BE20 forced landing Prince George

[Daniel Cooper]

If fuel exhaustion caused this crash, the tanks would have been empty sitting there on the side of the road. TSB will have checked them by now. To their credit, they have recently been divulging key information within days of accidents. Certainly, I would expect them to have said the aircraft ran out of fuel by now. How did that happen? Yes, that is for down the road. But empty tanks, there is no reason for holding that back.

Was there a Mayday when the left quit? If there was, what did the pilot say his intentions were? Surely he couldn't have said, "Landing on a road" with fuel and the right engine doing just fine.

If it's now a manslaughter case would they still release everything to the public?

[cncpc]

Not something that I would comment on at this stage. Or possibly at any stage. Not saying your question is not fair enough, but I expect most fair minded people would want to hear what the TSB has found before going down that road.

[cncpc]

Here is the ADS-B track from adsbexchange.com:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=c0 ... rackLabels

Previous track for the day shown for comparison.



GEDV - Copy.png

Just took a few minutes to look at this ADSB track. Some things stand out. The GS seems to have dropped off a fair way back up north on the accident flight. It is down to 106 kts in the last few minutes, but it is generally lower for most of the returns in this screenshot. Where exactly did the left engine fail? I see considerably higher GS on the other flight that day for the maneuvering to land phase. The flight up had to be IFR, but the return seems to be much lower, and wandering.

Anybody got winds aloft at the time?

[propfeather]

Just took a few minutes to look at this ADSB track. Some things stand out. The GS seems to have dropped off a fair way back up north on the accident flight. It is down to 106 kts in the last few minutes, but it is generally lower for most of the returns in this screenshot. Where exactly did the left engine fail? I see considerably higher GS on the other flight that day for the maneuvering to land phase. The flight up had to be IFR, but the return seems to be much lower, and wandering.

Anybody got winds aloft at the time?

Looking at that data, it doesn't indicate just a simple engine failure.
A king air 200 at 12500lbs should be able to maintain 15000asl on one engine, single engine TAS at 15k should be ~190kts if I remember correctly. Down at 5000 - 195ktas. Best range glide is 135kias.
They fly really well on one engine, so I don't see why you'd choose to descend and slow down, there had to be something else going on. Maybe flaps stuck down?

Radiosonde data from that day at YXS showed winds as out of the west at 10-15mph from the surface to 20000.

[Dry Guy]

Maybe they were gliding deadstick.

[bobcaygeon]

If fuel exhaustion caused this crash, the tanks would have been empty sitting there on the side of the road. TSB will have checked them by now. To their credit, they have recently been divulging key information within days of accidents. Certainly, I would expect them to have said the aircraft ran out of fuel by now. How did that happen? Yes, that is for down the road. But empty tanks, there is no reason for holding that back.

Was there a Mayday when the left quit? If there was, what did the pilot say his intentions were? Surely he couldn't have said, "Landing on a road" with fuel and the right engine doing just fine.

TSB is brutally slow at releasing any info. A report last year took almost 3 years to release and there were no mysteries to solve. CVR/FDC/Pilots all intact. Cause was pretty obvious.

[cncpc]

Just got a call from a friend. The King Air was out of fuel. An analysis of fuel planning has showed that even if the planning was correct, they would have had three minutes of fuel left on landing at Prince George.

Following on from what Bob said above, I asked why TSB hasn't released this yet. Answer was "Because the two years isn't up".

[digits_]

An analysis of fuel planning has showed that even if the planning was correct, they would have had three minutes of fuel left on landing at Prince George.

How did this happen? Mathematical error on the form? Lots of diversions? Did they sign a flightplan that showed 3 minutes of fuel at destination?

[propfeather]

An analysis of fuel planning has showed that even if the planning was correct, they would have had three minutes of fuel left on landing at Prince George.

How did this happen? Mathematical error on the form? Lots of diversions? Did they sign a flightplan that showed 3 minutes of fuel at destination?

On an IFR flight too, wow. I don't like landing with less than an hour of fuel myself.

[cncpc]

An analysis of fuel planning has showed that even if the planning was correct, they would have had three minutes of fuel left on landing at Prince George.

How did this happen? Mathematical error on the form? Lots of diversions? Did they sign a flightplan that showed 3 minutes of fuel at destination?

Most likely the OFP and W/B stated lbs of fuel on startup in PG. That that number was insufficient would be evidenced by empty tanks at the roadside. It seems that number was true as stated on the forms. Going through the 2 takeoff fuel burns and the inbound/outbound, I guess it was determined that in a best case scenario, they would have had 3 minutes of fuel left on landing at PG. So something was miscalculated from the flight planning stage. Right numbers in the form for fuel, but wrong calculation for burn rate, or non standard power setting?

[SpyPilot]

You can't seriously be suggesting that an experienced crew messed up the fuel flow numbers? Low fuel lights would probably have been glaring well before Mackenzie.

[porcsord]

You can't seriously be suggesting that an experienced crew messed up the fuel flow numbers? Low fuel lights would probably have been glaring well before Mackenzie.

Low fuel lights in a King Air? There are low fuel pressure lights which are master warnings, but when those go on, you don't have much time before the engine flames out.

Here's a good read on those lights:

https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repo ... c0038.html

[SpyPilot]

No low fuel lights? No King Air time but the 441 had them and I only saw them illuminate once.

[nine sixteenths]

Capacitance probe fuel quantity indication system, doesn’t take much for that to be out of calibration

[pelmet]

From TSB...

C-GEDV, a Sekani Air Limited Beech 200 (King Air 200), departed Sturdee Airstrip, BC, under
instrument flight rules, to Prince George Airport (CYXS), BC.
During descent, the flight crew reported they were short on fuel on the right engine and,
approximately 2 minutes later, they declared a MAYDAY and were looking for a location to conduct
a forced landing. The aircraft touched down on Foothills Boulevard in Prince George, BC. The left
side of the aircraft collided with 3 oncoming vehicles and the right side collided with 1 same-
direction vehicle before it came to a stop. There were no injuries to the aircraft occupants. Of the
total of 6 vehicle occupants, 1 was fatally injured, 2 had minor injuries and 3 were uninjured. The
aircraft and all 4 motor vehicles were substantially damaged.

[Dronepiper]

From TSB...

C-GEDV, a Sekani Air Limited Beech 200 (King Air 200), departed Sturdee Airstrip, BC, under
instrument flight rules, to Prince George Airport (CYXS), BC.
During descent, the flight crew reported they were short on fuel on the right engine and,
approximately 2 minutes later, they declared a MAYDAY and were looking for a location to conduct
a forced landing. The aircraft touched down on Foothills Boulevard in Prince George, BC. The left
side of the aircraft collided with 3 oncoming vehicles and the right side collided with 1 same-
direction vehicle before it came to a stop. There were no injuries to the aircraft occupants. Of the
total of 6 vehicle occupants, 1 was fatally injured, 2 had minor injuries and 3 were uninjured. The
aircraft and all 4 motor vehicles were substantially damaged.

So I know this is preliminary, but I am pretty sure this is what most of expected unfortunately. The question becomes: why did they run out of fuel? Was it a fuel leak? Or did they seriously just @$&# up and run out of fuel?

If the investigation reveals it's the latter, then I hope BOTH pilot's face criminal charges. Sure, the Captain is PIC, but the FO shares just as much responsibility in making sure they don't kill anyone. If you also aren't checking fuel, then you don't deserve to sit in any seat.

Now some of you might think thats harsh, but let's be real... if someone dies because you ran out of fuel....that is considered "criminal negligence causing death" under the criminal code. If this was an automobile accident, that's exactly what would happen.

Yes, we as pilot's make mistakes all the time (I am the first to admit when I make a mistake), but there are just some mistakes that you are not allowed to make, otherwise this happens.....

Again, maybe I am jumping to conclusions, and this could turn out to be a fuel leak... but let's be honest with ourselves... this wouldn't be the first time a king air has run out of fuel. I think about the Kingair that glided into Gillam Manitoba in 2019 all the time...

[oldncold]

3k pic on type

rule 1/ no inflight refuel probes / military n spec ops exculded no world fuels in flight

rule 2/ first day as i was line captain 30 years ago was told if you ever land with less than 200lbs a side in a be20 / thats a very quick ticket to unemployment line for it shows very poor pdm before t/o/ took that very seriously no issue
/
The be 20 is known for fuel gage issue /wiring gets old/ shorts in fuel probes and its a really big job to really fix properly. ive printed off ai instructions to help my maintenance staff get to root of the inflight issues yur seeing. they may never have done a deep dive into really solving for their experience or operational time constraints push it on to mel list

other than fuel contamination refuel out of drums fuel of crap //in this case seems likely rule #2 wasn/t observed
n sadly for the pic it will more than likely result in criminal negligence causing death conviction and career ending

[Canoehead]

Remember Keystone PA31 crash in Winnipeg. June 2002.
A passenger later died from his injuries. I think the pilot was charged and then convicted of dangerous operation of an aircraft causing death and dangerous operation of an aircraft causing bodily harm. There may have been more.

This seems to be similar, except passenger vs driver fatality.

Horrible for all involved.

[porcsord]

The Keystone pilot was convicted on two charges, which were later appealed and overturned.

https://www.ahbl.ca/pilots-criminal-con ... verturned/

[Dry Guy]

The Keystone pilot was convicted on two charges, which were later appealed and overturned.

https://www.ahbl.ca/pilots-criminal-con ... verturned/

The court maintained convictions for dangerous operation of an aircraft causing death and dangerous operation of an aircraft causing bodily harm. He got a 2 year sentence of a daily curfew and 240 hours of community service. Transport Canada also issued a 45-day suspension of his pilot's licence. Subsequent civil lawsuits were settled outside of court for a confidential payout.

[propfeather]

I heard a rumour from a fairly reliable source that the woman who was killed wasn't hit by the plane. She had parked on the side of the road and was walking/running to the accident to help and was hit by a vehicle..

[cncpc]

I heard a rumour from a fairly reliable source that the woman who was killed wasn't hit by the plane. She had parked on the side of the road and was walking/running to the accident to help and was hit by a vehicle..

Yeah, i heard that too. Seemed to be taken as fact and not disputed at the time.