Back at the taxpayer trough....

[Realitychex]

Having yet to repay a dime of their taxpayer funded LEEFF $270.5m "loan", Porter is back at the taxpayer trough, this time for another $125m, a sum that one can safely assume will also never be repaid.

When they were telling the gov't the cash was "urgently" required, I guess they were serious.

https://ceefc-cfuec.ca/approved-loans-lasr/

Very quietly, the GoC are now the lenders of last resort to two, and likely very soon, three cash sucking airlines.

Fuel is pushing us$4.00 a gallon again. I wonder what happens come October?

More taxpayer cash hand outs?

I wonder how many life saving MRI's $125m would pay for?

[DanWEC]

Yeah yeah, made the same post in the Transat forum. But doesn't the fact that now half of the established, major airlines in Canada need funding, and the largest one of the other half already went bankrupt, point further to the systemic issues of operating under the Canadian government instead?

[Realitychex]

Its 2026. What happened at AC 15+ years ago is ancient history.

The only airlines at the trough are Transat, Porter and soon enough, Flair.

The other two have publicly said they have no need or interest in the handout.

That these three are at the trough should surprise no one.

That they are in need of cash during the most profitable period of the year should raise eyebrows.

If you aren't printing cash in July and August in Canada, its game over.

What will their cash situations look like in the latter half of October?

How much more cash will the feds pump into these three airlines to keep them going?

And why?

[flieslikeachicken]

Its 2026. What happened at AC 15+ years ago is ancient history.

The only airlines at the trough are Transat, Porter and soon enough, Flair.

The other two have publicly said they have no need or interest in the handout.

That these three are at the trough should surprise no one.

That they are in need of cash during the most profitable period of the year should raise eyebrows.

If you aren't printing cash in July and August in Canada, its game over.

What will their cash situations look like in the latter half of October?

How much more cash will the feds pump into these three airlines to keep them going?

And why?

Transat is not producing a profit. Porter is currently in the process of taking on new aircraft and just finished pumping hundreds of millions into a new airport terminal.

Porter's need for funding may be a sign that they are short on cashflow, but it might also just be a sign that they have tied up their cash in another asset.

[Speedbrakes]

It's not even worth wasting your time on this guy. Someone at Porter slept with his wife or his mom or both and he has a hate-on for Porter. Nothing you say will convince him Porter isn't going bankrupt tomorrow.

Move on. Don't feed the trolls.

[rudder]

$150M is about 10 days of fuel expense for AC. In other words - a drop in the bucket.

However, for others who are either cash strapped or just want to borrow $$$ at a grossly discounted interest rate, then I guess a deal too good to pass up.

The Liberal government believe that propping up every existing carrier is the appropriate strategy to sustain competition. I am guessing that there may be some economists that would differ in opinion but they weren’t handed the keys to the vault.

[FurHat]

The Liberal government believe that propping up every existing carrier is the appropriate strategy to sustain competition. I am guessing that there may be some economists that would differ in opinion but they weren’t handed the keys to the vault.

They know that large, high profile companies going bankrupt during the busiest time of the year doesn't support their "everything is fine and we are great at managing the economy" message.

[Hangry]

There is a very big difference between public and private companies. I cannot fathom why the Canadian government would give a dime to the Deluce’s. Can’t pay the bills? Close up shop. Wish Porter all the best but it’s a family shop. Ridiculous they would receive public funds.

[CaptDukeNukem]

There is a very big difference between public and private companies. I cannot fathom why the Canadian government would give a dime to the Deluce’s. Can’t pay the bills? Close up shop. Wish Porter all the best but it’s a family shop. Ridiculous they would receive public funds.

You mean a loan to offset higher gas prices that comes with a signup fee and interest?

I personally don’t think porter is broke and asking for handouts. Rather, this is a facility to use for funds during an expansion and the people at the table have thought this out. Hopefully.

Also, air Canada is not a government owned crown corp, or owned by the government so whether or not public funds are used on “the flag”, or porter or WestJet. it’s kinda all the same. All airlines that meet the extremely strict criteria get to choose to apply for it or not. It’s a place to borrow money to help an airline out.

The feds made $126 million profit from the 500 million dollar air Canada share purchase just a few years ago. It’s was an investment, so is this.

[Realitychex]

Any insight as to the profit the GoC made off the $270.5m gift they provided Porter under the LLEEFF program?

Perhaps a better question is how much of the principle and interest from said "loan" has Porter paid back?

Here's a hint. It's less than a cup of coffee... at 1982 prices.

In the real world, sources of cash dry up when recipients of loans don't make any effort to pay back what is owed. Word gets around very quickly.

Thus the reason for their pounding on the doors of the Feds describing their need for cash as "urgent".

A previous poster was correct. The GoC does not want an airline(s) to collapse during the summer. That'd be horribly inconsistent with the narrative they"re selling.

The $125m will help underwrite the beating Porter are taking on their YHU flights to, with a couple of exceptions, everywhere.

[8895]

Any insight as to the profit the GoC made off the $270.5m gift they provided Porter under the LLEEFF program?

Perhaps a better question is how much of the principle and interest from said "loan" has Porter paid back?

Here's a hint. It's less than a cup of coffee... at 1982 prices.

In the real world, sources of cash dry up when recipients of loans don't make any effort to pay back what is owed. Word gets around very quickly.

Thus the reason for their pounding on the doors of the Feds describing their need for cash as "urgent".

A previous poster was correct. The GoC does not want an airline(s) to collapse during the summer. That'd be horribly inconsistent with the narrative they"re selling.

The $125m will help underwrite the beating Porter are taking on their YHU flights to, with a couple of exceptions, everywhere.

Hey jimbo I know you got let go from WJ but it’s very obvious you’re anti porter. For anyone reading this that’s unaware, this clown is on the airlines.net forum constantly calling doomsday for porter. A lot of people have him muted. Sounds like he enjoys carpet bombing the forms here too.

[pelmet]

Any insight as to the profit the GoC made off the $270.5m gift they provided Porter under the LLEEFF program?

Perhaps a better question is how much of the principle and interest from said "loan" has Porter paid back?

Here's a hint. It's less than a cup of coffee... at 1982 prices.

In the real world, sources of cash dry up when recipients of loans don't make any effort to pay back what is owed. Word gets around very quickly.

Thus the reason for their pounding on the doors of the Feds describing their need for cash as "urgent".

A previous poster was correct. The GoC does not want an airline(s) to collapse during the summer. That'd be horribly inconsistent with the narrative they"re selling.

The $125m will help underwrite the beating Porter are taking on their YHU flights to, with a couple of exceptions, everywhere.

Hey jimbo I know you got let go from WJ but it’s very obvious you’re anti porter. For anyone reading this that’s unaware, this clown is on the airlines.net forum constantly calling doomsday for porter. A lot of people have him muted. Sounds like he enjoys carpet bombing the forms here too.

Is that the guy that was spying on AC and used to be on the AEF forum bashing Porter all the time. Was it Dagger?

[Realitychex]

Any insight as to the profit the GoC made off the $270.5m gift they provided Porter under the LLEEFF program?

Perhaps a better question is how much of the principle and interest from said "loan" has Porter paid back?

Here's a hint. It's less than a cup of coffee... at 1982 prices.

In the real world, sources of cash dry up when recipients of loans don't make any effort to pay back what is owed. Word gets around very quickly.

Thus the reason for their pounding on the doors of the Feds describing their need for cash as "urgent".

A previous poster was correct. The GoC does not want an airline(s) to collapse during the summer. That'd be horribly inconsistent with the narrative they"re selling.

The $125m will help underwrite the beating Porter are taking on their YHU flights to, with a couple of exceptions, everywhere.

Hey jimbo I know you got let go from WJ but it’s very obvious you’re anti porter. For anyone reading this that’s unaware, this clown is on the airlines.net forum constantly calling doomsday for porter. A lot of people have him muted. Sounds like he enjoys carpet bombing the forms here too.

Just pointing out the obvious.

My sources tell me the Porter “loan” was funded quite a bit before Transat’s. Their need for funds was described as “urgent”. It was provided in one tranche, rather than dribbled out monthly through the end of Oct as the program was intended.

Profitable airlines don’t require government financial intervention, from a program specifically designed for them, before the start of their peak earnings season.

My sources also report Porter brass have acknowledged their disappointment with YHU to Toronto / Hamilton. Even on long weekends, it’s weak, with a very noticeable directional trend.

My sources also report YHU to BC and Alberta are strong, (and massively skew YHU l/f’s). YWG, YYG and YHZ are weak. YQM is ok and YYT is marginally above water.

During peak summer travel season, everything should be humming nicely. What happens post Labor Day as the propensity and demand for domestic travel from YHU falls off the cliff? It can’t be replaced by low yield sun flying as the YHU is legally a “domestic only” operation.

Fuel is now averaging us$3.83 a gallon. Delta paid $2.25 a gallon in 4Q 2025.

Lest anyone forget, Porter was pounding the street in late 3Q / early 4Q 2025, eventually cutting a complicated debt deal to raise the $300m they needed, with that much lower fuel cost, to make it through to May 2026. There were some very precarious days.

One would have to be an optimist to think fuel will be dropping back to $2.25 anytime soon.

How much more government money will Porter, Transat and others need to make it through another winter?

10 years at WestJet, which for me is 3 international airlines and 22+ years ago. It might be time for some to quit living in the past.

BTW, after 22+ years, the guy who was “let go” still enjoys full flight benefits.

[8895]

Any insight as to the profit the GoC made off the $270.5m gift they provided Porter under the LLEEFF program?

Perhaps a better question is how much of the principle and interest from said "loan" has Porter paid back?

Here's a hint. It's less than a cup of coffee... at 1982 prices.

In the real world, sources of cash dry up when recipients of loans don't make any effort to pay back what is owed. Word gets around very quickly.

Thus the reason for their pounding on the doors of the Feds describing their need for cash as "urgent".

A previous poster was correct. The GoC does not want an airline(s) to collapse during the summer. That'd be horribly inconsistent with the narrative they"re selling.

The $125m will help underwrite the beating Porter are taking on their YHU flights to, with a couple of exceptions, everywhere.

Hey jimbo I know you got let go from WJ but it’s very obvious you’re anti porter. For anyone reading this that’s unaware, this clown is on the airlines.net forum constantly calling doomsday for porter. A lot of people have him muted. Sounds like he enjoys carpet bombing the forms here too.

Just pointing out the obvious.

My sources tell me the Porter “loan” was funded quite a bit before Transat’s. Their need for funds was described as “urgent”. It was provided in one tranche, rather than dribbled out monthly through the end of Oct as the program was intended.

Profitable airlines don’t require government financial intervention, from a program specifically designed for them, before the start of their peak earnings season.

My sources also report Porter brass have acknowledged their disappointment with YHU to Toronto / Hamilton. Even on long weekends, it’s weak, with a very noticeable directional trend.

My sources also report YHU to BC and Alberta are strong, (and massively skew YHU l/f’s). YWG, YYG and YHZ are weak. YQM is ok and YYT is marginally above water.

During peak summer travel season, everything should be humming nicely. What happens post Labor Day as the propensity and demand for domestic travel from YHU falls off the cliff? It can’t be replaced by low yield sun flying as the YHU is legally a “domestic only” operation.

Fuel is now averaging us$3.83 a gallon. Delta paid $2.25 a gallon in 4Q 2025.

Lest anyone forget, Porter was pounding the street in late 3Q / early 4Q 2025, eventually cutting a complicated debt deal to raise the $300m they needed, with that much lower fuel cost, to make it through to May 2026. There were some very precarious days.

One would have to be an optimist to think fuel will be dropping back to $2.25 anytime soon.

How much more government money will Porter, Transat and others need to make it through another winter?

10 years at WestJet, which for me is 3 international airlines and 22+ years ago. It might be time for some to quit living in the past.

BTW, after 22+ years, the guy who was “let go” still enjoys full flight benefits.

A brand new terminal opens at an airport and you think it’s a failure because loads aren’t full on every route?…. LOL no wonder you were let go. I’ve kept an eye on loads everywhere for quite some time now, pretty in line with industry averages. Think on the other website you were bashing LGA loads for example and they’re VERY full when I look at them. You make far too many assumptions to try and justify your flawed logic. Might want a reality check there.

AC might be a revenue machine thanks to the government handing them the industry before deregulation, but like anything that used to be (or still is) government, it’s bloated. Their recent margins show that. For someone who pretends to be a competent expert on this industry it’s strange that you point to current fuel prices having such a detrimental effect on a company using fuel efficient aircraft vs a bloated company using mostly dated metal.

Only thing saving WJ right now is having monopolies on western markets, no one wants to fly on them if given a choice. With their lower fares I imagine they’re most affected by the middle eat conflict.

You really need a hobby aside from shilling for a declining airline.

[pelmet]

Any insight as to the profit the GoC made off the $270.5m gift they provided Porter under the LLEEFF program?

Perhaps a better question is how much of the principle and interest from said "loan" has Porter paid back?

Here's a hint. It's less than a cup of coffee... at 1982 prices.

In the real world, sources of cash dry up when recipients of loans don't make any effort to pay back what is owed. Word gets around very quickly.

Thus the reason for their pounding on the doors of the Feds describing their need for cash as "urgent".

A previous poster was correct. The GoC does not want an airline(s) to collapse during the summer. That'd be horribly inconsistent with the narrative they"re selling.

The $125m will help underwrite the beating Porter are taking on their YHU flights to, with a couple of exceptions, everywhere.

Hey jimbo I know you got let go from WJ but it’s very obvious you’re anti porter. For anyone reading this that’s unaware, this clown is on the airlines.net forum constantly calling doomsday for porter. A lot of people have him muted. Sounds like he enjoys carpet bombing the forms here too.

Just pointing out the obvious.

My sources tell me the Porter “loan” was funded quite a bit before Transat’s. Their need for funds was described as “urgent”. It was provided in one tranche, rather than dribbled out monthly through the end of Oct as the program was intended.

Profitable airlines don’t require government financial intervention, from a program specifically designed for them, before the start of their peak earnings season.

My sources also report Porter brass have acknowledged their disappointment with YHU to Toronto / Hamilton. Even on long weekends, it’s weak, with a very noticeable directional trend.

My sources also report YHU to BC and Alberta are strong, (and massively skew YHU l/f’s). YWG, YYG and YHZ are weak. YQM is ok and YYT is marginally above water.

During peak summer travel season, everything should be humming nicely. What happens post Labor Day as the propensity and demand for domestic travel from YHU falls off the cliff? It can’t be replaced by low yield sun flying as the YHU is legally a “domestic only” operation.

Fuel is now averaging us$3.83 a gallon. Delta paid $2.25 a gallon in 4Q 2025.

Lest anyone forget, Porter was pounding the street in late 3Q / early 4Q 2025, eventually cutting a complicated debt deal to raise the $300m they needed, with that much lower fuel cost, to make it through to May 2026. There were some very precarious days.

One would have to be an optimist to think fuel will be dropping back to $2.25 anytime soon.

How much more government money will Porter, Transat and others need to make it through another winter?

10 years at WestJet, which for me is 3 international airlines and 22+ years ago. It might be time for some to quit living in the past.

BTW, after 22+ years, the guy who was “let go” still enjoys full flight benefits.

So, are you the guy that was snooping on AC? I seem to remember reading a lot of Dagger's stuff on that other forum. Was interesting but he said 22 years ago that Porter was on it's way out(if I remember correctly).

Why so many airlines?

[Realitychex]

Any insights into why Porter xero'd out all YHU Q400 ops on Weds 21 Oct for flights on Thurs 22 Oct?

That's 5 r/t's between YHU and YTZ and 2 r/t's between YHU and YHM cancelled.

The E2 operation at YHU continues so it's not an airport issue.

[WX_Radar]

Any insights into why Porter xero'd out all YHU Q400 ops on Weds 21 Oct for flights on Thurs 22 Oct?

That's 5 r/t's between YHU and YTZ and 2 r/t's between YHU and YHM cancelled.

The E2 operation at YHU continues so it's not an airport issue.

It is an airport issue. Construction… dash 8 wheelbase too wide.

[Realitychex]

Interesting.

The Q400 needs an extra 12’.

Surely the construction was known in advance to all involved?

I wonder why Porter didn’t advise the traveling public of the cancellation?

Then again, I am told cancelling those 1,036 seats today in and out of YHU to YTZ and YHM impacted fewer than 400 people’s travel plans.

[MD11]

Interesting.

The Q400 needs an extra 12’.

Surely the construction was known in advance to all involved?

I wonder why Porter didn’t advise the traveling public of the cancellation?

Then again, I am told cancelling those 1,036 seats today in and out of YHU to YTZ and YHM impacted fewer than 400 people’s travel plans.

Not that you should get the time of day from me, but rumour has it that YHU has been problematic to Porter’s requirements. Taxiway widening/adjustments were requested ahead of the airport opening but rejected or stalled by airport management to avoid further infrastructure investments and demands they deemed unnecessary.

Also, don’t act like AC or WJ don’t cancel multiple flights for their operational constraints either impacting thousands of people a day. Frequently you’ll see multiple consecutive rapidair AC flights cancelled in a row causing hours on end to a full day of delay.

[flyinhigh]

I seriously don't know why you guys keep feeding a washed up airline exec. Remember this is the guy who said Flair was done, this is the guy who ranted about the Transat negots, this is the guy who literally got caught stealing AC loads.

Quite literally everything he spews is full of errors, yet you feed him.

[Realitychex]

From what I've heard, YHU's infrastructure problems are the least of Porter's YHU issues.

Porter sold Macquarie and others on a YHU infrastructure investment that would pay off with another YTZ- Nieuport home run.

Mac pumped a ton of additional cash into the operation on the basis of this in early 4Q 2025, which is long since gone, thus Porter's current reliance of taxpayer cash, (LASR "loans"), to fund the operation.

The $150m in LASR cash provided in late June 2026 was burned through by late Sept; that's what happens when your daily fuel bill is $1.6m higher than budgeted for in late 2025 and jet fuel is north of us$4.50 a gallon.

As it turns out, after a full summer of ops not to mention and an abysmal October, YHU may not be the home run real estate transaction Porter was counting on.

If summer 2026, not to mention post Sept 10th is any indicator, any rational operator would pull out of YHU and wipe their hands of it until perhaps June 1 for some summer seasonal flights to AB and BC. That's about it.

Porter can't. They've sold investors on a big YHU pay day.

Yet any prospective YHU infrastructure buyer would quickly recognize in DD that there's no way YHU is sustainable for anyone with 16 r/t's a day. It's not even close. And without passenger flow through, there's no revenue to support anything close to the inflated prospective YHU sale number I'm sure Porter was bandying about this time last year.

It's a blood bath out there. The blinking will start soon, and with little warning.

[Ozinater]

This thread in a nutshell...

old-man-yells.jpeg (135.31 KiB) Viewed 451 times

[Speedbrakes]

I seriously don't know why you guys keep feeding a washed up airline exec. Remember this is the guy who said Flair was done, this is the guy who ranted about the Transat negots, this is the guy who literally got caught stealing AC loads.

Quite literally everything he spews is full of errors, yet you feed him.

I would love if the mods could do something about him. He clearly has an agenda.

[Realitychex]

It’s very simple, but I’ll explain it again.

As long as there are people willing to pump cash into these various airlines, they’ll continue to operate. That’s been the story for, in some cases, decades, be they private or public companies.

As of late, the only people prepared to pump cash into airlines are long suffering Canadian taxpayers, by way of LASR “loans” of $150m, (and $75m to Flair), doled out in June / July.

Said funds were designed to give these smaller airlines the advantage of having a net effective fuel price per liter basically equivalent to what they paid in 4Q 2025 for fuel purchased between June and the end of Oct 2026.

The problem is, the fuel price increased well beyond levels contemplated when the feds dreamt up this policy, resulting in the funds running out in the last third of Sept for Porter, and likely the same time for the other two as well.

Since then, Porter has been spending close to $1.6m a day more on fuel than they budgeted for in 2026, unless they had insider knowledge of geopolitical events that occurred in Feb 2026.

If these three urgently required cash to deal with fuel at us$3.75 a gallon during peak summer of 2026, it’s pretty obvious they’re going to need a whole lot more to deal with fuel costs at $4.87 a gallon today, not to mention being in the 4Q doldrums to boot, a period when they came very close to oblivion last year, with sub $3 fuel.

Let’s be clear. $4.75 fuel is horrible for everyone, but it’s hitting those who were already dancing on the precipice even harder.

Barring an immediate calamitous collapse of jet fuel prices below $3 a gallon, the survival of these three operations rests almost entirely on what the feds choose to do.

If the Feds decide to come up with another scheme to hand out a further $350m cash to each of Porter and Transat, with roughly half that amount to Flair, (cash that will never be repaid), they should all survive until the end of April.

If they don’t and the private sector collectively says “no mas”, (and they already have), well, it’s just math.

How the Feds would further justify such biased, flagrant manipulation of market forces boggles the mind.

Who’d invest in anything in Canada when the playing field is constantly being selectively manipulated by politicians?

Don’t shoot the messenger. This story is not unique to Canada. Similar scenarios are playing out elsewhere around the world.

As for what’s going on at YHU, every Porter gate agent, rampie, flight attendant and pilot working a YHU flight sees exactly what’s going on. They’re not blind.

There’s no way to sugar coat it. YHU loads are awful. Flying half empty or worse aircraft day after day burning us$4.75 fuel is not helping what is already a very precarious situation.

[rudder]

There’s no way to sugar coat it. YHU loads are awful. Flying half empty or worse aircraft day after day burning us$4.75 fuel is not helping what is already a very precarious situation.

Nobody living west of the city is going to take the 20/40 then a bridge to get to YHU (two bridges if you live off the island). Nobody north of the city is going to take two bridges (or one bridge and one tunnel) to YHU. Traffic in YUL is trapped by limited infrastructure (think 1960’s). That leaves a catchment area that is either the city core, east, or the south shore. That is less of a catchment area than is available for YHM.

Add in lack of connectivity (TS) and no US ops and you are really targeting a narrow segment of the broader air travelling population. Montreal is not Toronto. It does not have remotely the same urban population. And YHU is not colocated with the city core like YTZ. These are demographic and geographic realities.

The YHU option is a great development for some Montreal area air travellers. But the scope of operations must match the local demand. Not sure an ‘If you build it - they will come’ strategy will work. Porter may have to reevaluate destinations, frequency, and gauge in order to not turn YHU into a massive cash burning machine.

As for those that thought there was money to be made in airport operations or terminal asset divestiture, there may be challenges ahead.

p.s. consider offering a free shuttle either downtown or to the Longueuil metro station and that might help entice more city dwellers. Even the $10 luxury bus option that AC offers from YUL represents a significant effort to acknowledge and mitigate the hassle of getting to and from the YUL facility.