anti-depressants

Question · Post by **Question** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:06 pm

Hello,

I have a question about pilots and anti-depressants like effexor or the likes. I am a little nervous about approaching my MOT doctor about the subject, so here I am, spilling it to all of you. I know transport are very sticky about drugs (the legal variety as well), but are their any professional pilots out there on any type of anti-depressants out there, if yes, what kind? MOT approved, or you're keeping it under wraps? Just curious, because I have a "friend" who.........you know the rest. Thanks.

N2 · Post by N2 » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:19 pm

Is that med classified as a SSRI?

EVIAN · Post by **EVIAN** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:03 pm

You cannot fly while taking Effexor.

There are 3 anti-depressants on which you can fly: Prozac, Wellbutrin & Zoloft. Though I don't know much about these particular drugs I would suggest taking one of these. All the side effects seem to be very similar. In no way would I ever recommend "keeping it under wraps." There are obviously alternatives.

marktheone · Post by **marktheone** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:19 pm

Wellbutrin is another name for Zyban, which is the quit smoking drug. I took it and certainly never felt anything and I actually did quit smoking for a minute or two.

That's all I got.

air-heart · Post by **air-heart** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:15 pm

I didn't think you could fly on ANY anti-depressant. So if you told your CAME that you were on Prozac, that would be OK? No questions or ripping your medical from you? I didn't know that

Flybabe · Post by **Flybabe** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:25 pm

This is about all I could find:

SSRI's

The FAA at least has a list of prohibited medications. They *may* be similar.

I forgot to mention.... 5-HTP can help and it's herbal.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:31 pm

Anti-depressant drugs are not necessary.

Just eat right, don't drink, don't smoke, excercise and get laid frequently.

Wait a minute. Now I'm depressed.

-istp

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:11 am

EVIAN wrote:You cannot fly while taking Effexor.

There are 3 anti-depressants on which you can fly: Prozac, Wellbutrin & Zoloft. Though I don't know much about these particular drugs I would suggest taking one of these. All the side effects seem to be very similar. In no way would I ever recommend "keeping it under wraps." There are obviously alternatives.

Wowsers; I was under the impression that if you are undergoing ANY psychiatric/psychologic treatment regime your medical is invalid. Or at least that’s what I gleaned from the last big safety meeting from TC when their doctor type came out and chatted us up…
From what I recall they were working on a way to allow someone who is undergoing treatment to be able to undergo some fairly intensive examination by a TC doc and be allowed to operate as an FO ONLY. But this is not yet running…

From what I have gleamed from various people this is one of aviations dirty little secrets that the stereotypical aviator attitude perpetuates. One could perhaps draw a line between this and the alcoholism culture that we are all proud members of.

IE an airline pilot who may or may not have underlying issues to begin with will NOT seek treatment for anything because A) he will loose his job B) It would be considered a loss of face and C) he would be a Pansy man, and NO ONE likes a Pansy man…

NOW couple that with a broken marriage (that also is prevalent here, IE AIDS “Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome”), Shit operators (not all are, but there are defiantly some), all the stress of normal life; THEN tell the dude he can’t speak a peep of this to any one because of the above reasons…
Now I wont go out and say that its a safety thing to worry about, because I really don’t think from a safety point of view its much to worry about, 99.99E^-500000% of the commercial guys out there would never do anything intentional; and the whole Idea of a multi crew environment is to catch the mistakes of one; BUT I DO think that the industries relationship with depression could be making a lot of peoples life’s more shitty than need be…
However I really don’t think there is a solution; the public wouldn’t be too impressed if they knew pilots were popping happy pills; And good luck taking anyone other than Big Red or WJ to court over something like getting booted out on your rear.

MY not so expert advice; If this is a career pilot who is still in the student stage; get professional treatment with all guns blazing get the issue licked then get back into the flying game. If this is someone who is working then decide how bad the problem is, chances are she/he will NOT be able to operate as a crew member if they are undertaking full treatment. But if the problem is so bad that they need it, well it is their responsibility to ground themselves.
From what I understand if you are undertaking “alternative” treatment than TC doesn’t care; just as soon as you touch western medicine you are in trouble. So go find an acupuncturist etc…

But as said above almost all depression can be gotten a good handle on by serious exercise diet etc… join a martial arts club or something of the like, If this is someone who really is depressed trusting them to go on a 45 min jog every night may not work, something with a set schedule and more involving than a gym would be my suggestion….

Really hope who ever it is gets better!

Btw from my understanding TC Medicine will answer “theoretical” questions, So I would ask them, they aren’t out to get you they are there for OUR well being as well as the publics…

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:13 am

You need to discuss the issue with your MOT doctor. Your actual diagnosis, type of drug, and dosage will all factor into the decision about your fitness to fly. I have known two pilots who were taking medication for depression type illnesses; both bi-polar. One had his medical pulled and the other did not. The one who had his medical suspended was taking Prozac, a Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI). I don't know what the other guy takes, but it is also probably an SSRI class drug.

As much as the medication, the illness itself may impact your fitness to fly if it's serious enough. Depression often causes rapid mood swings, irrationality and impulsiveness, and these behaviours will often manifest when in stressful situations (ie; bad wx, emergencies).

CID · Post by **CID** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:23 am

Anti-depressants are used to treat a wide range of illnesses including clinical depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorder, post traumatic stress disorder and anxiety.

I'm having a real hard time believing tht ANYONE diagnosed with any of those illnesses and subsequently treated with drugs can retain their license.

As mentioned before, they may be alternatives like some phycological therapy or some lifestyle changes.

Brewguy · Post by **Brewguy** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:36 am

There are two seperate issues here:
1) Drugs which are either approved for use, or prohibited
2) Being diagnosed with clinical depression by a doctor

Don't know if they have changed their rules over the years, but 10 or so years ago I lost my medical (for my private licence) for about a year while being treatmed for depression. My understanding was that it wasn't the drug used, but rather the depression itself.

Some anti-depressent drugs (like many other drugs) are often prescribed by doctors for other reasons. So it is entirely possible for an anti-depressent drug to be approved for use by flight crews, for reasons other than depression.

My advice - eat lots of potatoes. They boost your seratonin levels, and may help. Also, just be aware that depression is a strange illness, and is really difficult to self-diagnose. Just because you're going through a bad time, or feel like crap - doesn't necessarily mean that you are suffering from clinical depression. You're defenitely in the realm of dealing with doctors here.

If changes in your diet, etc don't help - then perhaps consider seeing a doctor (other than your CAME) to see if you are in fact dealing with depression. However, be prepared for the fact that if you are, you will have to see your CAME, and it very well might effect your licence/medical.

Of course, it may not be all bad news. In my case, I wasn't flying commercially, so loosing my medical didn't effect my job. If you do fly commercially, I believe that temporarily loosing your medical while undergoing treatment for a diagnosed medical condition - would be grounds for a workers disability claim (in most jurisdictions). It's certainly worth doing more research.

p.s. If you think you might be suffering from depression - stay away from the booze. Going drinking with the guys may make you feel better for a few hours... but (medically speaking) makes the condition worse, not better.

CID · Post by **CID** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:24 am

My advice - eat lots of potatoes.

Then you'll be fat AND depressed!

N2 · Post by N2 » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:32 am

Best cure for depression is a to get as far away from an airport as you can!

happy_flyer · Post by **happy_flyer** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:44 pm

Effexor is classed as SSNRI - which basically covers both the SSRI and SNRI classes. Really at issue, regardless of whether you disclose it or not to TC, or whether it is possible to maintain your medical wjhen taking one of these drugs, is the "side effects". These are not too bad while you take them - it's when you forget to take a pill one day - you would NOT be safe at the controls of an airplane. Dizziness, sweats, "electric shocks" - very commmon within just a few hours of forgetting that one pill. Be very careful....and coming off them totally is a very long process...years in fact. It's a shame these drugs are given out so freely by the medical profession.

Question · Post by **Question** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:47 pm

Flybabe,

What is 5-HTP? Do you get it at the health food store?

Thanks for all the imput guys. My "friend" is actually in the best shape of his life. Eats disgustingly well, has a six pack and overall super healthy. He doesn't smoke, drink very much and has enough bedroom action. He just feels like he could be a bit more "alive". Thanks again.

Flybabe · Post by **Flybabe** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:19 pm

Yes, you can get 5-HTP at any health food store. Also St. John's Wort is supposed to help but I'm not convinced. I've tried the 5-HTP and am convinced it was helpful.

Takes a while to get into your system, figure a couple weeks

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:40 pm

*gives everyone a hug to cheer them up*

See you don't need pills...

Flybabe · Post by **Flybabe** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:46 pm

Yeah if only that worked sometimes lol

5-HTP Info

TorontoGuy · Post by **TorontoGuy** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:48 pm

Question wrote:Flybabe,

What is 5-HTP? Do you get it at the health food store?

Thanks for all the imput guys. My "friend" is actually in the best shape of his life. Eats disgustingly well, has a six pack and overall super healthy. He doesn't smoke, drink very much and has enough bedroom action. He just feels like he could be a bit more "alive". Thanks again.

A major question is "how long has this been going on?" Canadian winter beats the crap out of "feeling alive" in a lot of us. For me, this winter, with all the rain and low cloud has been especially bad.

So, make sure this isn't just a severe case of the winter blues. 'Cause that will cure itself.

stef · Post by **stef** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:01 pm

Tell your friend not to @#$! around with drugs unless he/she has a serious problem. Most people feel a little down at this time of year from lack of sunlight and being sick and tired of the cold.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:30 pm

Question wrote:He just feels like he could be a bit more "alive". Thanks again.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but maybe it's time for some kind of a reality check....

I can't imagine a more lame-assed excuse for wanting to take prescription, mind-messing drugs!
Why screw with the chemicals in your brain for nothing!?
Tell your friend to find some good books, or a hobby or something... Maybe get a dog and train it to do neat things...

Anti-depressants used as "happy-pills" for those not suffering from depression is just nuts.

SkyWolfe · Post by **SkyWolfe** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:01 pm

Well - I have known a few people who took anti depressants - and they hardly even worked. They mostly did needles screwy things - I feel they are a waste of money and time - as the people (about 5) that I have known have receieved no real benifit.

Myself - I have never taken one - but through my depressed periods I eat oranges... LOTS OF THEM. and that helps

EVIAN · Post by **EVIAN** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:45 pm

I find this subject somewhat interesting. I have been looking around for additional information. About a month ago I was told that certain anit-depressants could be mixed with flying and was actually given paperwork stating this. I found the quote below on TCs website "Handbook for Civil Aviation Examiners - policies." It doesn't seem as black and white as I thought.

"Ongoing depression is disqualifying condition. May be recertified after full recovery and cessation of treatment. Waiting period prior to recertification will be individually assessed. Report from attending physician or psychiatrist likely required.

Note: Applicants who have been treated for a depressive illness and who are on maintenance or prophylactic therapy with non-sedating selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) may be considered for medical certification on an individual basis after review by the CAM Aviation Medicine Review Board."

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:31 pm

Mitch Cronin wrote:Maybe get a dog and train it to do neat things...

I don't hear that word as often as I used to