Class 4 flight test?

[turn&pull]

Hi everyone
I have a class 4 instructor ride in the near future and was wondering what to expect or what other people had. Any help would be great.
Please no advice like read the FTM or FGU as that is no help.
Thanks

[200hr Wonder]

I will let you know mine is on the 10th of April

[shamrock104]

Make sure your lesson plans are easy to understand. Treat the examiner like a student and keep it simple on the ground when delivering the PGI.
Get the examiner to do as much of the flying as possible as they are playing the part of the student. If they do anything unsafe take control right away and try and correct their mistake. You will probably get one of the upper air exercises to teach, stalls, spins, steep turns are all favourites. On my return from the training area my examiner asked me to choose an Instrument and teach then a little about it. It was then back to the airport for a couple of circuits. Dont forget to provide the de brief at the end of the flight. In a nutshell, just relax and enjoy the flight and treat it like any other flight. I walked away from my flight learning a thing or two from the examiner. Hope this assists.

[Hedley]

If you can get to the aircraft, you've got it made.

Suggestions:

1) KNOW THE DIFFERENCE between a prep ground lesson and a pre-flight briefing.

2) During the prep ground lesson, try really hard not to drone endlessly in a monotone voice. I know the playacting is hard, but for each lesson, have some relevant questions to ask the student (examiner). Why is it important that you ask the student questions?

3) when explaining things, stick to the relevant material. It is easy to talk yourself into a hole.

4) Bring along your own weight in paper. If asked a question you don't know, look it up (FTGU, FIG, AIM, POH/AFM, CARs).

[Kenny G]

To add to all the good advice above me...

If the question is too in-depth or crazy say, "That is for another lesson" and get back to teaching what he wanted you to. As a class 4 you are not expected to be perfect, so go into your ride with the attitude that "your there to learn something"

Good luck!!

Glad to see another instructor... great career choice.

[200hr Wonder]

Thanks for all the advice, now I just need a good stiff drink to calm my nerves.

[bob sacamano]

What was said above was very good advice. Follow it all.

Few more hints.

- Bring your books
- Be prepared
- Keep the PGI running smooth (i.e. don't get de-railed)
- Treat him like a student and keep cool
- Get the student (examiner) to take you to the practice area (give him a map and tell him to navigate to it)
- Keep the examiner busy in the airplane (i.e. flying it)

As for what I got;

To Teach:
- Pre-Cautionary landing --> PGI and in airplane
- Spiral dive --> in airplane
- Attitudes & movements --> in airplane
- Soft field take-off --> in airplane

To Demonstrate:

- Steep turns
- Engine failure
- Short field landing

Don't forget your de-brief.

Thanks for all the advice, now I just need a good stiff drink to calm my nerves.

Relax dude, simple ride.

Good luck

[Walker]

If you know who your examiner is going to be, ask around the field what her/his pet peeves are… When I getting ready to do my ride my then CFI had gone to a refresher seminar a few months before and the examiner happened to give the class his rendition of a steep turn lesson. My CFI had taken some VERY good notes, which I was given an opportunity to look over… and guess what lesson I was assigned on D day…
Also keep on track do NOT go off on a tangent, do NOT discuss things that are not VITAL to the lesson. Many people have been doing just fine on an exam, maybe went into a little too much detail on one topic, the examiner asks a question or too, sees a weakness and blasts you out of the water. Also if you are TOTALLY stumped remember Primacy; it is better to say “Im sorry that’s a somewhat complicated question ill have to ask a senior instructor and get back to you”… IE the worst thing you can do is mislead a student, better to back out of the question than try to BS through it… believe me you will NOT be able to BS the examiner.

Also ask the examiner questions when the opportunity presents its self they are great sources of information for you; and they will be impressed that you are continuing to better yourself. As stated above they do not expect perfection, they want to see that you are safe and wont mislead students (in the words of my examiner.)

Good luck!

[BTD]

Bring things like foggles and stuff. That way if they ask you to do Instrument work you are prepared and there is no scrabling.

I got the first hour of navigation to teach ground and air

First hr of instrument- in the air

and demo crosswind take-off and landing

[JW]

range and endurance on the ground, range and endurance in the air. What I learned, talk just enough so the examiner hears what he wants to. Also have an open mind and be prepared to learn a thing or two as well.

JW

[Clodhopper]

Forced Landings PGI and in-flight, then the 'out of the hat' exercise was slow flight. I also had to fly a soft-field landing to commercial standards, and demonstrate the commercial standard 180-reversal steep turn. As for what I had to 'grade', she did a short field takeoff over an obstacle (gave her a 2 )

PGI was smooth, but make sure you open with a real good attention-grabbing opening sentence. I thought mine was pretty good, but my examiner said afterwards: "For forced approaches, try to stress, in one emotional sentence, that if I dont learn this, I die."

I dunno. Other than what has already been said, there's not much else for you to worry about. Good luck.

[threegreen]

If you teach attitudes and movements, by god don't mention a thing about the attitude indicator. Big mistake. Wouldn't let it go for the rest of the flight. Keep the focus to safety, safety, safety. Look outside and take control whenever things get out of hand.

Good luck!

[OW]

mtc, good advice.

Safety, as noted in the Flight test guide, could cost you the ride.

Also remember to take control when you are talking.

Critique: What was good (several key points)/ one major mistake (pick the one that will do the most to correct the exercise[shouldn't be that major])/ how to correct the mistake. If there is no correction, there is no mistake.

Good Luck!

[Pugster]

The most important recommendation I could make is to be sure that you don't say anything that could be interpreted as dangerous. If you aren't 100% sure, clam up and don't talk yourself into a corner. That advice you just gave your "student" could potentially cost you the ride.

If you don't know, admit it, grab a reference, and show the examiner that you know where to find the information that isn't committed to memory. Remember - instructors will screw up - but the good ones will use their own mistakes as learning tools for both themselves and the student. So when you pooch that steep turn or other demo because of nerves, explain what you did wrong, take a deep breath, and give a second demo (better make it a good one!).

And for any initial exercise you're teaching, don't overcomplicate it (ie: the attitude indicator on attitudes and movements, a list of procedures a mile long on the first forced approach, etc.). Try to convince yourself that the examiner in the seat next to you is a low-time student. Keep it simple, concise, and easy to absorb...and when it doubt, stick to the basics.

And above all else, enjoy the ride and try to learn as much as you can if you wind up with a good examiner.

And once you wind up teaching, remember that the student isn't just a way to build hours...give'r hell and enjoy!

[Justwannafly]

I will let you know mine is on the 10th of April

REALY?...hmm thought you were already an instructor

[AntiNakedMan]

had to fly a soft-field landing to commercial standards

What's the commercial standard for a soft-field? Isn't the emphasis the same as in a PPL?

Anti

[JW]

Performance criteria for the soft-field approach and landing are exactly the same for the private and commercial flight test, word for word. I think however that the examiner holds a commercial candidate to a higher standard than a private candidate...I think anyway.

But then this is off topic
JW

[Hotwings]

All of the aforementioned information is excellent.

I had to teach many things....I was deep into the practice area that they use in Hamilton, so for fun (I guess) the examiner asked me to teach a few extra lessons. Taught Forced on the ground and in the air (he even landed the plane in the field I chose which was a private strip, that belonged apparently to one of his friends), demo of a steep turn, attitudes and movements, stall, spin, short field with obstacle landing, and initial instruments. Brutal. Felt like I was on my commercial flight test again.

When I did my ride two years ago....the examiner was very interested in seeing new instructors teach attitudes & movements in this order: Yaw, Roll, Pitch, instead of Pitch, Roll, Yaw. In fact he actually thought it should be broken up into two seperate lessons of attitudes one day and movements another, but that's a whole different topic.

Relax.....and definately bring all of your books with you. I had a "brain fart" during my ground, but because I had every aviation book in tow with me....the examiner allowed me to look it up with no penalty....you're a class IV....they know that.

Good luck.

[Switchfoot]

Hi everyone
I have a class 4 instructor ride in the near future and was wondering what to expect or what other people had. Any help would be great.

Be able to fly your airplane to Commercial Flight test standards from the right seat. Relax and have fun!

I had to demonstrate a stall from a descending turn on my initial Class IV ride. Good times!

But all of the advice already given in the responses should suffice.


Swithcfoot.

[Cat Driver]

" ....the examiner was very interested in seeing new instructors teach attitudes & movements in this order: Yaw, Roll, Pitch, instead of Pitch, Roll Yaw. In fact he actually thought it should be broken up into two seperate lessons of attitudes one day and movements another, but that's a whole different topic. "

Did he give any reason for that method?

And how do you demonstrate an attitude without producing a movement to change an attitude?

Cat

[Hotwings]

The examiner said he liked the method of Yaw, Roll, Pitch, because when you start with yaw....you can explain if we don't correct for yaw, it will result in roll....it's a nice lead into then showing them what roll is all about......

As far as the two seperate lessons, he believed that attitudes and movements is the most important lesson we can teach our students....the first flight should consist only of movements.....showing them up and down, side to side. on the second flight we can then demonstrate the attitudes from the movements on the previous flight.

I can agree with the Yaw, Roll, Pitch, but attitudes and movements taking two lessons is pushing it!

Hotwings

[Cat Driver]

" As far as the two seperate lessons, he believed that attitudes and movements is the most important lesson we can teach our students....the first flight should consist only of movements.....showing them up and down, side to side. on the second flight we can then demonstrate the attitudes from the movements on the previous flight. "

Well I agree on his opinion that attitudes and movements are the most important lesson to be taught, but for the student to understand is another matter.

I use a far different method to demonstrate and teach attitudes and movements. But I guess when I learned to fly and got my instructors rating ( late fifties ) we were maybe still in the stone age and my instructors just had not progressed to the level of todays teachers.

Funny thing though my generation can fly most anything and something as basic as a tail wheel airplane is not looked upon as difficult.

Cat

Cat

[Pugster]

Without a doubt, attitudes and movements is the most critical lesson for students to learn.

The key is to make sure that you teach it on every lesson - as just about every error a student will make in flight training can be related to this "initial" exercise.

My 2c.

Pugster

[TC Guy]

The examiner said he liked the method of Yaw, Roll, Pitch, because when you start with yaw....you can explain if we don't correct for yaw, it will result in roll....it's a nice lead into then showing them what roll is all about......

As far as the two seperate lessons, he believed that attitudes and movements is the most important lesson we can teach our students....the first flight should consist only of movements.....showing them up and down, side to side. on the second flight we can then demonstrate the attitudes from the movements on the previous flight.

I can agree with the Yaw, Roll, Pitch, but attitudes and movements taking two lessons is pushing it!

Hotwings

Remember... every examiner (including myself) have an "opinion". It is not mandated by TC, god, or anyone else-- it what has worked for us. Your lesson must meet the intent, content, and standards of the Flight Training Manual and Flight Instructor Guide (and of course, in the Inspector's opinion, your teaching must be "effective").

If you have meet the standard, you should pass. The Class 4 Instructor ride, is without a doubt, the most subjective of all flight tests.

Take what you can from the expereince. You *should* learn something from it, regardless of the outcome.

Secret: All of the Inspectors that do initial Flight Instructor flight tests are former instructors. We love to teach! Keep us happy by looking interested, and nodding your head at the appropriate time.

Experience comes from doing-- and from listening to everyone. What works for them may not for you (and vice-versa).

Good luck!

-Guy

[duplicate2]

Funny thing though my generation can fly most anything and something as basic as a tail wheel airplane is not looked upon as difficult.

Can't believe it took you this long to weigh in!

Couple of points with regard to your absurd statement:

1. Assuming everyone of your generation is better than everyone of the more recent generations, could this be because they have 20,000+ TT versus 200 TT?

2. Ever considered that some of the pilots who have come after you aren't as comfortable flying a tailwheel because they just haven't been exposed to them? Just like plenty of old timers have a hell of a time with EFIS since the Tiger Moth they learned in didn't have it?