ppl candidate - gliding lessons?
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ppl candidate - gliding lessons?
Hi Guys/Gals, read all kinds of great advice from Doc, Cat, and all others, and now have my own question. Just startin ppl training and noticed the value some have put on the experience of gliding. Want to know if I am better off getting some gliding in first, or getting time in when I can during the ppl training? I am getting a new instructor ( I'm only 4 hrs in) and haven't talked to him yet. I'd like to get get goin on ppl while I'm makin hay$ so March/April is big. Any advice is appreciated.
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mellow_pilot
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Blue Side Down
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Getting time in a glider may not give any edge in your skill at this stage- learning how to fly an airplane in general is the goal at present- switching between airplane and glider may do nothing more than confuse things.
I started gliding after about 150 hours of power flying- the transition was straightforward and yes, it does polish your forced landing skills. In hindsight though, getting into it any earlier would not have helped the power side of things much- it's more of an efficient way of fine tuning aspects of your flying.
If you;re intersted in it as a hobby- it's a ton of fun, and a great way to meet a variety of pilots who are in the community.
I started gliding after about 150 hours of power flying- the transition was straightforward and yes, it does polish your forced landing skills. In hindsight though, getting into it any earlier would not have helped the power side of things much- it's more of an efficient way of fine tuning aspects of your flying.
If you;re intersted in it as a hobby- it's a ton of fun, and a great way to meet a variety of pilots who are in the community.
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AntiNakedMan
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I glide and fly commercially. I got my gliding license prior to my PPL, and have about 20hrs in gliders.
I would say don't bother with the gliding, just do your PPL. There are definately some different mindsets when dealing with how you learn to glide and how you learn to fly. Plus, Gliding is more of a 'hobby' (although I do get paid to do it), wheras flying can become more of a career.
It really won't give you a step up when you're just beginning, because gliding is no easier (to be proficent at) then is flying, it will only give you a very little amount of extra stick and rudder experience.
PM if you have any questions about my ramble
Anti
I would say don't bother with the gliding, just do your PPL. There are definately some different mindsets when dealing with how you learn to glide and how you learn to fly. Plus, Gliding is more of a 'hobby' (although I do get paid to do it), wheras flying can become more of a career.
It really won't give you a step up when you're just beginning, because gliding is no easier (to be proficent at) then is flying, it will only give you a very little amount of extra stick and rudder experience.
PM if you have any questions about my ramble
Anti
"It's not the size of the hammer, it's how you nail" - Kanga
I was one of the many that got their Glider Liscence before PPL thru the Air Cadet Program, to me gliding was a hell a lot of fun, more fun than flying, it does take more skill...and you really have to be more consious about where you are in relationship of the airport etc, u really have to hold airspeeds bang on best glide ratio or u just might not make it back. I wouldn't bother with Gliding time unless u are gonna do the ENTIRE liscene first, its just gonna screw u up. On the other hand if u are 16 and can't get PPL yet why not? if u have the money that is. Being a Glider Pilot helped during my PPL, i eased thru the course, in terms of height judgement etc, when ur a glider pilot U just know whether or not ur gonna make it, too high, too low etc. Flying is pretty much brainless haha...
I agree with the other guys that doing a mixed training program between gliding and airplane flying probably will be confusing.
I do think that gliding is highly worth-while; it's the most challenging flying I've done. Gliding fine tunes your flying skills and also forces you to pay attention to the environment that you're flying in. The trouble is, you need to do a few hours of gliding before these lessons start kicking in.
I've worked for both commercial gliding operations and commercial airplane operations. It seems to me that any monkey can follow a propeller around the sky, while gliding requires a little more thinking if you plan to keep airborne and actually go anywhere.
I know a lot of people look down on gliding as inferior, or "just for fun", but having worked as a "commercial glider pilot" for a full time job, when the customer is paying as much as $345 per hour for some serious cross country glider flying, the pressure is on and your skills get put to the test. It's not always all fun and games.
I do think that gliding is highly worth-while; it's the most challenging flying I've done. Gliding fine tunes your flying skills and also forces you to pay attention to the environment that you're flying in. The trouble is, you need to do a few hours of gliding before these lessons start kicking in.
I've worked for both commercial gliding operations and commercial airplane operations. It seems to me that any monkey can follow a propeller around the sky, while gliding requires a little more thinking if you plan to keep airborne and actually go anywhere.
I know a lot of people look down on gliding as inferior, or "just for fun", but having worked as a "commercial glider pilot" for a full time job, when the customer is paying as much as $345 per hour for some serious cross country glider flying, the pressure is on and your skills get put to the test. It's not always all fun and games.
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rotateandfly
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I pretty much agree to what has been said already. Go for your PPL first and then look into gliding as soon as youre an established pilot.
I got my PPL and currently fly gliders, it really did help me be more sensitive on the controls and plan my flying maneuvers ahead of time. Plus, i don´t stir the pot as much anymore. However you should consider the region you`re living in and the opportunities local gliding clubs will give you. i.e. if there`s a lot of thermal activity and if they have good gliders.
I got my PPL and currently fly gliders, it really did help me be more sensitive on the controls and plan my flying maneuvers ahead of time. Plus, i don´t stir the pot as much anymore. However you should consider the region you`re living in and the opportunities local gliding clubs will give you. i.e. if there`s a lot of thermal activity and if they have good gliders.
You`ve got to be kidding me, 345$ for one hour of gliding?? And how do u fly some serious x-country in a single hour??DHQ said:$345 per hour for some serious cross country glider flying,
althought I have not been gliding for a while, I really enjoy it, like said earlier u have to plan ahead, something as simple as turning left or right, its fun! I have a couple fun gliding experiences where i was trying to build time in the air, wasn't that bad of a day, but usually flights were 17mins long...tried to squeeze in a couple more, and things turn bad really quickly...ended up making it back to the field..but with a horrible looking circuit, sometimes people don't make it, and I've seen it happen....nothing fatal tho..funfunfun stuff...you should really try it after your PPL....
Nono.. it usually takes at least 3 hours if you want to go anywhere fun. The longer the flight, the cheaper per hour it becomes. It's not uncommon to get back and customer pays $1000+ for one flight of that type. There are of course different packages and courses you can go on, and this one above is the most expensive. It's a shocking price to those who have flown only in clubs, but people do pay it to experience some truley amazing gliding.rotateandfly wrote:You`ve got to be kidding me, 345$ for one hour of gliding?? And how do u fly some serious x-country in a single hour??
Not to muddy the water too much, but I'm of a different opinion than many here.
Like others, I started gliding at 16 when in cadets - and have done ever since. I currently have around 300 hours in gliders. I have known many licenced glider pilots that went on to do a PPL - and got it at or near the minimum hours. So if you happen to have been reading some of the other threads recently where people are saying that it often takes (a ridiculous average of) 70 hours these days do do a ppl.....? Well, that may be some additional food for thought for you. Of course, its your choice.
Personally, if I were you - I'd join a gliding club (assuming there is one not too far from you) at the beginning of the season. Forget power flying for the summer and get a glider licence. When the weather turns in the fall - switch over to power flying and polish off your PPL over the winter.
But hey, that's just my opinion. Either way, have fun and good luck!
Like others, I started gliding at 16 when in cadets - and have done ever since. I currently have around 300 hours in gliders. I have known many licenced glider pilots that went on to do a PPL - and got it at or near the minimum hours. So if you happen to have been reading some of the other threads recently where people are saying that it often takes (a ridiculous average of) 70 hours these days do do a ppl.....? Well, that may be some additional food for thought for you. Of course, its your choice.
Personally, if I were you - I'd join a gliding club (assuming there is one not too far from you) at the beginning of the season. Forget power flying for the summer and get a glider licence. When the weather turns in the fall - switch over to power flying and polish off your PPL over the winter.
But hey, that's just my opinion. Either way, have fun and good luck!
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Cat Driver
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AntiNakedMan
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Like Neil says, having a glider licence prior to your PPL can be an asset. I'm certain he failed to mention that the people he knows who did their glider license and then their PPL in near minimum times did both through the Air Cadet program, where you train in a structured environment for 7 weeks. See other threads with posts of mine, advocating this as the best way to do a license - in one condensed block of time.
However, if you're only going to do a little bit of glider flying whilst completing your PPL I would honestly say don't bother. I know my glider flying has done me quite a bit of good in regards to my powered flying, but gliding is not a skill you just 'pick up'. And getting time/experience in a glider is a challenging thing with only 6 min flights (winch) or 17 min flights (tow).
The only way gliding would truly be beneficial is if you did a whole licence complete with ground school etc etc prior to your PPL. Otherwise, focus on your PPL and what your instructor is teaching you, try to get it done in as condensed a time period as possible, and if you still have the desire, go gliding.
Anti
However, if you're only going to do a little bit of glider flying whilst completing your PPL I would honestly say don't bother. I know my glider flying has done me quite a bit of good in regards to my powered flying, but gliding is not a skill you just 'pick up'. And getting time/experience in a glider is a challenging thing with only 6 min flights (winch) or 17 min flights (tow).
The only way gliding would truly be beneficial is if you did a whole licence complete with ground school etc etc prior to your PPL. Otherwise, focus on your PPL and what your instructor is teaching you, try to get it done in as condensed a time period as possible, and if you still have the desire, go gliding.
Anti
"It's not the size of the hammer, it's how you nail" - Kanga
I agree with Naked, its no good unless u do the entire liscence, which might not be worth it if your not in the Cadets. And about Glider Pilots doing a PPL in Min Hours, yes that happens a lot, but it also happens a lot of people without prior experience...I completed my PPL with 47 hours...we were only allowed 48hours...but thats because I flew 6 days /week for 7 weeks....
I also got a glider licence before my PPL. It helps a bit, but not enough to justify spending money to do it. If you want to improve your chances of doing your PPL quickly and well, concentrate on choosing the right instructor. Don't let a school or CFI assign an instructor to you. Interview a number of instructors and select the one you feel you will communicate best with balanced against their experience.
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rotateandfly
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Another advantage of getting a glider pilot licence is that if you pursue a career in aviation you can save a few bucks by crediting a maximum of 50 hours gliding toward your commercial.
Flying those 50 hours on a single would cost you at least 6000 dollars whereas gliding may only cost half of in my case, i paid about 1000 for my 50 hours of gliding.
Flying those 50 hours on a single would cost you at least 6000 dollars whereas gliding may only cost half of in my case, i paid about 1000 for my 50 hours of gliding.
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Blue Side Down
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Now that there is a split with opinions promoting both paths considered here- another insight might be helpful.
If you begin gliding lessons now, then you will have to make a decision to commit to the license- otherwise it will be a waste of time.
At 4 hours into flight training, you are leaning like crazy every flight how to keep up to the airplane, and it takes 100% of your concentration; at this point, the skills you need to learn will be common between glider and power- how to get off the ground, keep things under control, and get back without breaking anything important. So why is there a benefit to one or the other? Hopefully what follows might help a little:
(This is a pro-power biased writeup, but hopefully it holds a bit of logic):
In power, first, you do not have to worry about control during the tow (your workload is less)- and any glider pilot here will agree- the tow is not an easy task to learn initially. So right off the bat, a glider flight will begin with moderate stress.
Secondly, in power, you have the option of going 'back up'... in gliding, you can go whatever vertical direction you want, so long as it's down. Your initial gliding flights will be 10 to 15 minutes long, and consist of a few minutes of airwork, then the circuit and landing- which you may do no more than one of. This doesn't leave a lot of time for inflight reflection on an experience. On the flipside- in power, you will experience (ie learn) much more on a single flight because you are able to fly a maneuver, level out, talk about it, try it again, talk about it, climb back to altitude, try it once more, etc... In power you can apply what you learned by bouncing that last touch and go immediately as you fly 'round the patch for another shot at it... instead of having to relaunch twenty minutes later, fly a tow, a maneuver, then remember what happened last time.
There is no reason not to get your glider's license first, as mentioned here, many do and later go on to power- gliding is a blast, and a much more 'free' form of flying once you have the hang of it- but if you decide that route, go for it with all your effort- put power on a back burner till then. Mixing glider and power, in my opinion- whatever that's worth, is not reccomended- I think it will only cause much confusion, leading to frustration, leading to worse decisions such as dropping one hobby or the other. Go for one skill set- then the other after success in the first, if you so desire- and go big. Best of luck.
If you begin gliding lessons now, then you will have to make a decision to commit to the license- otherwise it will be a waste of time.
At 4 hours into flight training, you are leaning like crazy every flight how to keep up to the airplane, and it takes 100% of your concentration; at this point, the skills you need to learn will be common between glider and power- how to get off the ground, keep things under control, and get back without breaking anything important. So why is there a benefit to one or the other? Hopefully what follows might help a little:
(This is a pro-power biased writeup, but hopefully it holds a bit of logic):
In power, first, you do not have to worry about control during the tow (your workload is less)- and any glider pilot here will agree- the tow is not an easy task to learn initially. So right off the bat, a glider flight will begin with moderate stress.
Secondly, in power, you have the option of going 'back up'... in gliding, you can go whatever vertical direction you want, so long as it's down. Your initial gliding flights will be 10 to 15 minutes long, and consist of a few minutes of airwork, then the circuit and landing- which you may do no more than one of. This doesn't leave a lot of time for inflight reflection on an experience. On the flipside- in power, you will experience (ie learn) much more on a single flight because you are able to fly a maneuver, level out, talk about it, try it again, talk about it, climb back to altitude, try it once more, etc... In power you can apply what you learned by bouncing that last touch and go immediately as you fly 'round the patch for another shot at it... instead of having to relaunch twenty minutes later, fly a tow, a maneuver, then remember what happened last time.
There is no reason not to get your glider's license first, as mentioned here, many do and later go on to power- gliding is a blast, and a much more 'free' form of flying once you have the hang of it- but if you decide that route, go for it with all your effort- put power on a back burner till then. Mixing glider and power, in my opinion- whatever that's worth, is not reccomended- I think it will only cause much confusion, leading to frustration, leading to worse decisions such as dropping one hobby or the other. Go for one skill set- then the other after success in the first, if you so desire- and go big. Best of luck.
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AntiNakedMan
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rotate and fly makes a good point, that 50 of those hours can be counted towards your total for a CPL.
Keep in mind, those 50 hours will take quite a while depending on where you live. Also, when you finish your CPL, who do you think an employer will chose? someone with 250hrs in a prop driven plane or someone with 250 hours, only 200 powered?
There are pros/cons either way... 250 powered is more pertinant to all commercial flying, while the other guy has probably done a hell of a lot more t/o's and landings.
Keep in mind that gliding is not flying.... there are somethings I might do in a glider that I won't do in a plane... like open the canopy to fix the damn yawstring
Anti
Keep in mind, those 50 hours will take quite a while depending on where you live. Also, when you finish your CPL, who do you think an employer will chose? someone with 250hrs in a prop driven plane or someone with 250 hours, only 200 powered?
There are pros/cons either way... 250 powered is more pertinant to all commercial flying, while the other guy has probably done a hell of a lot more t/o's and landings.
Keep in mind that gliding is not flying.... there are somethings I might do in a glider that I won't do in a plane... like open the canopy to fix the damn yawstring
Anti
"It's not the size of the hammer, it's how you nail" - Kanga
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AntiNakedMan
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RatherBeFlying
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Your average glider field will not be flying until May -- generally too muddy until then. I would track down and visit, hang around (that's spend weekends), do guest flights at each club; so, you could find and start gliding at a good club by about July or so.
As before said, with 4 hours you either do one or the other until you have a license. I did mix gliders with power and can testify that it's inefficient.
Doing the power license first saves you doing the glider written for what it's worth.
As before said, with 4 hours you either do one or the other until you have a license. I did mix gliders with power and can testify that it's inefficient.
Doing the power license first saves you doing the glider written for what it's worth.
Actually, I wasn't thinking about the power flying scholarship people at all. The ones I was referring to were people who may have done their glider licence through cadets, but didn't get the power scholarship (... like meAntiNakedMan wrote:Like Neil says, having a glider licence prior to your PPL can be an asset. I'm certain he failed to mention that the people he knows who did their glider license and then their PPL in near minimum times did both through the Air Cadet program...
) and had to pay for their own - often years later.In any case, I'm in overall agreement that whichever route you choose get one licence before doing the other. I doubt that doing both at the same time would have any benefit. I think both routes have their pros and cons, the decision is largely personal choice.
Cheers,
Brew
Brew
Thanks for the advice everyone, I am 40 yrs old so the Cadet thing ain't gonna happen. I appreciate what I would gain by going thru the glider license but I'm chompin at the bit to get my ppl. I may also have the opportunity to get in some time in a 172 with a construction client this summer ( although I guess I can't log it if he's not current as an instructor) so I am going to concentrate on the ppl.
Thanks again, and since that worked so well I'm gonna start another thread
Thanks again, and since that worked so well I'm gonna start another thread
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mellow_pilot
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Wait a min...
Are you saying that you only want to fly recreationally?
Cause that's a whole different kettle of fish! You could easily split the cash between a Rec licence (watered-down ppl, has a couple restrictions) and soaring.
Best of both worlds! Either way, whatever you decide to do, have fun!!!!
Are you saying that you only want to fly recreationally?
Cause that's a whole different kettle of fish! You could easily split the cash between a Rec licence (watered-down ppl, has a couple restrictions) and soaring.
Best of both worlds! Either way, whatever you decide to do, have fun!!!!
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
