Bushpilots, Dockhand Pay per the Labour Laws

[Beaver Guy]

Pay is by the hour per the labour laws and not by the month as they advertise for bush operations.

Overtime is paid after 40, 44 or 48 hours per the province you are working in at a rate of one and half times your pay.

This is the law, PERIOD!! any operation that tells you different is breaking the law.

Good summery of the hours, overtime. meal and other items:
http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/lp/spila/clli ... urs(e).pdf ( make sure to include the "(e).pdf" when you go to this site)

You can check for specific laws for the province you are working in.
http://bsa.cbsc.org/gol/bsa/site.nsf/en/su04928.html

Maximum Deductions Permitted for Board and lodging
http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.asp? ... tml&hs=lzl


I have seen dockhands paid $1,500 per month and worked over sixty hours per week. They worked over 260+ hours one month or average of $5.76 per hour.
Based on $1,500/month that is $9.38/hour. As $1,500 is for 160 hours and they worked 260 hours, 100 hours of overtime (100 hours overtime * 1.5 = 150 hours * $9.38= $1407 extra ).
$1500 + 1409 = $2,907.00
They should have been paid for that month $2.907.00

I know of a few guys at one location who kept a detailed track of their work hours (ie; start, finish, & days off) They submitted them to the labour board in their province at the end of the season and they paid what they were owned. That added up to a few thousand dollars for what they should have been paid to begin with.

I have seen pilots worked that many hours and worked just as hard as that but not get paid fairly.

It is time to be paid fairly.

Pass this around to all bush pilots, dockhands, so we all will know what the law is.

[Windatmyback]

Yeah, and after submitting it to the gov. at the end of the summer you'll get what you're owed (maybe...) but don't expect to be invited back next summer for that flying position. It's gotta make you think what you're doing there in the first place. Is it to fly or get a fair wage for a days work. Obviously it'd be nice to have both but for the most part the industry just doesn't work that way when you're starting out (yes, it's unfair). I agree with you on the pay but I don't know if it's sound advice to follow for all you dock/ramp hands that are looking to get in an airplane. My 2 cents.

WAMB

[Rudder Bug]

Good intervention Beaver Guy!

It is about time someone talks. I have seen it too much with good dock hands, with CPL, competent in flying all the machines.

The best ones I knew were making 3 bucks an hour if we really count it. Instead of going to Small Claims, he's gonna fly a Beaver for the same guy next summer and he'll be well paid. This guy is exceptionally devoted, talented and bright, so this is a different case.

Otherwise, I don't see why a person who paid and studied to become a professional pilot would work more for less than the Wal Mart employee. Wal Mart does not require that level of qualification and commitment and pays minimum wage, which is twice as much as our dock hands.

I recall I had fabulous dock hands who made my days, on the dock and in the air. You guys deserved so much more than what you got. At least I could give you some left seat time in return.

I only hope the Work Feds will ever take a spin to the small operators and see the mess we're in!

There is a big clean-up in order, no doubt.

Take care guys, don't take seriously any offer not talking money.

[AntiNakedMan]

Ever since I first started in aviation (not too long) I've been told 'there is no such thing as overtime in the flying business' and I believe that. You talk to some of the guys who have flown for 20-30-40+ years and they tell you that they have never worked a day in their life. I like to think we're pilots because we love flying, and it's something we devote our lives to. Unfortunately, on the commercial side of things we can end up devoting other people's lives to it as well, from family members to passengers.

I'm not saying you shouldn't demand a fair wage, but there is always someone poorer than you who wants that job, because they can stretch that dollar to live on. If you got into flying to get rich, then I think you're doing it for the wrong reasons, and you don't have your head in the game. If you want to make a small fortune in aviation, start with a large one.

Face it, a dockhand is a dockhand. They work hard and some operators may treat them poorly, but what low level position isn't like that? At least you're getting some sun and touching someone's expensive airplane once and a while.

[Rudder Bug]

Totally agree with you man. You have to forge it, make it, be the best or you lose. Don't count your hours, just do it.

If you don't like the old black Beaver's dash, take it out to your room, sand it and repaint it in light gray. Put some new roastbeef chord around the old yoke. Try to make a brand new Beaver in your spare times if you get some when the plane is sitting. Paint the switches, correct the typos on the labels, do something the pilots will love. They will speak for you. This can become your plane. Put your signature in the universe.

It can be rewarding much more than your minimum wage while you are learning the bush business.

I've had a couple dock hands and ground crews who are now flying planes I will never fly. They were awesome people.

[Rudder Bug]

Hi again Naked Man,

You talk to some of the guys who have flown for 20-30-40+ years and they tell you that they have never worked a day in their life

I wish we would be sincere when we say that. In my case, loading the plane and doing the trip 4 times is no more fun.

Flying survey lines in a twin for 5 hours and doing it again after refuel is no more fun. I do it for money. But what a great job, compared to other ones. I have a fun team and good times, while our work is no more fun.

In either cases, we work our butts like horses, but who doesn't? Maybe we're having more fun than those not flying?

[Brewguy]

You can check for specific laws for the province you are working in.
http://bsa.cbsc.org/gol/bsa/site.nsf/en/su04928.html

They submitted them to the labour board in their province at the end of the season and they paid what they were owned. That added up to a few thousand dollars for what they should have been paid to begin with.

I have a business doing regulatory compliance consulting for a number of industries, and I have to agree 100% that knowing the laws is the best way of protecting yourself.

Beaver Guy: just curious about the guys you know who submitted their info to the provincial labour board... were they working as pilots or in "other" jobs? My reason for asking is that (at least in Ontario) the Ministry of Labour usually won't touch aviation with the proverbial 10 foot pole.

Technically speaking, aviation is amongst the industries that falls under the Canada Labour Code. If they worked in a ground support job, I could see the province getting involved. However if they were pilots, I'd think it would be highly unusual for the province to step in - as they usually pass the buck to the federal government.

[Intentional Left Bank]

If you don't like the old black Beaver's dash, take it out to your room, sand it and repaint it in light gray. Put some new roastbeef chord around the old yoke. Try to make a brand new Beaver in your spare times if you get some when the plane is sitting. Paint the switches, correct the typos on the labels, do something the pilots will love. They will speak for you. This can become your plane. Put your signature in the universe.

I've done that on every airplane I've flown. I do it for myself, because sitting there on a long leg, staring at the same paint chips gets old in a hurry. Just don't paint the top of the dash grey, because you get a terrible glare on the windscreen. Flat black works good up there. I used to like flat grey on the rest of the panel, but it's too hard to get the coffee stains off. Shiny is easier to clean.

___________
I started on the dock for $1500/month almost a decade ago. It worked out to about $2.50/hr. I learned a lot, wouldn't have done it for another season though. They jacked it up to $1800/month after three months and I got about 120 hrs of flying in the last half of the season. Yeah I was underpaid. But not the following year. And I'm overpaid now.

I'm a firm believer in the dockhand system, but only under the provisio that the dockhand has a reasonable chance of advancing his career within the company in short order. If you're merely using it for cheap labour-- rather than for grooming future line pilots (and weeding out the truly useless)--then I'm dead set against it.

[phillyfan]

This is just a tip for those who are getting into the float racket. The hours are long and the pay is by the month. If your intention is to find a job working 9 to 5 this is not the place to find it.
P.S. The worst thing you can do is go to the labour board. You will be "blackballed for life". Hell people in this gig are "blackballed" for making legitimate workers comp claims. Not saying it's right, but in an industry where some will work for nothing it was bound to end up this way.
Hell I've been on the float side for 13 years and I still get dragged out of my house at 10pm to unload the boss's truck or get told "your off tommorow if the weather is bad, if not your working."
Still the worst is working for some of the Ma and Pa camp operations where they tell you lights out and no booze after 9pm. Some even have driveway monitors so they will be alerted when you arrive back at the base when you go visit some buddies down the road.

[West Coast Swell]

I knew it!

I quit ... someone owes me money for overtime.

[Jeffbrownridge]

Aviation is under Federal jurisdiction therefore we do not fall under provincial labour laws.

[North Shore]

Still the worst is working for some of the Ma and Pa camp operations where they tell you lights out and no booze after 9pm. Some even have driveway monitors so they will be alerted when you arrive back at the base when you go visit some buddies down the road.

You've worked for people like this?? Do they make you go to church on Sundays, too?

Still, from their point of view, if they have a first flight at 0600, then requiring you to be in bed at 2100 gives them an odds-on chance of having a non-fatigued, non-hungover pilot at that time... Still, you'd hope that your professionalism would take care of that.

[phillyfan]

Yep and they are hiring right now. Not to worry. they will give the guys the lowdown during the pre season meeting. My favorite was if my wife visited she was limited to 24 hrs and was expected to clean the washrooms etc. to "pay her way"

[Rowdy]

Yep and they are hiring right now. Not to worry. they will give the guys the lowdown during the pre season meeting. My favorite was if my wife visited she was limited to 24 hrs and was expected to clean the washrooms etc. to "pay her way"

Yikes! PM me with who they are so I can avoid em.