Things you'd do on a ride, but never in 'real life'

[The Other Kind]

Have my OFP completed prior to departure. I've never understood how TC could not pick up on this during an audit. Bumpy days always meant barely legible OFP's...

VOT checks...

Tie down shit in the back (survival gear etc)...

Best of all - leave the damn indent playing in the headset throughout the entire NDB approach.

[Cat Driver]

WTF is an OFP?

[The Other Kind]

Sorry Cat, I forgot you might be lurking here

Operational Flight Plan.

[co-joe]

Giving someonw an actual emerg is a move of the lowest calibre. The purpose of a ride is to test simulated emergencies, not actual ones. So what if the fuel line won't feed the engine after you turn the fuel off or the selector breaks? Are you going to wait until the student stalls at 50 feet or overrruns the field into a barbed wire fence before you say "ha ha ha just kidding"?

The FAA used to do actual single engine go arounds in light twins until an inspector and a student fell below Vma at low altitude and cartwheeled in. Now they realize doing it at altuitude in not only better training since the engine performance is further degraded, thus trauining value higher, but safety margins are also wider.

And who was that who said they set the DG to GPS track???? Holy cow, What happens when your old DG precesses and you have a big x-wind,and you need to shoot an NDB approach in the mountains?

[Cat Driver]

" Holy cow, What happens when your old DG precesses and you have a big x-wind,and you need to shoot an NDB approach in the mountains? "


Well it'sunlikely in 2006 I'd be relying on a piece of crap DG for heading information and I would defy all logic and use the GPS for cross checking my position....

Would you believe that GPS is eons more accurate than a DG and an ADF?

By the way, we fly with three GPS, so redundancy is sort of looked after..


Hi The Other Kind:

" Sorry Cat, I forgot you might be lurking here

Operational Flight Plan. "


Man I been flyin outside Canada for so long I have gotten way behind the curve in acronyms......thanks..

Cat

[FlyYukon]

When the examiner pulls the throttle and says "simulated engine failure", give him a threatening look, push it back in again, and growl "simulated engine restart". If he gives you static about that, next time a throttle comes back, scream "Eject! Eject! Eject!" as loud as you can over the intercom, frantically toss off your headset, rapidly undo your seatbelts and claw desperately at the handle as you try to open the door.

I have my CPL ride in a few days, I might try the first one, but I dont think the Eject idea would go to well, plus it costs me more money!!

I'll probly say: Simulated fuel shutoff valve OFF, simulated switch to on, simulated engine restart...

FY

[Blue Side Down]

Why would you not fly a single engine-engine failure at the best glide speed? Assuming there is no fire, or headwind, would you not want to stick with the perspective that you have become used to while practicing forced approaches up until now? Also, who climbs out at Vx? Would it not be more advantageous to climb at Vy, considering that would give you the most altitude in the least time; therefore, the most time to deal with the situation? Don't want to beat the Vx vs. Vy thing to death ... it's been done on previous posts, but it just makes sense to me.

Not looking to stir shit up, just a couple intelligent answers please.

Thanks.

That was a rather broad statement, I realize...
In calm conditions- best glide works well- like you say, it's something youre used to, tried and proven.

In other conditions, I think that carrying a bit of speed adds a litte safety- especially when shear might (likely will be) be encountered. In the end, the speed is fairly subjective on the conditions, aircraft, terrain...

As for Vx Vy, Vy is always preferable- my thought was that on many of the standard 'flight tests', an examiner may ask for a climbout at Vx- sure it's good practice, but if the engine sputters and dies at 75 or 100 feet, you're toast- you won't have enough energy to arrive back on terra-firmer softly.

[Hedley]

If you're afraid to touch the fuel selector in the air, directly overhead a quiet airport, perhaps it's just best to stay on the ground from now on.

Many aircraft don't have a "both tanks" fuel selector position, both high-wing and low-wing. So, you're going to run on one tank for a while, then switch to the other tank. That's the way these aircraft are intended to be operated.

After you fly for a while, you will learn that it is quite common for pilots to leave the fuel selector on one tank for too long, and run it dry.

The main problem then is the pilot - in the burst of adrenaline, he may rip the handle right off the fuel selector.

If you care about the facts, it is a certification requirement for airplanes, that within X seconds for carbureted aircraft, and Y seconds for fuel injected aircraft (IIRC X=2 and Y=8) if the fuel is selected off, then on again, the engine must start running again.

Perhaps that's not good enough for you, directly overhead a quiet airport. Perhaps you should work on your forced approaches, which frankly most power pilots are dreadful at.

I suspect I've run more tanks dry than you've had girlfriends (shrug).

Likely before you were born, I learned the trick of watching the fuel pressure gauge when the tank gets low - as soon as the needles starts to wiggle, switch tanks, boost pump on. The engine won't even miss a beat.

I will defer to the experts here, but I would rather land with 6 gallons in one tank, and one tank dry, instead of 3 gallons in one tank and 3 gallons in the other.

[Jude]

that sounds exciting...you can do the same thing with a 172 too eh?...so what do you do?...one hand on the yoke and the other pushing the door out?......you need to push the nose down to keep airspeed right?

[Hedley]

you can do the same thing with a 172 too eh?

I dunno. Call up Transport and ask them, it's their maneuver.

[goldeneagle]

But there is ONE thing a Cessna does VERY well, and that's descend. I am not making this up. Cessnas go down very well (so to speak).

....

So here we are, at 500 AGL, right over the numbers. Off goes the power, out goes 40 degrees of flaps, and the crazy bastard has me open the door on my side (another 10 degrees of flaps) while he pushes the door open on his side (another 10 degrees of flaps) for a total of 60 degrees of flaps.

I didn't think it would be possible, but, reading this one makes me start contemplating the rental of a 150 for a couple of circuits next time I get out to the airport. Never thought I'd actually get the urge to fly a buck and a half again....

[flyinhigh]

But there is ONE thing a Cessna does VERY well, and that's descend. I am not making this up. Cessnas go down very well (so to speak).

....

So here we are, at 500 AGL, right over the numbers. Off goes the power, out goes 40 degrees of flaps, and the crazy bastard has me open the door on my side (another 10 degrees of flaps) while he pushes the door open on his side (another 10 degrees of flaps) for a total of 60 degrees of flaps.

lol, hedley I think that you've just started a nation wide frenzy here with all the guys in school flying these planes still.

[Jude]

anyone of you opened the canopyof a glider while in flight to fix your yaw string?
Imagine doing that on a check ride..."yea just fixing my yaw string here"

[AntiNakedMan]

anyone of you opened the canopyof a glider while in flight to fix your yaw string?
Imagine doing that on a check ride..."yea just fixing my yaw string here"

Ha ha back at my gliding zone I've got an old story.... I was on one of my solos at RGS and it was pretty windy that day and I was still pretty fresh, but every damn takeoff the yaw string got screwed up.

So finally, I decide that I'll fix this. Get dropped at 2000', get leveled out, Trim to 45 or so, undo my straps.... get into a crouch.... open the canopy....

Realize how stupid I would feel if I fell out of the glider at 1700' trying to fix a fucking yaw string fighting 45 mph of airspeed... I closed the canopy, did up my straps, and flew unco-ordinated for the rest of the flight.

I'm assuming you were talking about fixing the string dual?

Also, about the door-flap trick, we've done that in gliders a bit, I hear it works well but you have to put in a little left foot to keep it straight. The 2-33 has a side door for the back seat, makes a bit of drag.

Anti

[xsbank]

Those are great, Hedley. Another goodie is to drop your pen on the floor and ask the student to find it, as soon as he looks down he has a runaway 'up' trim. Rolling it off, flaps or gear are essential before he pops a vein or stalls it cold. This is particularly exciting in a jet.

[Dog]

Why would you not fly a single engine-engine failure at the best glide speed?

To get somewhere quicker to change my shorts...

[Missed_Approach]

Draw a line on a sectional. What sectional? I have a friend, he threw out all his maps. He has a garmin 396, he flies for a while then hits the "nearest" button to pick an airport to land at.

Lots of pilots I know put their GPS track on their heading indicator. Who needs a compass and why should your heading be different than your track?

Speaking of examiners ... I have had very good luck on flight tests, just before engine start, lean over to the examiner and say, "When I think of you, I touch myself".

When the examiner pulls the throttle and says "simulated engine failure", give him a threatening look, push it back in again, and growl "simulated engine restart". If he gives you static about that, next time a throttle comes back, scream "Eject! Eject! Eject!" as loud as you can over the intercom, frantically toss off your headset, rapidly undo your seatbelts and claw desperately at the handle as you try to open the door.

Examiners really appreciate a candidate with a sense of humour. Remember that like a traffic cop, they've seen it all before, so you get bonus points for creativity.

From the examiner's standpoint, probably the most entertaining item is unusual attitude recovery. When the candidate has their head down, trim the nose all the way down and crank the bars on the attitude indicator all the way down, so that when the candidate looks up, he think's he's nose high, so he'll stuff the nose down, helped by the trim. Boy, candidates get grumpy when they realize that the AI is feeding them bad information.

A friend of mine told me this one:

An instructor was up with a student, and did the very same thing to simulate an engine failure; pulled the mixture, and the engine came to a stop. But what the instructor forgot, was that the aircraft was a 'push-prop' start. They certainly did NOT get to restart, and had to perform a real forced approach.


note: I'm not sure of what the real term for 'push-prop' aircraft is, maybe someone could clarify.

[Hedley]

aircraft was a 'push-prop' start

Urban legends. Gotta love 'em.

Newer airplanes all have electric starters, with the exception of the russian radials, who use compressed air.

But older aircraft, which didn't have electrical systems, didn't have electric starters, and had to be "hand-propped" by someone standing in front of them, on the ground, to start them by swinging the blades, so that with proper priming, the impulse couplings of the magnetos would spin and provide a retarded spark.

Now for the urban legend portion of your story .... even with the fuel or ignition removed from an engine, it will still continue to windmill. You may think that the prop will stop, but it's actually quite difficult to make the prop stop - I know, I've done it before. You have to slow the aircraft right down, to get rid of the airflow past the prop.

Or, have a feathering propeller, like a twin. But these kinds of counter-weighted constant-speed props are never seen on light single-engine aircraft without electrical systems.

[BTD]

I am currently instructing on an airplane that has 2 possible types of props on it. The POH says that for one it will stop windmilling at 48 I think. And the prop our aircraft has at 60kts. Considering best glide is 73, if the POH is correct it wouldn't be that hard to do on this particular aircraft. (mind you we have electrical starters)

[Hedley]

P.S. A wooden prop is easier to stop than a metal prop. Why?

[Missed_Approach]

P.S. A wooden prop is easier to stop than a metal prop. Why?

It has less weight, so less centrifugal force?


-- LOL, and thanks for clearing that up. I'm gonna mention it to my friend today, let him know his story is just a legend. : sigh :

So are you saying that really, the engine could in fact ' restart ' the aircraft it was that 'push-prop' type due to the windmill effect? Very interesting.

[Hedley]

It has less weight, so less centrifugal force?

Close enough. The metal prop (even if the total weight is the same as the wood prop, which I admit is unlikely) has more mass at a greater distance from the hub than the light wooden blades.

This is technically called "polar moment of inertia" and is calculated as the integral of radius squared dm, as any Transport Canada Inspector could tell you.

Brief lesson on polar moment of inertia. Put 4 eggs in an egg carton, in the center spots. Put the egg carton on a shiny table top and hold it by the center, and rotate it back and forth. See how with all the mass concentrated at the center, it doesn't take much torque to start and stop it rotating?

Next, open up the egg carton and put 2 eggs at each end. Repeat the test above. See the greater torque required to start and stop rotation?

Again, any Transport Canada Inspector could explain polar moment of inertia, and could easily calculate it for you. Be sure to mention it on your next instructor re-ride.

the engine could in fact ' restart ' the aircraft it was that 'push-prop' type due to the windmill effect? Very interesting.

More urban legends now ... lore has it that if you stop the prop, you can start it again by diving to Vne (or beyond). Those that fly twins (esp without unfeathering accumulators) may be aware of this.

Just remember that the aircraft glides a whole lot better with the prop stopped.

[32a]

Reality check for opening cabin doors in flight.

You may be disrupting airflow over the tail thus reducing rudder effectiveness. On the Beech Musketeer (CT-134), approach speed was increased to account for reduced vertical control if the door popped open.

Be careful out there.

[Hedley]

disrupting airflow over the tail

Does that mean that slips with flaps are prohibited in 172's?

[32a]

Sorry Hedley, I'm not biting. Suggest refering to aircraft operating instructions for your answer.

My point is to be careful making up your own configuration changes to your aircraft. The resulting aerodynamics could give you an unhealthy surprise.