. One fine day a 320 was going YZ to Florida (forget which airport) with a Hurricane off the coast. The service staff tried a coup, not wanting to work the flight, claiming it was unsafe. This eventually grew into AC CUPE demanding they be included in the full pre-flight briefing and hold a right to have the flight cancelled. The Captain, First Officer and Dispatcher were all happy to depart, but the FA's (with their esteemed knowledge of Meteorology) want the flight cancelled.

This worked its way to the CIRB and on THE DAY of the hearing CUPE pulled the case. The Captain of the Florida flight is still here and was doing up his tie to drive downtown Toronto when he got called that the hearing was cancelled.

Ask yourself this, would this ever happen at United, Delta, British Airways, Lufthansa? The answer is absolutely not and the offending FA's would be fired.

Interesting, thank you for the background information.

I'm a bit puzzled about this part though:

The service staff tried a coup, not wanting to work the flight, claiming it was unsafe. This eventually grew into AC CUPE demanding they be included in the full pre-flight briefing and hold a right to have the flight cancelled.

How did it grow into AC CUPE getting involved?

I am sure it's not the first time in the airline's history that an FA wasn't comfortable going to a certain destionation, be it for weather or security reasons. What happened that this turned into a fight with the union?

Was it upper management that tried to punish the FAs?

I don't know the gory details Digits, but will say CUPE will jump on every opportunity to "some how" push the (perceived) authority of a FA. The push to the CIRB was 100% CUPE, with the company and ACPA on side for the defense.

[Stu Pidasso]

I don't don't believe you, I'm just curious about the context in which that happened. It sounds like a small thing that started out of a personal conflict between a FA and a pilot which then snowballed into a policy and us vs them fight. Or not. Which is why I'm curious about the details of the case, or some more background information.

This is 100% true and says it all about CUPE and the mindset within the FA Group. One fine day a 320 was going YZ to Florida (forget which airport) with a Hurricane off the coast. The service staff tried a coup, not wanting to work the flight, claiming it was unsafe. This eventually grew into AC CUPE demanding they be included in the full pre-flight briefing and hold a right to have the flight cancelled. The Captain, First Officer and Dispatcher were all happy to depart, but the FA's (with their esteemed knowledge of Meteorology) want the flight cancelled.

This worked its way to the CIRB and on THE DAY of the hearing CUPE pulled the case. The Captain of the Florida flight is still here and was doing up his tie to drive downtown Toronto when he got called that the hearing was cancelled.

Ask yourself this, would this ever happen at United, Delta, British Airways, Lufthansa? The answer is absolutely not and the offending FA's would be fired.

Interesting, thank you for the background information.

I'm a bit puzzled about this part though:

The service staff tried a coup, not wanting to work the flight, claiming it was unsafe. This eventually grew into AC CUPE demanding they be included in the full pre-flight briefing and hold a right to have the flight cancelled.

How did it grow into AC CUPE getting involved?

I am sure it's not the first time in the airline's history that an FA wasn't comfortable going to a certain destionation, be it for weather or security reasons. What happened that this turned into a fight with the union?

Was it upper management that tried to punish the FAs?

I don't know the gory details Digits, but will say CUPE will jump on every opportunity to "some how" push the (perceived) authority of a FA. The push to the CIRB was 100% CUPE, with the company and ACPA on side for the defense.

[Stu Pidasso]

Hey there, interested in hearing recent(ish) hires experiences. Considering applying and wondering how it has been for new hires. I have read through many of the forums and am hoping to hear some first hand experiences. General experiences, things you wish you knew before applying, goods, bads, etc. I would be commuting and would also gladly take any advice or insight on any aspects of this.

Thanks so much in advance

Sorry for the hornets nest - here is my take;

1. SADLY with the state of being a Professional Pilot in Canada, Air Canada is hands down (by a country mile) the best job in the country.

2. The glory days of Cathay and Emirates are long gone; you would be nuts to even consider them.

3. You can earn 400K as a VFR Tower Controller in YVR, no investment in training and education. Might want to consider a career change - no IDEA how it has gone SO WRONG.

4. if you choose AC, stay a thousand miles away from the service staff. Never engage them without a witness (another Pilot,) don't socialize, keep it professional and courteous.

5. Wish you had a green card 3 years ago and could have got the hell out of here to a US Major.

[Stu Pidasso]

You losers still upset the FA turned you down?

Here's an idea - Who gives a shit? Do I care what inflight does? Nope. Only here could you have "professional pilots" complaining about flight attendants

LAME! Happily Married to a highly educated woman with a successful Professional Career. Maybe I should go hit on the McDonalds Cashier, she has the same resume as an AC FA.

[Mac08]

You losers still upset the FA turned you down?

Here's an idea - Who gives a shit? Do I care what inflight does? Nope. Only here could you have "professional pilots" complaining about flight attendants

LAME! Happily Married to a highly educated woman with a successful Professional Career. Maybe I should go hit on the McDonalds Cashier, she has the same resume as an AC FA.

Hard to believe the high educated part when she's married to a loser who cries on online forums about inflight crew. I bet you care what the McDonalds Cashier thinks of you as well.

It's ok dude, some day you'll get over being turned down on the layover because she'd rather screw the FO.

[digits_]

but will say CUPE will jump on every opportunity to "some how" push the (perceived) authority of a FA. The push to the CIRB was 100% CUPE, with the company and ACPA on side for the defense.

(Unrelated to the main topic here, apologies)

You've got to admit though, sounds like a much more vicious union than ALPA.

How is the FA - company relationship? Is there just as much contract weaseling going on on that side?

[Mac08]

but will say CUPE will jump on every opportunity to "some how" push the (perceived) authority of a FA. The push to the CIRB was 100% CUPE, with the company and ACPA on side for the defense.

(Unrelated to the main topic here, apologies)

You've got to admit though, sounds like a much more vicious union than ALPA.

How is the FA - company relationship? Is there just as much contract weaseling going on on that side?

The company screws all groups just as hard.

[FL030]

A lot of FAs are wonderful people to work with though. The vast majority of them actually. CUPE may have flaws but they stood up to Section 107 after our union was too chicken to do it. For that all Canadian organized labour groups owe them a huge thank you.

[flieslikeachicken]

A lot of FAs are wonderful people to work with though. The vast majority of them actually. CUPE may have flaws but they stood up to Section 107 after our union was too chicken to do it. For that all Canadian organized labour groups owe them a huge thank you.

All I think of when I hear CUPE is Fred Hahn. I would be embarrassed to have a union that associates with that clown.

[PointNine]

This toxicity between employee groups at AC isn’t even unique to Air Canada. It’s basically a reflection of Canada as a whole.

Here’s a simple example that’ll showcase the deeper systemic issue.

Imagine sitting at a red light in a beat up Ford Pinto. Wife beside you looking fat and rough, obese kid in the back seat, life clearly not going according to plan.

Now imagine a Ferrari pulls up next to you. Guy driving it is relaxed, minding his own business, 10/10 woman in the passenger seat (or dude if you identify that way).

What’s your honest first reaction?

Probably not positive.

Maybe a scoff. Maybe a sarcastic comment. Maybe just resentment sitting quietly in your head while you convince yourself life is unfair.

My favorite reaction is the one who says "I wouldn't give a @#$!" which is such a passive aggressive Canadian comment when ALL they do is give a @#$! deep down inside, but convince themselves they don't, so they don't off themselves. Moving on...

So here’s the question.

Is the Ferrari guy the problem? Or is your reaction to him the problem?

Because if you ask the Pinto guy why his life looks the way it does, you’ll hear every excuse imaginable.

If you ask the Ferrari guy, he’ll tell you the Pinto guy is drowning in excuses and that’s exactly why he’s still sitting there bitter.

That dynamic plays out every single day in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal at every other traffic light.

Now obviously Canadians love sympathizing with the Pinto guy.

“What if he didn’t have the same opportunities?”
“What if he has disabilities?”
“What if life wasn’t fair to him?”

That’s the default Canadian mindset. Endless justification for why someone isn’t succeeding.

But the part Canadians hate admitting is maybe the Ferrari guy clawed his way out of disaster. Maybe he was staring homelessness in the face at one point and decided he’d never live like that again.

Instead, people automatically hate the guy who has more than them.

That mentality is especially strong in Canada right now because people are watching their quality of life collapse in real time while a minority around them appears to be winning. Savings shrinking, housing exploding, morale dead, and nobody wants to openly say they’re sick of watching their neighborhoods inundated by foreigners and dalilwal dancing turban's.

So what happens?

Someone points out toxicity between departments at AC, which is honestly just a symptom of broader Canadian culture, and immediately the apologetic Canadian responses show up.

“You’re the problem.”
“If you don’t like it, leave.”
“Go fly for Emirates then.”

Sound familiar?

That’s the Canadian attitude in a nutshell. If you point out dysfunction, YOU become the issue. The system itself is apparently never allowed to be criticized. Funny enough, we are such an open society with desire for feedback to improve. RIGHT?!? Wrong. Just at face value. Deep down, we hate feedback.

Now before people twist this into some worship the rich bullshit.

No, not every idiot with a Ferrari and a gold digger is worth admiring. @#$! no. Been there, lived that life, had the fun, and it honestly means less than people think it does.

But here’s reality.

FA’s and pilots are not equal in marketplace value.

That doesn’t mean one group has less human worth. It means the marketplace values different roles differently.

The issue isn’t that FA’s don’t understand that deep down. The issue is a lot of them feel massively underappreciated because they were sold this fantasy that putting on the uniform made them “special.”

Usually a career pursued by people who don't feel special TYPICALLY due to messed up parents, upbringings, experiences, etc. So the concept of the UNIFORM and TRAVEL makes them think this could be THEIR win in their miserable lives.

Then reality hits.

They realize where they actually sit in the hierarchy, and some completely lose their minds over it. Especially when influencers and OnlyFans girls are flying around in Gucci and Birkins while some 50,000 seniority number FA is reusing the same thong because crew scheduling destroyed their month; staring down 25 years of Reserve in YVR.

People are not equal economically. That’s reality. Canadian's are trying to equalize the market place, but the reality is, you can't. Otherwise it's no longer a market.

Human rights wise? Yes, everyone is equal.

But those are two completely different conversations.

Should cabin crew getting J class deadheads be treated like some human rights issue? No.

Should cabin crew be able to bump pilots out of commutes through seniority pass systems? Also no.

Should cabin crew get the first access to hotel rooms instead of the pilots? No.

Yet AC treats a lot of that as perfectly acceptable.

And if you disagree with the system?

Well, according to the Canadian mindset, YOU are now the problem for noticing it.

“How dare you say anything, Stu.”



Thank @#$! I spent 25 years at EK, came back, grabbed the 12 month upgrade, and now I’m basically on the way out toward retirement.

Sure, younger guys will celebrate older guys like me leaving the industry.

But here’s the funny part.

I still got the Ferrari.
I still got the 10/10 flight attendant without an HR case.
I am married happily.
My one kid just got into Yale, the other just got scouted to hopefully hit the NHL draft... even if he won't, he has other successes brewing.
My wife is hot (15 years younger)
I've made millions from the disposable cash I've had.
I am leaving AC at 55 just to get my CWIPP and pad my family trust so that my kids have an even better life later
So many more experiences and memories I've made with my friends and family I can't even name. But I am in my 50's and look younger than most of my FO's in their 30's. So I like to think I lived a good life.

Now for AC, I dislike 10% of my colleagues in the right seat, I dislike 50% of my colleagues in the cabin. I dislike 80% of my colleagues at the gate.

But you keep celebrating your WIN by thinking I am the problem when all of you are terrified to even ask the girl at 3L out for coffee because you think HR is hiding behind the galley curtain waiting to end your career, only to find out that you even assuming the girl at 3L was a girl is now the ACTUAL hr case cause how DARE you ask ''her'' for ''her'' number when she's a non binary.

So keep celebrating guys like me retiring. What you're left with is much much worse than guys like me, Stu, and altiplano calling it out for what it actually is.

Stu is absolutely on point.

Like Altiplano says (even though we have a dislike for one and another on here), some FA's are absolutely great. 50% are not.

As a new hire, if you choose AC, it's not for the job satisfaction. It's for the other plays that come along with it if Canadian life is a life you still value. If not, go out and explore the world until you find a place you enjoy calling home. The risk? You'll maybe be sitting in a Ferrari at a traffic light while Iran sends a SHAHEED 214 into the Fairmont hotel you were about to go and bang that Russian escort at.

Sorry if this post came off classless. Those of you who understand the deeper meaning I'm conveying understand exactly what it is I am saying and appreciate the comedy behind it.

Does the 50 some year old me actually think I am better than anyone? @#$! no. But I took a lot of risks unlike my Canadian peers, and many of them paid off. I also just witnessed a friend take a DEC risk at EK only to have nukes land 10nm away from his house.

So the million dollar question, do you take a risk and go after what you have in your mind, or do you sell yourself to AC and ignore the BS as a means to stay happy and fulfilled? Neither is better than the other, it's all a personal choice based on your personality style.

Pick your lane, but don't scoff at the guy who doesn't, and ends up having everything you thought was impossible.

That last sentence could really help advance a lot of Canadian's out of their shitty mentalities.

Let's be real, no one will read this post so I am going to go and shine the sunlight on my ass hole here at Lake Simcoe for Test boosting. Try it, it works wonders on us toxic men post 50. Use discretion if you actually try it, I am a pilot, not a medical professional.

I have flown with him and now I am even more excited to fly together more as I can agree with most of what he said.

One thing though I hope pilots will realize: CWIPP is a scam and we should eb able to opt out and do normal RRSP, cash clear the difference as salary for those salaries above the 18% RRSP threshold. Total money for each person will be more, I did the math and I know my shit. But most people here dont seem to get that. Only the pension from before 2014 was actually worth something. Remember CWIPP is a company making tons of money on YOUR money, you could keep it. Having to wait till 60 at min (or deferral if you wanna go early) is a huge scam.

And lets be honest, who wants to be a button pusher at air canuck till 60 if you could go at 50 by drawing 4% of your rrsp, sounds pretty aweful.

[apples2apples]

Ok...show your math because I dont doubt it.

People see the big CWIPP payouts for the young folks but forget about how much they contributed to get it.

It wasn't cheap.

[PointNine]

Ok...show your math because I dont doubt it.

People see the big CWIPP payouts for the young folks but forget about how much they contributed to get it.

It wasn't cheap.

You can login and do your own calculations on https://airlinecontract.com/ and adjust for your own career. You loose a lot with CWIPP, this calculator doesn't show the amount you would get if the amount above the max RRSP cap was paid as a salary.

Cheers

[Dry Guy]

A lot of FAs are wonderful people to work with though. The vast majority of them actually. CUPE may have flaws but they stood up to Section 107 after our union was too chicken to do it. For that all Canadian organized labour groups owe them a huge thank you.

The federal government is currently working very quickly to strengthen labour laws so no federally regulated employees will be able to strike again. We missed our one chance to obtain a world class contract last time and won't have the leverage ever again.

[PointNine]

A lot of FAs are wonderful people to work with though. The vast majority of them actually. CUPE may have flaws but they stood up to Section 107 after our union was too chicken to do it. For that all Canadian organized labour groups owe them a huge thank you.

The federal government is currently working very quickly to strengthen labour laws so no federally regulated employees will be able to strike again. We missed our one chance to obtain a world class contract last time and won't have the leverage ever again.

We don't have control over politics. If we really want to be independent from this we just have to build another career path in aviation. Any ideas? I am also fed up by this whole unreliable union and corporation stuff, Canadian egality culture, potholes, taxes and all. But I also don't see another job that can pay as well in this country with less than 15 days of work, sick days and no emails when out of office.
Any ideas please post here for consideration.

[Daniel Cooper]

The federal government is currently working very quickly to strengthen labour laws so no federally regulated employees will be able to strike again.

It will take a general strike by all affected unions at the same time for any chance to reverse this.

Any ideas please post here for consideration.

Alberta separation and absorption by the US followed by other provinces. That will give us access to US unionized jobs that are better protected from government interference.

[digits_]

Any ideas please post here for consideration.

Alberta separation and absorption by the US followed by other provinces. That will give us access to US unionized jobs that are better protected from government interference.

I will admit that attempting/hoping to move to the US for better labor protection is certainly an interesting strategy!

[Daniel Cooper]

I'm actually thinking of cashing out my bank account before next negotiations heat up. Just in case.

[QKZXKV]

I'm actually thinking of cashing out my bank account before next negotiations heat up. Just in case.

Yes we've gathered that off your other replies as well

[Daniel Cooper]

You laugh but not worrying about being debanked means one less thing they can threaten you with to force you back to work.

[7ECA]

You laugh but not worrying about being debanked means one less thing they can threaten you with to force you back to work.

You do realize that all banks have withdrawal limits, right? You can't just walk in and get every last dime in your account handed over to you in a lump sum. Unless of course you're closing your account to transfer your business elsewhere... but then you're handed a cheque. Where are you going to go with a cheque to cash it?

Oh crap, that's right... another bank.

[Dry Guy]

Incorrect. You can withdraw your money in cash. It just takes a few days for them to order enough cash for you.