2 pilot crew in a 1 pilot airplane
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Navajo Chief
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- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:31 pm
- Location: Northern B.C.
all multi engine aircraft in canada that are registered and operated commercially require 2 pilots....unless the pilot is single pilot quallified...therefore if it is registered commercially and you have a pcc you can log it...if it isn't or you don't have a pcc then you can't log it....all tc will do is check the registry to see if the ac in question in registered as a commercial or private aircraft...i had a friend fly fo on a navajo for a helicopter company moving crew and parts around....that machine was registered privately and none of the time counted....
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lowandslow
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Bede you are absolutly correct on this.
Years ago we let our new float pilots ride along on a flight when there was space and an empty return leg. It was great training under supervision. These pilots had their rating and the required training.
TC told us not to log the flights as training , which caused some discussion.They recognized the value they said, but if they allowed it there would be operators who would simply skip the formal training and use this type as a cost effective way to avoid real training. At the time I thought they were more than a little harsh, but unfotunately over the years I have come to agree with them. Flying an empty leg under supervision for a pilot ALREADY QUALIFIED AND HAVING ALREADY RECEIVED THE PROPER COMPANY TRAINING, is great experience for the new pilots.
But it is not training per se. And is no substitute for a proper training program.
Geez, I just read over what I wrote.....I am not from TC.
Years ago we let our new float pilots ride along on a flight when there was space and an empty return leg. It was great training under supervision. These pilots had their rating and the required training.
TC told us not to log the flights as training , which caused some discussion.They recognized the value they said, but if they allowed it there would be operators who would simply skip the formal training and use this type as a cost effective way to avoid real training. At the time I thought they were more than a little harsh, but unfotunately over the years I have come to agree with them. Flying an empty leg under supervision for a pilot ALREADY QUALIFIED AND HAVING ALREADY RECEIVED THE PROPER COMPANY TRAINING, is great experience for the new pilots.
But it is not training per se. And is no substitute for a proper training program.
Geez, I just read over what I wrote.....I am not from TC.
LOL... wow.trey kule wrote: But it is not training per se. And is no substitute for a proper training program.
Geez, I just read over what I wrote.....I am not from TC.
Anyways, here is my personal "take" on the situation.
Earlier, Bede said something about TC looking at pilot logbooks during a base inspection. To my knowledge, there is no requirement in the CARs to even have them at the base.
You can log whatever you want in your logbook. What is going to count towards a higher license is going to be the issue (okay, there are some other issues such as currancy and landings that are applicable to a 703 operation, but those should be tracked by the company).
I think we have posted this here before, but this is a good document to review.
General Aviation Advisory Circulars: The Crediting of co-pilot flight time experience for the issuance of an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL)
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/gener ... ac0503.htm
As far as dual time goes... it does tend to be a bit of a touchy subject. Checkouts are generally accepted for a few hours.
You have to realize that experience is good (however it is obtained) but what will constitute training towards company requirements is outlined in the Company Operations Manual-- and these repositioning flights will generally not count. Better to talk to TC Inspectors from Commercial and Business about that.
Hope this helps.
-Guy
Thanks for that link, i find it interesting it only mentions people with PPC's and not PCC"s though.
My question is if your company is certified to have have 2 crew operation on say a cessna caravan or a pilatus, what column do you log it under? Single Engine Dual? I guess i would have to make another column, i am just wondering what other people have done?
My question is if your company is certified to have have 2 crew operation on say a cessna caravan or a pilatus, what column do you log it under? Single Engine Dual? I guess i would have to make another column, i am just wondering what other people have done?
For those young and not so young men and women just starting out,
If you are lucky enough to sit right seat and gain some "experience",
I say, log it.
But log it in a way that is not illegal.
Take the furthest collum to the right in your log book and call it
"Experience" or "Fun" or "Cool stuff" or whatever, and log it there.
It will do a couple of thing for you,
a) Honesty is still the best policy, it will make you look good.
b) Though not logable time, as it has been said, it is experience. At your
first job interview 50 or so hours of line operations, should put you ahead of the next guy.
PS Bede, in the report about the Rainbow lake accident, other then taking up 170 lbs.
of weight, the co-pilot/dispatcher had nothing to do with
the crash.
If you are lucky enough to sit right seat and gain some "experience",
I say, log it.
But log it in a way that is not illegal.
Take the furthest collum to the right in your log book and call it
"Experience" or "Fun" or "Cool stuff" or whatever, and log it there.
It will do a couple of thing for you,
a) Honesty is still the best policy, it will make you look good.
b) Though not logable time, as it has been said, it is experience. At your
first job interview 50 or so hours of line operations, should put you ahead of the next guy.
PS Bede, in the report about the Rainbow lake accident, other then taking up 170 lbs.
of weight, the co-pilot/dispatcher had nothing to do with
the crash.
If you are licence for an aircraft class you can log dual on a right seat fly along. It just does not really count for much. From the AIM:
3.7.3 In-flight Instruction (Dual): Licensed Pilots
(a) The holder of a valid commercial or airline transport pilot licence may give in-flight instruction for familiarization, refresher and instrument flight training, provided the pilot receiving the instruction holds a valid pilot licence endorsed for the type or class of aircraft in the same category as the aircraft used, and the person providing the instrument flight training meets the requirements specified in CAR 425.21(7). This authority does not permit category conversion training, e.g. aeroplane to helicopter, gyroplane to aeroplane, etc.
(b) The flight time acquired under (a) may be credited to the pilot-in-command as pilot-in-command time, and as dual flight time to the pilot receiving the training.
(c) Not more than 3 hr of familiarization flight time acquired for any type or class of aircraft may be credited towards the flight time requirements for a higher type of licence.
Wahunga!
