Hi! I have zero hours right now but want to get the following:
PPL, CPL and Single Engine instrument rating.
Along with that i'll have to work p/t or even f/t as well. i'm 25 years old and have a university degree in economics but have always had a passion for flying. i just want to take that left seat in a 152 or 172 and take-off!!
Helps that my dad's flying the big ones.
Im in Hamilton, ontario but willing to relocate for a better flying school.
So far i've only looked at websites and haven't had the time to call flying schools yet.
Can someone please tell me if getting only the CPL, PPL and Single IFR will help me get a small job after 200-230 hrs?
Also i'd like to know how much is the approx. cost for attaining these. I'm aware it varies with time and ratings etc. but on average i have estimated around $25000 - $30000 for a CPL with single IFR.
Finally, i've heard a lot about Harv's flying school in MB. Can anyone tell me about the school and surroundings?
Thanks appreciate it!!
Clueless
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore
Hey there! It all depends on where you want to go and what you want to do. Will you go the instructing route? float/dockhand? or ramp for eternity?
Ask yourself where you want to end up. a single engine IFR is not going to do you any good in the commercial world. Most if not all operators want the MIFR as they all fly twins. If you plane on going the other direction (floats) don't spend the time and money on the ifr portion.. build some time on floats or fly a tailwheel if you can get your hands on one.
My father too has been around aviation and it's great having him as a resource as well as all of his buds. Ask as many questions as you can.
It's a rough go at first but anyone who tries hard enough and sticks it out will make it.
I've heard good things of Harv's.. theres lots of different ways to go. Tell us what you'd like to end up doing and I'm sure you'll get a much better response.
cheers,
Rowdy
Ask yourself where you want to end up. a single engine IFR is not going to do you any good in the commercial world. Most if not all operators want the MIFR as they all fly twins. If you plane on going the other direction (floats) don't spend the time and money on the ifr portion.. build some time on floats or fly a tailwheel if you can get your hands on one.
My father too has been around aviation and it's great having him as a resource as well as all of his buds. Ask as many questions as you can.
It's a rough go at first but anyone who tries hard enough and sticks it out will make it.
I've heard good things of Harv's.. theres lots of different ways to go. Tell us what you'd like to end up doing and I'm sure you'll get a much better response.
cheers,
Rowdy
Hello there! I'd recomend getting a multi-engine ifr rating (group 1) if your looking to get a job, unless you're planning on going on floats in which case you don't really need the ifr at all. Also since you said your dad is a pilot as well, then you'll probably have no problems finding a job if you have the required ratings. Hope this helps, and good luck!
I'm with everyone else on this one. Don't do the Single IFR. If float is the route, hold off until you need one. Otherwise go straight to the MIFR. Remember getting the Multi IFR doesn't mean you need 40 hrs flying a twin. You can do a good portion in the FTD, and do most of the rest in a Single. Then just do a few hrs in the twin to get used to it, and fly the test. Try to do your Multi in the same A/C as the Multi IFR. The transition will be easier and shorter.
Just my opinion. Good luck in it all. Its fun once you get past the BULL.
BTD
Just my opinion. Good luck in it all. Its fun once you get past the BULL.
BTD
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MichaelWimmer
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Pilot_adam
- Rank 5
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 3:28 pm
- Location: CYHM
Well …
Since you live in Hamilton why don’t you go to Peninsulair in Mounthope, I am doing my PPL with them and hopefully my CPL afterwards …
I can only say great stuff about Peninsulair.
I would suggest you to go and get an introductory flight with one of the instructors over there and you will see by yourself..
The Pipers they have are great trainers and they keep them in a great condition.
I am having a great experience with them and this is why I would like you to do so,I never regretted a dollar I spent there because every dollar I spent was worth it, You will learn something new every minute.
I don’t NOT work at Peninsulair, I am just a student over there.
Good luck
Cheers
Adam
Since you live in Hamilton why don’t you go to Peninsulair in Mounthope, I am doing my PPL with them and hopefully my CPL afterwards …
I can only say great stuff about Peninsulair.
I would suggest you to go and get an introductory flight with one of the instructors over there and you will see by yourself..
The Pipers they have are great trainers and they keep them in a great condition.
I am having a great experience with them and this is why I would like you to do so,I never regretted a dollar I spent there because every dollar I spent was worth it, You will learn something new every minute.
I don’t NOT work at Peninsulair, I am just a student over there.
Good luck
Cheers
Adam
WOOHOO!!! Another Pilot/Economist!!!! 
Im just finishing up a double major Econ/Poli with an EU concentration. Although truth be told in this industry I don’t think our papers mean jack :p
Anyway, welcome to aviation your gonna love it!
One of the first things your going to learn about this crazy world and especially here on the net, is that you can take 100 pilots stick them in a room to answer a question and end up with 240 perfectly right totally conflicting opinions; there is no RIGHT answer, just different paths to different conclusions.
IMO like everyone else says the group 3 IFR (single engine IFR) is a total waste of time. If your dad flys for the big leagues I am assuming that is the direction you want to get to eventually. In which case I would say totally do the IFR, get your Group 1 rating (Multi Engine) even if you don’t use it for the first few years of working at least you have it, so when the medivac guys across the hall from the school your teaching at say they need an FO for the king air RIGHT NOW!!!!! Then you can just walk across the hall, and not have to spend the next 4 months rattling off an ME and MEIFR. BTW keep it current/up to date you’ll learn all about how to do that in a year or 2!
As for a price of $30K that’s a nice round number. It will probably get you most of the way to “employable.” But like Rowdy says it really depends on where you find your first job. If you end up teaching (what I am doing) add $6,000. If you go the float rout it may be as much as another $12,000 If you end up selling out and buying a PPC that’s probably $8,000 (btw I would NOT recommend this, there is a LOT of bad blood out there for pilots who pay for their job…) then again I suppose one could make the same argument over an IR, but hey at least you learn the beginnings of a real skill… Or so I like to delude myself…
Iv heard of Harv’s school, mind you that’s just from the net I have no idea about the operation. I think they offer JAA ratings there too (may be an option for a job if you can get an EU passport.) One thing I would HIGHLY recommend, when looking for the RIGHT school try to find one that does charter work as well (also called section 7 work.) The rational being, that for the next 2.5 years of your life you will be at a job interview. Always be professional during your training, don’t show up to a lesson hung-over. Get to know the owner, the Chief Pilot, the Chief Flight Instructor, and the other staff/students. Schools that do charter work like to higher in company, which can be a perfect transition for your first job.
There is tons to learn, and I would take this job over sitting in an RBC tower pushing paper around ANY day even if it makes $400,000/y less. The thing to remember above all however is be persistent, there are a lot of people out there that want to fly, but it’s the people who stick with it to the end who actually make it.
The best of luck!
-walk
Im just finishing up a double major Econ/Poli with an EU concentration. Although truth be told in this industry I don’t think our papers mean jack :p Anyway, welcome to aviation your gonna love it!
One of the first things your going to learn about this crazy world and especially here on the net, is that you can take 100 pilots stick them in a room to answer a question and end up with 240 perfectly right totally conflicting opinions; there is no RIGHT answer, just different paths to different conclusions.
IMO like everyone else says the group 3 IFR (single engine IFR) is a total waste of time. If your dad flys for the big leagues I am assuming that is the direction you want to get to eventually. In which case I would say totally do the IFR, get your Group 1 rating (Multi Engine) even if you don’t use it for the first few years of working at least you have it, so when the medivac guys across the hall from the school your teaching at say they need an FO for the king air RIGHT NOW!!!!! Then you can just walk across the hall, and not have to spend the next 4 months rattling off an ME and MEIFR. BTW keep it current/up to date you’ll learn all about how to do that in a year or 2!
As for a price of $30K that’s a nice round number. It will probably get you most of the way to “employable.” But like Rowdy says it really depends on where you find your first job. If you end up teaching (what I am doing) add $6,000. If you go the float rout it may be as much as another $12,000 If you end up selling out and buying a PPC that’s probably $8,000 (btw I would NOT recommend this, there is a LOT of bad blood out there for pilots who pay for their job…) then again I suppose one could make the same argument over an IR, but hey at least you learn the beginnings of a real skill… Or so I like to delude myself…
Iv heard of Harv’s school, mind you that’s just from the net I have no idea about the operation. I think they offer JAA ratings there too (may be an option for a job if you can get an EU passport.) One thing I would HIGHLY recommend, when looking for the RIGHT school try to find one that does charter work as well (also called section 7 work.) The rational being, that for the next 2.5 years of your life you will be at a job interview. Always be professional during your training, don’t show up to a lesson hung-over. Get to know the owner, the Chief Pilot, the Chief Flight Instructor, and the other staff/students. Schools that do charter work like to higher in company, which can be a perfect transition for your first job.
There is tons to learn, and I would take this job over sitting in an RBC tower pushing paper around ANY day even if it makes $400,000/y less. The thing to remember above all however is be persistent, there are a lot of people out there that want to fly, but it’s the people who stick with it to the end who actually make it.
The best of luck!
-walk
hey guys:
really appreciate the feedback. its great to see ppl wanting to help out. yeah i figure a single engine won't do much. better to shove out a few extra Gs and go for the Multi IFR. the reason i was thinking of doing only single engine is cause that's all that is required by the airline im looking to get into: Pakistan International. My dad's doing simulator for the brand new 777 LR and he's pretty excited about his new toy. So thats got my blood going as well. But in order to get qualified, i guess i'll have to get Multi IFR to be able to fly charter or something in Canada before i go for the airline job.
Im still very new in the industry here and probably wont be starting before June as im goin out on vacation but i'd like to do my research so that im ready to go when i come back in june.
Can anyone tell me, realistically what are the chances of getting a charter or a bush job with around 200TT and multi ifr CPL?
i agree with you walker, i'd rather be in the cockpit than being part of the financial 9 to 5 world. i dont care if i even have to struggle for a few years(which most pilots do) cause the ultimate reward is great. YOU GET TO FLY!!
Lets hope it works out.
Pilot adam: i'm thinking of going to Mount hope and get a fam flight this weekend. can't wait to get behind those controls.
finally, thanks a lot for your advice guys. hope to stay in touch!
happy landings!
really appreciate the feedback. its great to see ppl wanting to help out. yeah i figure a single engine won't do much. better to shove out a few extra Gs and go for the Multi IFR. the reason i was thinking of doing only single engine is cause that's all that is required by the airline im looking to get into: Pakistan International. My dad's doing simulator for the brand new 777 LR and he's pretty excited about his new toy. So thats got my blood going as well. But in order to get qualified, i guess i'll have to get Multi IFR to be able to fly charter or something in Canada before i go for the airline job.
Im still very new in the industry here and probably wont be starting before June as im goin out on vacation but i'd like to do my research so that im ready to go when i come back in june.
Can anyone tell me, realistically what are the chances of getting a charter or a bush job with around 200TT and multi ifr CPL?
i agree with you walker, i'd rather be in the cockpit than being part of the financial 9 to 5 world. i dont care if i even have to struggle for a few years(which most pilots do) cause the ultimate reward is great. YOU GET TO FLY!!
Lets hope it works out.
Pilot adam: i'm thinking of going to Mount hope and get a fam flight this weekend. can't wait to get behind those controls.
finally, thanks a lot for your advice guys. hope to stay in touch!
happy landings!
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skyundertow
- Rank 1
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:08 pm
With 200TT, a bare CPL and MIFR, its not likely that you will get a right seat job to use your MIFR. Even if you do manage to find one, it might not be your best move, considering the PIC requirements for your ATPL (if you plan on completing your ATPL one day). It would be more realistic to work as an instructor, tow pilot, jump pilot, traffic watch or do scenic tours etc. on a single engine aircraft. You might be able to find a float job, but most operators prefer guys with a bit more time and float experience. However, your connections could help but you may have to work the ramp first.
Your MIFR will probably lapse before you use it, and it costs $ to renew. I did a straight CPL without getting my MIFR, more for financial reasons. At the time, everyone else that I was training with was doing their MIFR (as schools seem to push it to make $), and I felt like I should be doing it as well. In hindsight, I'm glad I waited to do my MIFR until I had more experience. It cost less to do it, since I knew that much more about flying, and it never lapsed. I'm not trying to discourage you against getting your MIFR, but rather to give you a heads up. If you have the $ and the connections, go for it. Perhaps when you start out, you could do some flying on a single engine, and then as Walker mentioned, get the odd bit of multi flying as well to keep current.
One more note: If you're planning to go the airline route, some companies have a min PIC time requirement for Captain upgrades. This is another reason for not getting so excited about getting a co-joe job with only 200hrs. I've just seen too many guys with 1000's of hrs as an FO get frustrated over not getting an upgrade.
Hope this just provides a different perspective. By the way, I worked for 5 years in a bank, and I much prefer the view from my office window now!
Your MIFR will probably lapse before you use it, and it costs $ to renew. I did a straight CPL without getting my MIFR, more for financial reasons. At the time, everyone else that I was training with was doing their MIFR (as schools seem to push it to make $), and I felt like I should be doing it as well. In hindsight, I'm glad I waited to do my MIFR until I had more experience. It cost less to do it, since I knew that much more about flying, and it never lapsed. I'm not trying to discourage you against getting your MIFR, but rather to give you a heads up. If you have the $ and the connections, go for it. Perhaps when you start out, you could do some flying on a single engine, and then as Walker mentioned, get the odd bit of multi flying as well to keep current.
One more note: If you're planning to go the airline route, some companies have a min PIC time requirement for Captain upgrades. This is another reason for not getting so excited about getting a co-joe job with only 200hrs. I've just seen too many guys with 1000's of hrs as an FO get frustrated over not getting an upgrade.
Hope this just provides a different perspective. By the way, I worked for 5 years in a bank, and I much prefer the view from my office window now!
