WestJet and OTP

[Twizzler]

This post is not intended to be a bashing of any kind, but what is the deal with WestJet and their On Time Performance. Maybe someone who works for them or has had a similar (or opposite)experience can enlighten me.

I have flown WJ 20+ times in the last 2 years, twice in the last few days. Out of all of theses flights, only 3 have departed on time. Some were only 5-10 minutes late which is not a big deal, but most were of the 20+ minute delay variety. The last 2 were 1:10 and :35 late.

I have flown AC many more times than WJ, and there doesn't seem to be the same problem. More often than not AC are bang on sked. My company is much smaller than WJ, with a very high a/c utilization, and even we are on time at least 75% of the time.

Am I the only one with this bad luck, or does WJ not care about OTP (opposite to what their adverts say). My colleagues all complain about the same thing. WTF WestJetters??

[Zapp Brannigan]

Where did you fly out of the last few days? I know the wx in YYC has been junk so delays for deice, traffic is possible.

[Busted]

Part of the difference may be that WJ only gives themselves around 20-30 min to turn the plane around, while AC gives themselves an hour or more on most skeds.
So once WJ is behind sked it is almost impossible to make up any time.

I maybe wrong but I bet that that is part of the diff.

[Twizzler]

I flew between YYZ and YUL the last few days, but those were the most recent flights.

Yesterday am out of YUL. Beautiful day, cold, but sunny. Same with YYZ. The flight departing prior to mine was also late.

So if 20 min turns are to tight, then why not give more time for the turns. The reality is 20 minutes is enough time only on a good day. Or does WJ not put a priority on OTP? If WJ wants to attract and keep business travellers, I would think that OTP would a priority IMHO.

[D5GRVTY]

I had a bad experience with West Jet a short while ago. It was the beginning of Jan and I was heading out west for an interview for a company which I really wanted to get hired with. I planned an early morning flight that would have me in Vancouver 2hrs before the interview. I show up to the airport in the morning and find out that the mechanics found some problems overnight and the flight had been cancelled. The soonest they could get me out was 5hrs later.

Didn’t think it would make a great impression to be 5hrs late for an interview so I jumped over to the Air Canada counter and found a flight right away and made it to the interview on time.

I found out later that West Jet is not running with any spares so that if a plane does go mechanical it throws a big wrench into their plans.

To West Jet's credit they did give me a full refund and gave me a $70 credit for the next time I fly with them. I know it costs lots of money to keep an a/c waiting just in case but to be 5hrs late would not sit well with any business travelers or pilots heading to important interviews


P.S. I got the job!

[737 Mech]

Well for a while there WestJet was preaching OTP and how good theirs was so I think it is important to them but like others have posted winter OPS is hard on OTP not just deicing but just all around ground movement is slower in the winter eg. heater carts, lav service panels freezing up, bridges getting stuck, APU's not starting....etc the list goes on and on and all these little snags add up over the run of a day and kill OTP. 20min turns are tight in the winter but I guess it is possible.
Just for an example I had a cargo door handle that would not pull out of its recepticle not because it is broken but because it just came from down south and was raining there, took me 20 mins with heater cart to get it to open so that translates to 20min delay on the bags for both on and off loading. summer time you will see OTP increase for every airline because aircraft don't respond well to the cold....no matter what the manufactures say.

[The People's Pilot]

twizzler,

WJ's OTP is based on when the doors of the a/c are closed - which is listed as controllable delay otp (this accounts for boarding delays, etc)...the other is uncontrollable. that's how it's measured. however, there are additional measurements for departure time etc, ie. D15 (flights leaving within 15 mins of departure time)...if i'm not mistaken there is also a measurement for D05 as well as arrivals A05, A15.

i also believe all the majors in north america go by the above citeria when listing their OTP stats...there is a airline otp comparison list that comes out every so often, and it would be pretty messed up if there was not a defined standard.

having said that, i'll put it back to you...you said some flights were 10 mins late? doors being closed 10mins late or actual wheels up?

you also mentioned that your airline has 75% otp...is that Controllable (D0)?

[CGZMT]

and if you are even going close to Toronto expect delays with GG losing the contract. I know when a flight comes in up here we will try our best to get it out closer to sked but sometimes nothing can help it, especially with GG screwing up the pit loads

[Longtimer]

According to their web site, they have good ot performance

WestJet's On-Time Performance (as of February 28, 2006)
Rolling 90-day average Rolling 30-day average
Number of flights in the period 22322 7035
Percentage of on-time arrivals 70.4% 75.1%

On-time is defined as an arrival within 15 minutes of scheduled arrival at gate. This report is published with a two-month delay. Canadian carriers are not required to report on-time performance statistics.

[stef]

We have 99% on time performance. Maybe higher but today were 20mins late from waiting for a couple WestJet connectors. I wonder if moving ops from Hamilton to Pearson has changed circumstances on them. Lord knows they're trying their best.

[WJflyer]

We have 99% on time performance. Maybe higher but today were 20mins late from waiting for a couple WestJet connectors. I wonder if moving ops from Hamilton to Pearson has changed circumstances on them. Lord knows they're trying their best.

See the thread on Toronto ground handlers in the Westjet forum for more details. In short, the Toronto handlers suck, and Westjet wants them gone.

[ramp_rat]

See the thread on Toronto ground handlers in the Westjet forum for more details. In short, the Toronto handlers suck, and Westjet wants them gone.

You know WJflyer, I have nothing against WJ, but if you are one of those guys doing half hour turns for WJ, swinging bags left and right just to turn it in half hour, getting paid nine bucks an hour, would you be glad to be doing other flights, not busting yourelf that hard?

[WJflyer]

See the thread on Toronto ground handlers in the Westjet forum for more details. In short, the Toronto handlers suck, and Westjet wants them gone.

You know WJflyer, I have nothing against WJ, but if you are one of those guys doing half hour turns for WJ, swinging bags left and right just to turn it in half hour, getting paid nine bucks an hour, would you be glad to be doing other flights, not busting yourelf that hard?

No, but keeping a flight in the gate for almost an hour past the time it should have departed due to 'baggage issues' on my most recent flight out of Toronto isn't exactly stellar service.

[J.P.WISER]

Did you have one of those NDP tags on your bag, Ontario doesnt like the NDP. Just trying to help.

[ramp_rat]

People, there are some points that you are all missing!! ***Slugging bags for a living is very cheap, like $9.50 an hour to start at GG. Slugging bags for Westjet for half hour turn is a nightmare, done it for WFS. It aint good for your back and knees but slugging bags for some other airlines, I'd say $9.50 an hour aint that bad. You take your time, plus you get some bonus minutes to check out Tim Hortons, sit around and check out the passengers! Not so bad!! But slugging bags, for Air Canada, much better, you get paid more (the older guys not the part time new ones) plus you are in a very tough union. I am not saying I like unions or I hate Westjet but for the guy who thinks Swissport will kick ass, give it a month, when your back start hurting, you would be like the guys from GG and even WFS. I bust my ass slugging bags for WJ, even push the plane on the horshoe of terminal 3 like Michael Andretti. Those WJ pilots love that, just be careful!! They even gave us incentives of having free tickets if you have the best crew in a month, good luck!! ***Another point that I'd like to point out is that ground handling companies are always short of guys. Not a lot of guys wants to work for $9.50 an hour, on a -20 day plus windchill outside so most of these guys are full time on other companies and part time on another. So you know, the same guys slugging bags at GG, will be the same guys slugging bags, for Swissport. The same attitude, the same guys, the same shiitty pay. ***My last point is, most of ground handler workers are useless, unreliable, and some new ones have never seen planes b4!!! I've seen some of them getting blown by a WJ737 trying to chalk the tires when engines are running. Some even marshall planes to the bridge. Some we call them pylons, dog f*ckers! The solution is to train the good ones, pay them good and they'll take care of you. The idea of todays ground handling is numbers. Hire 10 useless ones, and pay them dirt cheap rather than hiring 5 good ones and pay them good. Neways, i'm glad i'm out!! .....so good luck to all your bags, and remember to carry over any fragile things!!

[Twizzler]

Sorry I did not intend to make this a WJ vs GG fight. There are always going to be ground handling issues, at any airline.

I also understand things like controllable vice uncontrollable delays, door closing times, etc....

I also know how times sometimes get passed along (ie. giving a sked time even though you are 10 mins late).

This has been a reflection of my experience travelling on WJ over the last couple of years (summer included). And I don't care if 10 mins late is still considered "on time". As a regular business traveller, being consistently 10 minutes late is still being consistently late. If you have to choose between an airline that is occasionally late vs one who is almost always late, who are you going to fly with.

I suppose my point with this whole thing is, what (if anything) is WJ doing to improve OTP? Are they happy with trying to make 20 min turns when you all know that it is virtually impossible (ie. YYZ)? Give me a reason to go to my company and say "I don't mind flying with WJ, at least they are trying to improve".

[ramp_rat]

No, but keeping a flight in the gate for almost an hour past the time it should have departed due to 'baggage issues' on my most recent flight out of Toronto isn't exactly stellar service.

There could be many things when they say baggage issues. Passengers dont get the real answer. Just to inform you that if a passenger is not inside the plane, but that passenger's bags are loaded, the ground handlers have to pull the bags out of the plane, look for those bags, and the plane won't leave until they find it!! And sometimes, there are just too many bags, and not enough space!!!

[ramp_rat]

I suppose my point with this whole thing is, what (if anything) is WJ doing to improve OTP? Are they happy with trying to make 20 min turns when you all know that it is virtually impossible (ie. YYZ)? Give me a reason to go to my company and say "I don't mind flying with WJ, at least they are trying to improve".

Hey Twizzler, I dont work for WJ or GG or any ground handling company. I just want people to understand how it is 'cuz i've been there.

[Twizzler]

ramp rat,

All airlines have their issues, and I personally don't care (no disrespect, because I have been there too) if ground handling is the main reason or not. I just want to know if WJ really works hard (and what are they doing)to better their OTP, because I have not seen it.

I know that AC and Jazz have some great incentives, for their employees, to improve and maintain a strong OTP. At my airline, there are certain places that we know cannot do a quick turn, and that is scheduled into the system.

[WJflyer]

No, but keeping a flight in the gate for almost an hour past the time it should have departed due to 'baggage issues' on my most recent flight out of Toronto isn't exactly stellar service.

There could be many things when they say baggage issues. Passengers dont get the real answer. Just to inform you that if a passenger is not inside the plane, but that passenger's bags are loaded, the ground handlers have to pull the bags out of the plane, look for those bags, and the plane won't leave until they find it!! And sometimes, there are just too many bags, and not enough space!!!

I was watching them. They were laughing and joking right beside the airplane, while baggage was sitting on the trailer to be loaded. An off-duty Westjet flight attendant that was heading home that was sitting next to me even commented how bad it was.

Edit: I may also add that the baggage handlers were also goofing off beside the airplane... looked like they had too much time on their hands.

[Chaffey]

its tru that the weaher has been bad lately, but you cant change that. The answer is on westjets website about OTP. It says they are ONE of the best airlines for OTP.. not the best. However, for all the workers that work at westjet, OTP for arriving to work, and the gate is important to all. we try hard, but sometimes other destinations that westjet goes to, makes it difficult to turn a plane on time.

but its all in the website.

From an Owner

[W5]

http://c3dsp.westjet.com/guest/about/ot ... -849065110

[Longtimer]

US airlines' ontime performance, baggage handling falter in 2005
Monday February 6, 2006
The US Dept. of Transportation said in its "Air Travel Consumer Report" that domestic airline operational performance as measured by delays, mishandled baggage and customer complaints worsened in 2005.The 20 reporting US carriers posted an ontime arrival rate of 77.4% last year, down from 78.1% in 2004. Reports of mishandled baggage rose to 6.04 per 1,000 passengers compared to 4.91 in the previous year. Consumer complaints rose 17.2% to 8,735.

For the month of December, ontime performance dipped to 71% from 71.6% in the year-ago month and 80% in November. As usual, Hawaiian Airlines led the way with a sunny 94.2% ontime arrival rate. Now-defunct Independence Air finished second with 78.7%, just above America West's 78.5%. JetBlue Airways was ontime only 63.7% of the time and Atlantic Southeast Airlines just a bit better at 65.4%. ASA's Flight 4148 from Dallas/Ft. Worth to Salt Lake City was late 100% of the time.

Completion factor improved, however, as carriers canceled just 1.9% of their scheduled domestic flights in December versus the year-ago month's 2.8%. Hawaiian cancelled 0.2% of its flights and Frontier Airlines and JetBlue had the next-best performances at 0.3%. American Eagle Airlines was the worst, canceling 3.9% of its flights. SkyWest Airlines was next to last at 3.3%.

The mishandled baggage rate of 7.73 reports per 1,000 passengers was an improvement over the year-ago months 9.11 but a drop-off from Novembers 5.00.